The Finals: Cleveland Cavaliers vs. Golden St. Warriors Part 2

[dubcity]

Re: The Finals: Cleveland Cavaliers vs. Golden St. Warriors Part 2

I didn't even think there were that many no calls against the cavs in game 4. So it was weird that lue and lebron were complaining lol

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They were basing it on circumstantial evidence. LeBron drives to the rim as much anyone (Harden, etc), but he doesn't get as many trips to the foul line. Therefore he doesn't get as many deserved calls, agree or disagree. I feel like they were talking about the season overall, as opposed to just that specific game.

[CMH]

Re: The Finals: Cleveland Cavaliers vs. Golden St. Warriors Part 2

Thanks I'll edit. But I think idea is what I was trying to get across. Clark is probably going to be the one that sits.

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Still not understanding this at all.

In game 4 the Warriors had 13 active players. Green was one of them.

For Game 5, they will have 13 active players with the suspended Green being one of them.

How is anyone getting inactive? The 12 guys they had + Green are the same 12 guys + Green.

[CMH]

Re: The Finals: Cleveland Cavaliers vs. Golden St. Warriors Part 2

Drive-by comment since I'm not really understanding this discussion you guys are having, but the active roster limit is up to 13 these days (changed a few years ago). I think that link you've got there is from the early 2000s.

Steve Kerr and others are reporting the Warriors have a tough decision to make by inactivating someone because the suspended Green has to remain on the active roster.

I have no idea why they need to inactivate someone. There's something I'm missing because even Steve Kerr is saying it.

[ProfessaPackMan]

The Finals: Cleveland Cavaliers vs. Golden St. Warriors Part 2

The NBA’s suspension of Draymond Green for Game 5 of the NBA Finals for his hit to the groin of LeBron James has been the talk of the league since early Sunday afternoon. Green had been one flagrant foul point away from suspension since the Western Conference Finals, when he wasn’t suspended for a kick to the groin of Steven Adams. This time, the NBA couldn’t let it slide. Kiki Vandeweghe, the league’s Vice President of Basketball Operations and the man responsible for doling out this sort of punishment, said in an interview on NBA TV that Green and the Warriors had been warned privately by the league after the Adams incident.

"I had a conversation with the Warriors, and he was fully on notice regarding flailing and contact to the groin area, and he was obviously aware of his point total to that point prior to the incident."

Vandeweghe also explained that the decision was not made based on the stakes of the game. Obviously, it’s not ideal for the NBA if one of the most important players in the series, and possible Finals MVP, isn’t playing in a closeout game. But Green had been warned about these types of plays, which makes the suspension understandable this time.

"Of course it makes it tough, there’s no question. That weighs on your mind. But you can’t make an exception because of that. You have to assess each play as best you can, taking everything into account. What I have that referees don’t have is I have time. I have the interviews. I can go back and look at a lot of tape. I have many, many angles. I’ve probably seen this play 30 times or so. I spend a lot of time on this. We realize it’s a big game and nobody wants anybody suspended. But, again, this is a cumulative thing. This is one flagrant foul point that unfortunately triggered the suspension."

123456nutshots

[ojandpizza]

Re: The Finals: Cleveland Cavaliers vs. Golden St. Warriors Part 2

LeBron and Dray wouldn't even have had that encounter if the refs had called the game a little tighter. That anger just built and built.

Refs were **** the entire game. Every player out there was frustrated. Hopefully better from here on out.

If anything consistency. If they are going to call it close then call it close. If they're going to let them play then let them play.. Too much back and forth last game.

[VDusen04]

Re: The Finals: Cleveland Cavaliers vs. Golden St. Warriors Part 2

123456nutshots

Mentioning Green as a possible Finals MVP kind of got the imagination up and running. Obviously, he's not taking that award home now, but if he'd built his resume up strong enough to be undeniable, I would have cherished the awkward of a guy being barred from the arena only to storm the court in the post-game to take home his MVP.

[23]

Re: The Finals: Cleveland Cavaliers vs. Golden St. Warriors Part 2

Mentioning Green as a possible Finals MVP kind of got the imagination up and running. Obviously, he's not taking that award home now, but if he'd built his resume up strong enough to be undeniable, I would have cherished the awkward of a guy being barred from the arena only to storm the court in the post-game to take home his MVP.

Gives Curry a chance to take it so people can stop calling him a fake mvp

[bigeastbumrush]

Re: The Finals: Cleveland Cavaliers vs. Golden St. Warriors Part 2

Shut up Kiki.

Dude is really watching interviews to make his decisions?

[King_B_Mack]

Re: The Finals: Cleveland Cavaliers vs. Golden St. Warriors Part 2

What the **** does Draymond being warned about groin hits have to do with this play review? What do 'the interviews' have to do with the play? If they don't look at past actions and can't act based on 'intent' like was said when we were discussing the suspension angle back during the Adams situation, then why does any of that matter to THIS play?

And how the hell does Dellavedova go through all the playoffs last year with all the **** he pulled not getting any retroactive flagrants tallied based on 'too many questionable plays happening in one postseason,' but here the league comes with this mess based on Draymond having too many questionable plays. League has done themselves no favors with this as it once again speaks to what's been their biggest problem for YEARS. Consistency.

[ojandpizza]

Re: The Finals: Cleveland Cavaliers vs. Golden St. Warriors Part 2

Dellevedova did get upgraded to a tech for the Gibson play?

Other than that, I'm not sure what other players were worthy of anything extra.


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[VDusen04]

Re: The Finals: Cleveland Cavaliers vs. Golden St. Warriors Part 2

Shut up Kiki.

Dude is really watching interviews to make his decisions?

VanDeWeghe said interviews were a part of the process, not the process. A significant part of his job is to delve deeply into these situations for a living, which includes observing the play ad nauseum from any and all angles and yes, probably interviewing the officials involved with the play as well as any other characters that could help him make an informed decision.

What the **** does Draymond being warned about groin hits have to do with this play review? What do 'the interviews' have to do with the play? If they don't look at past actions and can't act based on 'intent' like was said when we were discussing the suspension angle back during the Adams situation, then why does any of that matter to THIS play?

And how the hell does Dellavedova go through all the playoffs last year with all the **** he pulled not getting any retroactive flagrants tallied based on 'too many questionable plays happening in one postseason,' but here the league comes with this mess based on Draymond having too many questionable plays. League has done themselves no favors with this as it once again speaks to what's been their biggest problem for YEARS. Consistency.

I think the whole "intent doesn't matter" angle was taken out of context. I think the point that was being made during the Steven Adams controversy was that malicious intent is not necessarily needed to assess a flagrant 1 or even a flagrant 2.

However, clear intent can influence punishment if it appears a player was attempting to commit or did commit a malicious and unsportsmanlike physical act.

For instance, hypothetically, there could be 1) Accidentally poking someone in the eye through typical basketball play 2) Appearing to purposely motion your arm into a player's eye as a means to inflict injury 3) Appearing to purposely jab toward someone's eye but missing the target and 4) Recklessly and violently swinging one's arm about for no reason, culminating in an accidental yet still reckless eye poke.

In that case, the first example is likely nothing more than a common foul due to a lack of intent and recklessness. Sometimes things just happen in basketball. The next three would likely all have varying cases for flagrant or technical assessments based off of factors ranging from recklessness, excessive contact, and/or unsportsmanlike behavior/intent/infliction.

As for Matthew Dellavedova, I asked this question earlier but it was lost in the shuffle: With sincerity, which plays should he have received a flagrant for last postseason? I honestly don't recall all of the issues. The only ones I could think of were the Taj Gibson leg lock (that he was T'd up for) and diving for a loose ball.

[Cavsfan4life]

Re: The Finals: Cleveland Cavaliers vs. Golden St. Warriors Part 2

Yea outside of the Delly figure 4 leg lock, he really didnt do anything dirty last playoffs. The Hawks series gets brought up when I talk to Hawk fans, Delly diving for a loose ball isnt dirty, and the Horford situation was all on Horford.

The difference between Delly and Green is simple, Delly, outside of the Delly figure 4 leg lock, was all basketball plays. Green flails his arms and legs after any contact and its forced imo, how often do you see guys kicking like the Rockettes lol.

[23]

Re: The Finals: Cleveland Cavaliers vs. Golden St. Warriors Part 2

I don't even care about their reasoning.

It's mixed up either way... You let the Iggy gonads shots go but not this trash?

As King just said our biggest problem is inconsistency. The game itself was so bad the refs lost complete control for a moment, and now this.

I know their position was impossible but he seems to have done this because of some pressure to do something.

[Cavsfan4life]

Re: The Finals: Cleveland Cavaliers vs. Golden St. Warriors Part 2

I don't even care about their reasoning.

It's mixed up either way... You let the Iggy gonads shots go but not this trash?

As King just said our biggest problem is inconsistency. The game itself was so bad the refs lost complete control for a moment, and now this.

I know their position was impossible but he seems to have done this because of some pressure to do something.

Why even compare those 2 situations though? Delly was going for the ball, and had incidental contact. Green retaliated after LBJ walked over, we know the league always gets the 2nd guy, even if the 1st guy was just as guilty.

League should do a whole ref 101 course, because illegal picks, travels, and just plain consistency has been thrown out the window.

[23]

Re: The Finals: Cleveland Cavaliers vs. Golden St. Warriors Part 2

Why even compare those 2 situations though? Delly was going for the ball, and had incidental contact. Green retaliated after LBJ walked over, we know the league always gets the 2nd guy, even if the 1st guy was just as guilty.

League should do a whole ref 101 course, because illegal picks, travels, and just plain consistency has been thrown out the window.

Inconsistency is the point I'm making.

They have that bad.