2016 NBA Offseason Thread

[ProfessaPackMan]

re: 2016 NBA Offseason Thread

By year 3-4, if you're not showing significant strides in your game each year, you basically are what you are this point.

Bradley Beal is one example of that. Obviously remaining healthy is top priority for him but aside from that, does anybody really see his game improving that much from what it is already?

[ojandpizza]

re: 2016 NBA Offseason Thread

The thing is, his handle shot or pass isn't really any worse than Jimmy's though. That's the only point I'm really getting at. If Jimmy was all those things at a much higher level then I'd be more for the trade.

He's a slasher, a lot like a DeRozan type. His handle wasn't too bad towards the end of the year either. Not in the game I went to at Memphis, or playing against the Cavs.

That's things that can improve. Jimmy, DeRozan, Kawhi, PG, they all saw major jumps in their careers. It's pretty typical for a wing player who initially doesn't have a great outside to take a few years to develop.




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[dsallupinyaarea]

re: 2016 NBA Offseason Thread

Are you categorizing Wiggins as a player who is objectively BAD?

Bad is probably strong but, honestly, how much have you watched of him? He's really not that good yet.

2nd option on a contender, who's saying that? Not sure about that one.

There's plenty of people that view him that way. When Towns started breaking out, the story was "they got their 1 and their 2" and I've always wondered, "when did they get their 2?"

[cima]

re: 2016 NBA Offseason Thread

Bad is probably strong but, honestly, how much have you watched of him? He's really not that good yet.






There's plenty of people that view him that way. When Towns started breaking out, the story was "they got their 1 and their 2" and I've always wondered, "when did they get their 2?"

Ah I see. Well I can agree with that notion down the road as he continues to progress, but I'm not gonna pretend that Minnesota is anywhere near a contender right now. I know a lot of people expect them to make the jump to the Playoffs next year but I'm highly skeptical for now.

[ojandpizza]

re: 2016 NBA Offseason Thread

Bad is probably strong but, honestly, how much have you watched of him? He's really not that good yet.






There's plenty of people that view him that way. When Towns started breaking out, the story was "they got their 1 and their 2" and I've always wondered, "when did they get their 2?"

Maybe he ends up being a 2, maybe he doesn't. But a guy who can efficiently get you 21 a night is what most teams have as their 2nd guy. Jimmy, DeRozan, etc again.


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[wwharton]

re: 2016 NBA Offseason Thread

Historically, how many players have gone from objectively bad their first 2 years to 2nd option on a contender (where folks are projecting Wiggins)? Serious question. Injuries aside.


What I'm getting at is, I feel people are still evaluating him as Andrew Wiggins the prospect when, after 2 years, we should start evaluating Andrew Wiggins the player.

I'm not sure this makes sense bc it takes some serious bias to call him "objectively bad" at this point.

But how about Kobe, Garnett (2nd year was pretty good tho), McGrady, Nash, Zach Randolph, Al Jefferson, Ron Artest, Paul George, etc, etc, etc.

By year 3-4, if you're not showing significant strides in your game each year, you basically are what you are this point.

Bradley Beal is one example of that. Obviously remaining healthy is top priority for him but aside from that, does anybody really see his game improving that much from what it is already?

Yeah, years 3 and 4 are usually the tellers.

[dsallupinyaarea]

re: 2016 NBA Offseason Thread

I'm not sure this makes sense bc it takes some serious bias to call him "objectively bad" at this point.

But how about Kobe, Garnett (2nd year was pretty good tho), McGrady, Nash, Zach Randolph, Al Jefferson, Ron Artest, Paul George, etc, etc, etc.

So, 8 guys (4 HOFers) in 20+ years of modern era drafting? Again, not saying it's impossible but just playing the odds, what's most likely to happen?


And again, this is grading on a curve. I don't think the guy will wash out of the league lol. I just don't see the ceiling that others see.


Another disclaimer: I'm WAY lower than most on wings that can't shoot.

[wwharton]

re: 2016 NBA Offseason Thread

So, 8 guys (4 HOFers) in 20+ years of modern era drafting? Again, not saying it's impossible but just playing the odds, what's most likely to happen?

Really? These are literally guys I thought of off the top of my head. What helped me think of them is that it generally is year 3 that a jump is made. I even think the rookie contracts were restructured with that in mind.

Either way, calling a 21 year old 20ppg scorer "objectively bad" is a stretch. Personally, I'd say making any objective judgement on a player of any sport after 2 years is a stretch too.

[jeremym480]

re: 2016 NBA Offseason Thread

What do you guys think the market is for Derrick Rose?

[ProfessaPackMan]

2016 Offseason Thread

Really? These are literally guys I thought of off the top of my head. What helped me think of them is that it generally is year 3 that a jump is made. I even think the rookie contracts were restructured with that in mind.



Either way, calling a 21 year old 20ppg scorer "objectively bad" is a stretch. Personally, I'd say making any objective judgement on a player of any sport after 2 years is a stretch too.

He did admit bad is wrong if you're still hung up on that.

What do you guys think the market is for Derrick Rose?

He's not a FA til next year when his contract comes off the books.

[cima]

re: 2016 NBA Offseason Thread

What do you guys think the market is for Derrick Rose?

Probably higher than we think. He's a $20 mil expiring contract for the Curry/Westbrook/Griffin/CP3 FA class (and possibly LeBron/Durant) so that combined with the salary cap jump may net a team a lot of room to sign multiple superstars.

Hell if I'm Chicago, I try and trade Jimmy Butler to clear cap room, let Rose expire, and try to nail it big in FA next year. I can see hesitance though given they've struggled to get huge FAs before.

[ojandpizza]

2016 Offseason Thread

What do you guys think the market is for Derrick Rose?

Probably about the same as the market was for Ed Monix.


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[ProfessaPackMan]

re: 2016 NBA Offseason Thread

Expiring contracts don't carry the same value as they used to with the cap going up the next 2 years(supposed to be more next year)and every team having money to spend.

Unless you're the Clippers.

[King_B_Mack]

re: 2016 NBA Offseason Thread

Probably higher than we think. He's a $20 mil expiring contract for the Curry/Westbrook/Griffin/CP3 FA class (and possibly LeBron/Durant) so that combined with the salary cap jump may net a team a lot of room to sign multiple superstars.

Hell if I'm Chicago, I try and trade Jimmy Butler to clear cap room, let Rose expire, and try to nail it big in FA next year. I can see hesitance though given they've struggled to get huge FAs before.

Yeah no thanks. Time to stop trying to land big free agents around here cause nobody is coming and as long as those two idiots are in the front office running the Bulls rep back into the ground with players/coaches, it's gonna be that way for a while.


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[23]

re: 2016 NBA Offseason Thread

Expiring contracts don't carry the same value as they used to with the cap going up the next 2 years(supposed to be more next year)and every team having money to spend.

Unless you're the Clippers.

They give away expirings along with picks and ask for nothing in return