2014 Off-Season Thread

[cima]

Re: 2014 Off-Season Thread

Cleveland also had several key players out for an extended time as well, so their record really isn't indicative of the talent that was on that team.

King is right, at this point, he has been a really impressive stat stuffer, however he hasn't lead the Wolves to anything significant and guys have definitely more with less. Garnett is the perfect example of this.

KG plays basketball on both ends and he was elite on defense. K Love (and Irving for that matter) only play on offense.

Look, I'm not trying to discredit anything here about Kyrie Irving. And I'm well aware K Love puts up great stats that he otherwise wouldn't if he is to come to Cleveland this year. But just because he's been in the league for 6 years shouldn't stick him with a loser label and that's because he has been on seriously God awful teams. Let's not pretend like we all have been watching tons of Timberwolves games over the years, but I've seen a few and he has never been in a good situation. Playing with LeBron would help him rid of the (in my opinion unfair) loser label.

[wwharton]

Re: 2014 Off-Season Thread

I wouldn't hesitate at all on trading Wiggins for Kevin Love, were talking about a HOF type of player the way he's been playing.

Love is a HOFer now? Was Bosh a HOFer before going to Miami? And if you think he was, do you still think he is (considering what his numbers looked like playing with James in a similar offensive role to what Love would have)?

And I totally get what your saying. But he does. That's the bottom line of his weakness. It happen in high school and college. Games where you wondered how he was the rated the number one player. His last college game was a great example of this. He scored 4 (or was it 8 points). It doesn't get bigger than March Madness.

That's why I was always afraid of the whole LeBron and him playing together. I just feel some players like him (Wiggins). Need to lose early in their career to make them hungry. But I might be totally wrong.

But I agree with the outlook... Do they want to win now.. or Win later. I think all the Cavs need at this point is Veteran big men (off the bench) and Ray Allen. I think that would be a great starting point for them.

edit: I would let them play it out first. I think Kyrie will be the one who has to change his game the most of all the players.

I still am careful to put that much weight on things players did in high school or college... again, good and bad. Ever since the NBA went to the "One and done" rule, the analysis on just about every wing player that went to school for 1 year and got drafted is "he can't shoot though"... yet we've seen quite a few of them develop into good shooters (including Lebron). I'm not saying the evaluation is worthless but I wouldn't put much weight in it at this point.

[BlueNGold]

Re: 2014 Off-Season Thread

This lineup competes for an 8th seed in the east, it's sad that that's considered tanking lol

Lin/Nash/Marshall
Bryant/Clarkson
Young/Kelly
Boozer/Randle/Davis
Hill/Sacre

Holy ****.

I can't wait to see this team get lit up.

[JODYE]

Re: 2014 Off-Season Thread

KG plays basketball on both ends and he was elite on defense. K Love (and Irving for that matter) only play on offense.

Look, I'm not trying to discredit anything here about Kyrie Irving. And I'm well aware K Love puts up great stats that he otherwise wouldn't if he is to come to Cleveland this year. But just because he's been in the league for 6 years shouldn't stick him with a loser label and that's because he has been on seriously God awful teams. Let's not pretend like we all have been watching tons of Timberwolves games over the years, but I've seen a few and he has never been in a good situation. Playing with LeBron would help him rid of the (in my opinion unfair) loser label.

So what exactly does he bring to that Cavs team that would put them over the top?

Let's first take into account that Love's stats are notably inflated because of being the #1 option on a bad team (Still convinced hes the perfect #3 option on a championship team) so his effect on the game offensively with Cleveland will be drastically reduced (ala Chris Bosh in Miami) and the guys they already have on the roster can fill the rest of the void that Love would potentially fill, which really only is rebounding. Varejao is a very capable rebounder, Thompson is, and Bennett as well.

So you potentially give up would could possibly be the most dymanic perimeter defensive combination in the league before even seeing them touch the floor for a guy who plays no defense and more than likely doesn't take you over the top as a sure fire Championship team? That would be foolish. Especially with how good Wiggins has looked in Summer League. You have to at the minimum, give them a full two months to see how they gel.

[wwharton]

Re: 2014 Off-Season Thread

KG plays basketball on both ends and he was elite on defense. K Love (and Irving for that matter) only play on offense.

Look, I'm not trying to discredit anything here about Kyrie Irving. And I'm well aware K Love puts up great stats that he otherwise wouldn't if he is to come to Cleveland this year. But just because he's been in the league for 6 years shouldn't stick him with a loser label and that's because he has been on seriously God awful teams. Let's not pretend like we all have been watching tons of Timberwolves games over the years, but I've seen a few and he has never been in a good situation. Playing with LeBron would help him rid of the (in my opinion unfair) loser label.

Though it's been mentioned, who has really pushed his lack of success as a reason to knock Love? I think that's a bit of an exaggeration, just like saying people are calling him old or "just" a stat stuffer.

[ex carrabba fan]

Re: 2014 Off-Season Thread

It's a fair knock on Love, as far as the regular season team success. Even if his teams have sucked, I mean look at those win loss records. So ugly. Even if he played in the east those teams wouldn't have made it.

However the second he gets on a team with the likes of LeBron and Irving, I would definitely label as instant title contender. That doesn't mean I want them to trade Wiggins though. I think the Cavs definitely have options.

[cima]

Re: 2014 Off-Season Thread

As far as being on terrible teams, you can say the same for Kyrie as well. The "he plays in the Western Conference" thing only goes so far when you're 6-7 years into your career, especially when considering there have been other players with similar or less talent than Love taking their teams to the playoffs in the West since he's been in the league.

I really question your ability to judge talent if you think teams have taken less than what Love has had to the playoffs in the WC. Who this year went to the playoffs in the WC that had less talent than Minnesota? Dallas? Nope. Memphis? Nope. Phoenix didn't even make it and they won 8 more games than Minnesota.

2012-13 is a wash because Love only played 18 games.

2011-12? Was he supposed to go to the playoffs that year? With rookie PG Ricky Rubio, second year pro Nikola Pekovic, Luke Ridnour, the immortal Michael Beasley, and superstar rookie Derrick Williams?

Or how about 2010-11 when he had basically the same team as 11-12 minus Ricky Rubio and Darko Milicic as their starting center?

You are seriously reaching big time if you think Love has ever had enough talent around him to make the playoffs period, let alone the Western Conference.

[cima]

Re: 2014 Off-Season Thread

So what exactly does he bring to that Cavs team that would put them over the top?

Let's first take into account that Love's stats are notably inflated because of being the #1 option on a bad team (Still convinced hes the perfect #3 option on a championship team) so his effect on the game offensively with Cleveland will be drastically reduced (ala Chris Bosh in Miami) and the guys they already have on the roster can fill the rest of the void that Love would potentially fill, which really only is rebounding. Varejao is a very capable rebounder, Thompson is, and Bennett as well.

So you potentially give up would could possibly be the most dymanic perimeter defensive combination in the league before even seeing them touch the floor for a guy who plays no defense and more than likely doesn't take you over the top as a sure fire Championship team? That would be foolish. Especially with how good Wiggins has looked in Summer League. You have to at the minimum, give them a full two months to see how they gel.

Whoa whoa now, I was ONLY talking about Love being labeled as a loser. I do NOT think Cleveland should trade Wiggins for him because they have to give up too much to get him. Irving/Wiggins/LeBron can go down as the most insanely athletic and elite 1-2-3 punch of all-time, if Wiggins reaches his potential.

I am totally against trading for Love because Cleveland sacrifices depth and cap flexibility, which Miami just showed is something you don't want to do anymore. They should absolutely not trade Wiggins.

I was just saying that Love would shed his loser label if he was traded to Cleveland and I just think the label is a bit unfair and I stated why in the post above.

[SPTO]

Re: 2014 Off-Season Thread

The thing with Love IMO is he's always struck me more as a stat compiler rather than a great player. Every crappy team needs SOMEONE to score. That's not always the best indicator of what kind of player he is. I mean, do you think Thadeus Young is a great player? I don't think so. To Love's credit though he's been very consistent with his game but it's basically a one man show over there in Minny. Can he learn to blend his game in with a bunch of up and comers and Lebron? It's hard to tell for sure and even if he does have success statistically will he have the mental fortitude to handle the grind of the playoffs?

Normally I am wary about putting in guys who've done it all for craptastic teams because more often than not they'll never reach the expectations that are placed on them when they're on a very good team. Of course there are exceptions like KG but he ALWAYS played an all-around game that could work anywhere. I don't really see that with Love.

[cima]

Re: 2014 Off-Season Thread

Though it's been mentioned, who has really pushed his lack of success as a reason to knock Love? I think that's a bit of an exaggeration, just like saying people are calling him old or "just" a stat stuffer.

95% of the internet lol. Who has called him old? Anyone calling him old is clueless, the dude is 25.

[ojandpizza]

Re: 2014 Off-Season Thread

Regardless of wether we believe Wiggins for Love is a good trade or not, Wiggins, Bennett, and a 1st is a HORRIBLE trade..

Not many players in the league are worth 3 first round picks, 2 of them number 1 overalls.. And Kevin Love damn sure isn't one of the few who is.


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[SteelersFreak]

Re: 2014 Off-Season Thread

Yeah, I definitely think you give the young guys some time to see what they can do.

But like I said, I understand the desperation aspect with the Cavs.

[Chrisksaint]

2014 Off-Season Thread

I don't think Love is a HOFer right now I just think he's on the right track, he's put up some amazing stats but I'm also a huge fan of his game which is what this discussion basically is.

The Bosh comparison idk, I feel Love is the better offensive player and rebounder but obviously not as good of a defender

[jeebs9]

Re: 2014 Off-Season Thread

Regardless of wether we believe Wiggins for Love is a good trade or not, Wiggins, Bennett, and a 1st is a HORRIBLE trade..

Not many players in the league are worth 3 first round picks, 2 of them number 1 overalls.. And Kevin Love damn sure isn't one of the few who is.


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That's basically how I feel. You want to see a crime in progress. That would be it.

[butchmcdoo]

Re: 2014 Off-Season Thread

Regardless of wether we believe Wiggins for Love is a good trade or not, Wiggins, Bennett, and a 1st is a HORRIBLE trade..

Not many players in the league are worth 3 first round picks, 2 of them number 1 overalls.. And Kevin Love damn sure isn't one of the few who is.


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I definitely see your point, but should we not take into account that one of the number 1 picks, Bennet, has not performed at the caliber of a first round pick and that the 1st round pick will probably be in the very late 20s? I feel like people are too focused on the titles "number 1 draft pick" and "first round pick", not on the players themselves.