2016-17 NBA MVP

[ProfessaPackMan]

There's 4 guys in contention but with only 2 weeks left in the season before playoffs start, it's really looking like only 3 have better than 25% chance of winning it.

Who ya got and why?

[23]

Re: 2016-17 NBA MVP

Lebron James Harden.

[areobee401]

Re: 2016-17 NBA MVP

Russell Westbrook because I am a card carrying member of the James Harden Haters Club.

[ojandpizza]

Re: 2016-17 NBA MVP

Lavar Ball


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[ojandpizza]

Re: 2016-17 NBA MVP

Before the Cavs fell flat on their face I would have had LeBron at the 2nd spot. But as of now..

Westbrook
Harden
LeBron
Kawhi


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[wwharton]

Re: 2016-17 NBA MVP

Wish I saw this thread 5 mins ago, lol.

Can you guys push new responders (as they come) in the other thread over here?

[ProfessaPackMan]

Re: 2016-17 NBA MVP

People flip flop on how much they want team success to matter in the voting.

One year, it shouldn't hold THAT much weight and the next year, it should hold THAT much weight. If I had to give it a percentage, personally it would be....no more than 25-35%(give or take in a perfect world).

[ojandpizza]

Re: 2016-17 NBA MVP

Never like the arguments about what a team would look like without player X as a reason for MVP. The discussion is always about the best player on a team so the team is likely built around them... so what happens when that player can't play is as much, if not more, a result of the potential of the players around him and/or coaching.



I also don't like arguments based on what players/teams are doing in comparison to what was expected before the season. That puts too much weight on personal predictions. Even if they're based on industry predictions, actual results could just mean people didn't know what they were talking about, rather than a player deserving an MVP award because they proved them wrong.



I'm still in the Harden camp. Say what you want about MD's "system", Harden is shining in it, and as a result, his team is very successful. If that was the result of every PG in MD's system he wouldn't be in Houston right now because he wouldn't have been let go at the many other stops he's been.



I'm impressed with how the team has been built around Westbrook and how he's shined in it as well. But the results aren't close to the same so is that just the personnel? Or maybe it should be tweaked for that team to have more success? I don't know, but the question that a system built for Westbrook to go HAM may only provide average team success is enough for him to drop to 2nd in the MVP race, considering what Harden is doing.



With all that said, I'm warming up by the day on Leonard deserving serious consideration.

But the results ARE close to the same. This could be a difference in a 3 seed vs a 5 seed. Right now they are like 8 games apart, it's not a large gap. Both teams 2nd in their division.

The teams being built around the player argument only aids to Westbrook's case. He accounts for a larger portion of his teams assists, points, rebounds, while playing less minutes, and his on court performance raises the teams level of play more. With Harden on the bench Houston is +3.9 and when he's on the court +7.7, when Russ sits OKC is -8.9 and when he's on the court +4.8. So Harden's increase to the impact of the team is +3.8 and Russ's is +13.7.

I don't think it's necessarily about the player not being on the team, though than can show value in terms of how replaceable you are. (A stat that Russ leads the league in I might add). But it's more so what's around the player. Everything for Harden got easier this season. Russ loses KD and Ibaka and he responds by pushing for a top 5 seed, having a top 3 assist percentage season of all time, leading the league in scoring, and averaging a triple double. They're actually only going to lose a handful less games than they did last year, and unless we're pushing that credit on to Oladipo I think we know what's kept them afloat.

Well said. No matter what team success should always be a factor.

Lots of buzzwords are being thrown out. "Never done before in history" "no former or current all star"

None of that stuff has ever been a factor in determining the award.

Frankly if you're really dominating the league then team record should reflect that.


2017

So the award should go to the 1 seed every year then? Regardless.

Nobody even arguing for Westbrook is saying team success isn't a factor, just not putting team performance as THE deciding factor. It plays a role, if Russ was barely making the playoffs or missing them completely there wouldn't be an argument.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[23]

Re: 2016-17 NBA MVP

Doesn't have to go to the 1 seed everytime but they'd have a stronger case evey year for consideration than a 6th seeded team player.

[dubcity]

Re: 2016-17 NBA MVP

More wins and a way, way more efficient scorer. Only real statistical argument for Westbrook is his advantage in rebounds, which, meh.

[ojandpizza]

Re: 2016-17 NBA MVP

More wins and a way, way more efficient scorer. Only real statistical argument for Westbrook is his advantage in rebounds, which, meh.

Efficiency is actually fairly close. Both well under LeBron and a little under Kawhi though. But Harden is above Westbrook.

Russ also has PER, OBPM, BPM, VORP. Number 1 in the league in all of them.

I think it's more along the lines of the only real statistical argument for Harden is wins and win shares.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[dubcity]

Re: 2016-17 NBA MVP

Efficiency is actually fairly close. Both well under LeBron and a little under Kawhi though. But Harden is above Westbrook.

Russ also has PER, OBPM, BPM, VORP. Number 1 in the league in all of them.

I think it's more along the lines of the only real statistical argument for Harden is wins and win shares.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Well, my definition of scoring efficiency is pretty simple. Westbrook is taking 24 shots to score 32 PPG. Harden is taking 19 to score 29. Westbrook has taken like 400 more shots the Harden, and has 300 more missed FGs.

[ojandpizza]

Re: 2016-17 NBA MVP

Well, my definition of scoring efficiency is pretty simple. Westbrook is taking 24 shots to score 32 PPG. Harden is taking 19 to score 29. Westbrook has taken like 400 more shots the Harden, and has 300 more missed FGs.

That's fair. I was just looking at the percentages, Harden has him beat by a little in each but not by much. I guess a little in each adds up to a large level when it's all combined though. Harden's overall output will actually end up being similar to Curry last year, despite Curry's percentages being off the charts. I guess the free throws make up the ground in that comparison. Impressive either way.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[BleacherBum2310]

Re: 2016-17 NBA MVP

I would go Harden, Kawhi, Westbrook, Lebron.

though it has been really fun to have a loaded mvp field.

[The 24th Letter]

Re: 2016-17 NBA MVP

Seeing all these reasons as to why RWB should be disqualified make me wonder why Kawhi isn't the consensus....

Wins: check
Efficiency: check

Stats...Hardens averages are clearly better. but the weight they have seems to shift based on the conversation....

Explanation?