MVP of the season so far?

[wwharton]

Re: MVP of the season so far?

This sentence, is my point almost to a T.

If Curry was indeed THAT valuable as a whole to the entire team, would he not be needed more when it matters? If his team is assisting him in affording the luxury to be on the bench when closing games, how can that player possibly be the most valuable player to his team across the league? You can't say that he is, because then you are creating a hypothetical statement implying that Curry was the entire reason that they were up by so much in the first place and that is impossible to do.

Just as you can't play the if/then game with removing those players, you can't play the if/then game with minutes played when discussing Curry. He didn't play. Harden did, because they needed him to, and we know the results that came because of it. Even when using Per 36 or per 100 Poss to adjust Curry's stats, Harden is superior.

First, this is an unfair discussion for you bc my argument isn't that Curry should be MVP. I wouldn't have had a problem with either person winning. I just simply don't agree with "What ifs" being the reason anyone wins or does not win.

But your question in bold still doesn't make sense really. If the team is up 30 going into the 4th quarter and he sits because of it (and this happens 18 times if I'm not mistaken), it really doesn't say anything at all about how much he contributed to being up 30, just that his 22 pts and 10 assists were coming in less minutes.

What you called impossible is exactly what I mentioned was impossible... however I don't get the feeling you accept the idea of it being impossible to say what the Warriors/Rockets would do without their best player too. If we get rid of the what ifs like you did in your last paragraph then we're also left with one team having 67 wins and the other having 56.

My point is we can go all day analyzing facts, throwing out hypotheticals, whatever. They were both worthy candidates, one won and the other didn't. From there I point back to Pack's original post on this.

[JODYE]

Re: MVP of the season so far?

So your argument is that your team has to suck to be valuable to it? Okay then.

So you're saying Houston sucked? If that is the conclusion you came to, that proves my point further.

[King_B_Mack]

Re: MVP of the season so far?

So you're saying Houston sucked? If that is the conclusion you came to, that proves my point further.

No, you're saying Houston sucked.

"If his team is assisting him in affording the luxury to be on the bench when closing games, how can that player possibly be the most valuable player to his team across the league?" So he's not valuable because his team isn't terrible enough to blow a double digit lead in the fourth quarter after he sits?

[Hockeynut99]

Re: MVP of the season so far?

I like to think Steph being a better defender plays a factor in the land slide MVP race.

[Hockeynut99]

Re: MVP of the season so far?

So a guy scoring 27 points a game makes them a #2 seed team?

[JODYE]

Re: MVP of the season so far?

No, you're saying Houston sucked.

"If his team is assisting him in affording the luxury to be on the bench when closing games, how can that player possibly be the most valuable player to his team across the league?" So he's not valuable because his team isn't terrible enough to blow a double digit lead in the fourth quarter after he sits?

That's not saying Houston sucked, that is saying Curry's supporting cast was that much better over the course of the season.

7th best bench in the league as opposed to the 9th worst.

Curry also played with another 20 point scorer, and Trevor Ariza was Houston's 2nd best player for a majority of the season. Yes, that Trevor Ariza. Houston on paper does not suck at all, but injuries forced them into a particular situation and Harden, being as incredibly valuable as he is, accounted for many deficiencies that were created because of those injuries while they were on the mend for 60-70% of the season.

I like to think Steph being a better defender plays a factor in the land slide MVP race.

This is also a misconception but the media created that "Harden is a terrible defender" thing so people still buy into it, even though from an individual win share and rating perspective Harden was equal or better statistically, and was missing his best rim protector for half the year. But you never heard about that.

[Hockeynut99]

Re: MVP of the season so far?

That's not saying Houston sucked, that is saying Curry's supporting cast was that much better over the course of the season.

7th best bench in the league as opposed to the 9th worst.

Curry also played with another 20 point scorer, and Trevor Ariza was Houston's 2nd best player for a majority of the season. Yes, that Trevor Ariza. Houston on paper does not suck at all, but injuries forced them into a particular situation and Harden, being as incredibly valuable as he is, accounted for many deficiencies that were created because of those injuries while they were on the mend for 60-70% of the season.



This is also a misconception but the media created that "Harden is a terrible defender" thing so people still buy into it, even though from a win share and rating perspective Harden was equal or better statistically, and was missing his best rim protector for half the year.

Haha OK. Yeah he is a
Better defender than Steph. :/

[Hockeynut99]

Re: MVP of the season so far?

It is true the Warriors have the better supporting cast. But if they didn't rise to the challenge. I am pretty sure Curry would have won the scoring title.

[JazzMan]

Re: MVP of the season so far?

Then why didn't he average 30 a night last season before his team was a 67 win juggernaut?

[Hockeynut99]

Re: MVP of the season so far?

Then why didn't he average 30 a night last season before his team was a 67 win juggernaut?

I like to think because he gets better every year. He did break his own 3 point recond this year.

[dsallupinyaarea]

Re: MVP of the season so far?

I'm pretty sure I read somewhere that the Warriors were outscored, for the season, when Curry was on the bench. Even if you factor in garbage time, it kind of throws a wrench in the supporting cast argument.

Plus, the leap from good team to great team is much harder than the leap from average team to good team. The whole Harden argument seems to be based entirely on a hypothetical and playing with the meaning of the word valuable.

I also think people tend to believe Harden does more just because he has the ball more, but that's an entirely different argument.