2017 Western Conference Playoffs - 1st Round Discussion Thread

[Vni]

Re: 2017 Western Conference Playoffs - 1st Round Discussion Thread

Just look at Lebron 2 years ago without Kyrie and Love. Effeciency wasn't pretty either. That's just the reality of things when you have a superstar alone without much else offensive talent. Theses guys go to work and coudn't care less for pretty stats.

I thought game two was gonna be competitive and it was. Haven't watched the game but I'am hoping Adams can be more impactful than that, he's a talented big guy. But if Westbrook is running out of gas after this long trip dub season it's over.

[Yeah...THAT Guy]

Re: 2017 Western Conference Playoffs - 1st Round Discussion Thread

What's funny is, if Westbrook won with Harden's line, we'd be talking about the 41% shooting and 7 turnovers right now instead of how 'efficient' he was....like how it's been all year after a big Russ game.

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Come on man...Harden had 35 points on 17 attempts. That would be among Westbrook's most efficient scoring games of the year.

The turnovers were indeed a mess though. They were some pretty bad ones too.


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[Vni]

Re: 2017 Western Conference Playoffs - 1st Round Discussion Thread

One day Harden is gonna pull a 14/37 84 points.

[The 24th Letter]

Re: 2017 Western Conference Playoffs - 1st Round Discussion Thread

Come on man...Harden had 35 points on 17 attempts. That would be among Westbrook's most efficient scoring games of the year.

The turnovers were indeed a mess though. They were some pretty bad ones too.


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because he shot what, 20 FTs? ...He still shot horribly, so it's like, we move on to the next category for him...feels like we're picking and choosing what to emphasize as far as stats.

Check the conversation that occurred after RWB had a 50 point game on 50 % shooting in comparison.

I'm just saying, RWBs 50 points/ trip dub doesn't wow me or anything, so I'm definitely not co-signing his drunk 4th quarter, but Harden being the model of efficiency in comparison doesn't sit well with me.

All that said, I'm a lot like Vni, I thought it was insane we were even discussing efficiency back when LBJ was taking way more than his usual amount of shots in the finals. Pretty stats take a back seat to winning in the playoffs for me.

[dsallupinyaarea]

Re: 2017 Western Conference Playoffs - 1st Round Discussion Thread

RWB was wylin in ways I've never seen before last night. One possession he just barreled into 3 dudes for a hopeless layup. He could have had Olympic teammates and it wouldn't have mattered. He just blacked out.

[Yeah...THAT Guy]

Re: 2017 Western Conference Playoffs - 1st Round Discussion Thread

because he shot what, 20 FTs? ...He still shot horribly, so it's like, we move on to the next category for him...feels like we're picking and choosing what to emphasize as far as stats.

Check the conversation that occurred after RWB had a 50 point game on 50 % shooting in comparison.

I'm just saying, RWBs 50 points/ trip dub doesn't wow me or anything, so I'm definitely not co-signing his drunk 4th quarter, but Harden being the model of efficiency in comparison doesn't sit well with me.

All that said, I'm a lot like Vni, I thought it was insane we were even discussing efficiency back when LBJ was taking way more than his usual amount of shots in the finals. Pretty stats take a back seat to winning in the playoffs for me.

Yeah, shooting 20 free throws in a game is a good thing. Harden isn't the model of efficiency, that would probably be Steph, but he's pretty damn close. Westbrook is league average. Westbrook had basically the same number of free throws as well.

Westbrook with 18 FTs: 50.1% TS%
Harden with 20 FTs: 67.8% TS%

I don't know when it became considered a bad thing to get to the free throw line. It's probably the best thing an offensive player can do. Getting 18 FTs like Westbrook did is a good thing. Chucking up 43 shots, with roughly half of them having a 0% chance of going in, is a bad thing.


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[ProfessaPackMan]

Re: 2017 Western Conference Playoffs - 1st Round Discussion Thread

because he shot what, 20 FTs? ...He still shot horribly, so it's like, we move on to the next category for him...feels like we're picking and choosing what to emphasize as far as stats.

Check the conversation that occurred after RWB had a 50 point game on 50 % shooting in comparison.

I'm just saying, RWBs 50 points/ trip dub doesn't wow me or anything, so I'm definitely not co-signing his drunk 4th quarter, but Harden being the model of efficiency in comparison doesn't sit well with me.

All that said, I'm a lot like Vni, I thought it was insane we were even discussing efficiency back when LBJ was taking way more than his usual amount of shots in the finals. Pretty stats take a back seat to winning in the playoffs for me.

Getting the W should be the only thing that matters in the playoffs. I could give a damn if someone shot 100% from the field or 10% from the field, just as long as they get the 4 wins needed to advance. That's the only number that should matter for any player/team in the playoffs.

For as great of a regular season Westbrook had, I could give two ****s about playoff triple doubles because they haven't resulted in anything except for the fact that OKC is 2 games away from going fishing.

[dsallupinyaarea]

Re: 2017 Western Conference Playoffs - 1st Round Discussion Thread

X points on Y shots is a bit misleading because a drawn shooting foul isn't a shot but it's still a possession used. It'd be more accurate to use X points on Y possessions used and I'm sure Harden still blows Russ out the water. You can't just dismiss getting to the FT line because, outside of dunks/layups and maaaaaaaaaaybe corner 3s, it's still the most efficient use of a possession.




As an aside, I think lots of ppl excuse RWB's play because he's fun to watch. That's cool, after all this is entertainment but we don't have to lie. He in no way helped his team win in the 4Q last night. His teammates are not that bad.

[ProfessaPackMan]

Re: 2017 Western Conference Playoffs - 1st Round Discussion Thread

Yeah, shooting 20 free throws in a game is a good thing. Harden isn't the model of efficiency, that would probably be Steph, but he's pretty damn close. Westbrook is league average. Westbrook had basically the same number of free throws as well.

Westbrook with 18 FTs: 50.1% TS%
Harden with 20 FTs: 67.8% TS%

I don't know when it became considered a bad thing to get to the free throw line. It's probably the best thing an offensive player can do. Getting 18 FTs like Westbrook did is a good thing. Chucking up 43 shots, with roughly half of them having a 0% chance of going in, is a bad thing.


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I certainly remember quite a few folks here that used to get on Harden for HOW he was getting his FTs. They were basically calling them cheap because the OFFICIALS were letting him draw fouls on that rip move he does while driving from the basket. Go back and look at the post history from previous game threads because those posts aren't hard to find.

To me, the FT argument is like the Rebound argument that people use on Westbrook because his TEAMMATES don't want to grab the rebound yet people **** on Westbrook for grabbing them. Giving Harden **** about his FT attempts is pointless too because he's not the one calling fouls on his attempts, no matter how weak some of the calls are. It goes both ways.

[Vni]

Re: 2017 Western Conference Playoffs - 1st Round Discussion Thread

I'm a lot like Vni

Let's pump the brakes here a little bit.

[ProfessaPackMan]

2017 Western Conference Playoffs - 1st Round Discussion Thread

X points on Y shots is a bit misleading because a drawn shooting foul isn't a shot but it's still a possession used. It'd be more accurate to use X points on Y possessions used and I'm sure Harden still blows Russ out the water. You can't just dismiss getting to the FT line because, outside of dunks/layups and maaaaaaaaaaybe corner 3s, it's still the most efficient use of a possession.









As an aside, I think lots of ppl excuse RWB's play because he's fun to watch. That's cool, after all this is entertainment but we don't have to lie. He in no way helped his team win in the 4Q last night. His teammates are not that bad.

He shot like **** in the 4th, made terrible decisions in the 4th and they lost. Just like they did in Game 1.

Now the excuse is gone, lol

[The 24th Letter]

Re: 2017 Western Conference Playoffs - 1st Round Discussion Thread

Yeah, shooting 20 free throws in a game is a good thing. Harden isn't the model of efficiency, that would probably be Steph, but he's pretty damn close. Westbrook is league average. Westbrook had basically the same number of free throws as well.

Westbrook with 18 FTs: 50.1% TS%
Harden with 20 FTs: 67.8% TS%

I don't know when it became considered a bad thing to get to the free throw line. It's probably the best thing an offensive player can do. Getting 18 FTs like Westbrook did is a good thing. Chucking up 43 shots, with roughly half of them having a 0% chance of going in, is a bad thing.


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Getting to the line is a great thing, never meant to suggest otherwise. If RWB got around the same amount, how many shots does that let him off the hook for since it absolves Harden of shooting poorly? That's why this stuff is an odd way to quantify performance for me...

[dsallupinyaarea]

Re: 2017 Western Conference Playoffs - 1st Round Discussion Thread

Getting to the line is a great thing, never meant to suggest otherwise. If RWB got around the same amount, how many shots does that let him off the hook for since it absolves Harden of shooting poorly? That's why this stuff is an odd way to quantify performance for me...

They got to the line at similar rates but Russ shot the ball 26 more times. One guy realized his shot wasn't falling and found other ways to help his team win, the other just kept ramming his head against the wall. I think that's why people aren't coming down on Harden, he changed gears.

[The 24th Letter]

Re: 2017 Western Conference Playoffs - 1st Round Discussion Thread

They got to the line at similar rates but Russ shot the ball 26 more times. One guy realized his shot wasn't falling and found other ways to help his team win, the other just kept ramming his head against the wall. I think that's why people aren't coming down on Harden, he changed gears.

So then it comes down to if you think any on OKCs bench is capable of having the similar impact Gordon, Beverly and Lou had with Harden on the bench....because that's a big part of the reason he was allowed to change gears. No, that's not saying Russ teammates are D Leaguers.....but I cant see Christian, Dipo and Jeremi Grant doing that with RWB on the bench....maybe that's where we disagree....

[dsallupinyaarea]

Re: 2017 Western Conference Playoffs - 1st Round Discussion Thread

So then it comes down to if you think any on OKCs bench is capable of having the similar impact Gordon, Beverly and Lou had with Harden on the bench....because that's a big part of the reason he was allowed to change gears. No, that's not saying Russ teammates are D Leaguers.....but I cant see Christian, Dipo and Jeremi Grant doing that with RWB on the bench....maybe that's where we disagree....

At this point in the season, you're right, it's probably too late. There's another discussion about what an entire season of standing around and watching Russ do whatever he wants has done for the development of the rest of that roster but it's way off topic.


No one was saying Harden's supporting cast was this good last September and I think them flourishing has a lot to do with the fact that he, ya know, passes the ball to them.