2017 Offseason Thread

[jeremym480]

Re: 2017 Offseason Thread

I knew what was up when that report about Cavs players telling Jimmy Butler not to come to Cleveland came out.

You got a team with Lebron James, that's a guarantee NBA Finals trip every year, and it's players telling you NOT to come? They know what's up with next year and now Kyrie has as well.

Golden State got the whole league shook. Like they're 50 Cent and the rest of the NBA is Ja Rule back in 2002.

What sucks for Bulls fans is that Kyrie was probably the one to tell Butler not to force his way to Cleveland because he wanted to join Butler in Chicago next offseason. That's speculation, but if that was the case (which I think it was since Minnesota is on his list) then GarPax really screwed up.

[Hassan Darkside]

Re: 2017 Offseason Thread

Perhaps pertinent to this convo is someone on Reddit with a lot of time on their hands estimated how valuable LeBron is to the Cavs (Spoilered for Length):

Spoiler

People were interested in seeing how I came up with the value Lebron brings to the Cavs, Dan Gilbert, and Downtown Cleveland as a whole. I've decided to make this thread so those that were interested could see how I arrived at the valuation.

A few days ago an interesting thread arose accusing Lebron of handicapping the Cavs this offseason. Because of his contract demands for his friends, the Cavs could not make many offseason moves. Further, they're having to pay tens of millions in luxury tax just to make this man happy. This prompted u/jushin33 to ask:

Has anyone looked at how much value Cavs would lose if Lebron left vs the tax savings?

Why is Dan Gilbert so willing to pay out the nose in luxury taxes rather than let Lebron walk and pocket the savings? Surely he's not worth it at this point, right?
Let’s begin by looking at attendance before we get into the financial aspect. How many more faces travel to Quicken Loans Arena to see the King?

• Attendance prior to return: 17,329 Return: 20,562 2017: 20,562

Given 41 home games, this is 132,553 more people coming in yearly compared to the most recent season without him.
With playoffs that is at LEAST another 164,496 people whose offseason has not come early provided there is a minimum 8 playoff home games. To get this number I accounted for the fact that QLA would have a patronage of 0 because the team has not made the playoffs without Lebron in the last 20 years, so each home game is an increase by 20,562.
Interesting to note, Quicken Loans Arena max capacity is, you’ve guessed it, 20,562 people. The arena has been sold out every game since Lebron’s return.
Now let's look at revenue:

• Year before: $145M Return: $149M 2017: $233M

I’m going to say 2015 was an outlier year. Lebron announced his return in July, 3 months before the NBA season began. The organization may have needed time to adjust to the sudden good fortune. In 2016, after having Lebron for a full regular and offseason, the team took advantage of his prowess, posting a revenue of $191M.
A lot of people asked about playoff revenue. The Cavaliers make an average of $81 per fan at full capacity during the regular season. Assuming a sweep each round, we get 8 hosted home games per post season. This gives us $13,324,176 a year in revenue brought in SOLELY FROM HAVING LEBRON ON THE TEAM. He’s been a lock to make the finals every year and, for a team that suffered four straight years of zero playoff games, this is literally money they would not see without him.

The Cavaliers had an operating loss of 40m in the 2017 season. I should note that this is the only loss the team has seen since drafting Lebron. This is wholly attributed to the dramatic increase in player expenses this year. In 2016 the team spent 87M on players. In 2017, this number rose to a whopping $131M. Before that, the Cavaliers went from an average operating income of $10m a year without Lebron, to $22.5M a year between 2015-2016. This is interesting to note because, given these figures, the team’s actual operating hit from adding Lebron drops to around $16M.

Mr. Gilbert has suffered a net loss from re-signing Lebron of $16M…so far. Let’s see if he makes it back into the black.
The Cavalier’s player expense hit is a sight to behold. Luxury tax ain’t no joke. However, after this season, the Cavaliers have a lot of salaries coming off the books and will only have $80-90M in owed player expenses. Were Dan Gilbert to resign Lebron, find cheaper talent, and maintain a revenue stream of, let’s say $200M to be conservative, he would make out like a bandit. Lebron would demand a salary higher than Curry’s and Harden’s, yes, but the team also has multiple deals coming in that would offset this. Goodyear, I believe, just signed on a $10m/year logo placement and the local tv deal of ten years at $26m a year ended this past season and is expected to at least double when the new deal is signed. All of that is in the future, however. Let’s look at what Lebron has already brought him.

Edit: Some people are taking issue with his impact on the valuation of the team as a whole. Whether it be the Clippers sale or revenue sharing. It was just a quick thing I noticed while putting this together and thought it would be interesting to add. Has no effect on the amount of revenue Lebron generates yearly. Dude brings in bank. I'll still leave it below, though.
Cavs value year before return: 515M Year of: 915M 2017: $1.2B
Wow. Dan Gilbert’s networth is $5.1B. The team he purchased at $375M has ballooned to become an asset worth $1.2B.

Basketball operations alone? Donajello, are you saying that Lebron has generated even MORE wealth for Dan Gilbert? Short answer: yes. Long answer: …you should probably sit down for this.

With foot traffic in downtown Cleveland skyrocketing with everyone coming to watch Lebron play, it is only natural that local businesses would reap the rewards. Dan Gilbert is the largest solo investor into the downtown Cleveland economy. He has invested more than $1B into the area and is the owner of 12 local businesses. This includes clubs, bars, and restaurants – all things people look for after a high-octane game. Bar owners in the area, ranging from small to large, have seen an increase in revenue of 30-200% on game nights. Demand for local hotel rooms have risen 8.6% since Lebron’s return. Lebron’s presence “increased the number of restaurants within 1 mile of a stadium by about 12.8% and the number of eating and drinking establishments by about 13.7%” to meet demand per a Harvard study. Employment in the hospitality industry in increased 9.9% upon the King’s return.

How much is all this worth? A study funded by the city of Cleveland along with the Cavaliers that was conducted by The Plain Dealer estimated in 2010 that Lebron James was key to bringing $135 per additional person downtown to see a home game. This includes parking, dinners, occasional hotels, and other expenses. That’s about $600k a night and $18,265,500 a year. The study also estimated that the downtown area sees an increase in foot traffic of 105,000 during playoffs. That gives us $113,400,000 over 8 home games. Note: the original estimate in the study of $180 included ticket prices. I’ve removed the $45 average ticket price because we are solely looking at revenue outside of the stadium. Their number did NOT include concession spending.

TL;DR: Dan Gilbert suffered a $40m loss, $27m of that coming from luxury taxes last season. Lebron increased team revenue by $88M from the highest grossing year without him to today. Outside of the stadium Lebron is responsible for $18,265,500 in spending during the season in downtown Cleveland, and $113,400,000 during playoffs. Dan Gilbert owns the Cavaliers and is the largest investor into downtown Cleveland to the tune of over $1B and 12 businesses.
Lebron has brought in about $219,665,500 a year just by coming back home.

Why would Dan Gilbert and the organization hop, jump, and skip to please Lebron, even to the point of paying exorbitant luxury taxes to sign his friends? Well, the proof is in the numbers. No king has been this profitable since Midas.
Edit 2: Lebron has even brought me gold. Is there anything this man cannot do? Seriously, thank you kind stranger.
Going to quickly clarify a few common questions. (Like 100 folks asked the same things)

1. The City of Cleveland reported an increase in traffic to the downtown area of 105,000 PER DAY A HOME PLAYOFF GAME WAS PLAYED. $135 * (105,000*8) for the lowest estimate.
2. $135 doesnt mean every person literally spent $135 per night. The city took their increased revenue and divided by the increased traffic on game nights.
3. No Dan Gilbert doesn't make every penny of the 131M/year Lebron brings to the downtown area... However, businesses saw an average yearly increase in revenue ranging from 30% to 200% depending on their size, much of this coming during the period of playoffs. Gilbert owns billions worth of businesses in the area, revenue of those businesses increased as a direct result of the increased spending.
4. The Clippers sold for $2B. Thanks, I get it. Lebron isn't responsible for ALL of the 1.2B valuation, but he does add to it. However, that has ZERO impact on the revenue he brings in from people who come to see him play, which is my main concern. No one travels to Cleveland because they heard the Clippers were sold. C'mon now.

"TL;DR: Dan Gilbert suffered a $40m loss, $27m of that coming from luxury taxes last season. Lebron increased team revenue by $88M from the highest grossing year without him to today. Outside of the stadium Lebron is responsible for $18,265,500 in spending during the season in downtown Cleveland, and $113,400,000 during playoffs. Dan Gilbert owns the Cavaliers and is the largest investor into downtown Cleveland to the tune of over $1B and 12 businesses.
Lebron has brought in about $219,665,500 a year just by coming back home.

Why would Dan Gilbert and the organization hop, jump, and skip to please Lebron, even to the point of paying exorbitant luxury taxes to sign his friends? Well, the proof is in the numbers. No king has been this profitable since Midas."

[ProfessaPackMan]

Re: 2017 Offseason Thread

The city of Cleveland got their first professional sports championship in 50+ years.

They'll take mediocre teams/attendance if that's was the payoff for finally winning one, especially in the fashion they got it.

[jeebs9]

Re: 2017 Offseason Thread

Maybe....now just hear me out. Maybe he's tired of being LeBron's trash teammate when they lose and then an after thought to Bron when they win. Just throwing that out there.


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This is the only thing I could think of myself. But I don't know where these kind of thoughts can come from. Because the other side of this is basically going back to losing. If he's traded to the Knicks they ****ing suck. Heat lose too much even though Spo got them to the 9th spot. Spurs make sense... But what do they have to trade.

I'm confused.... I seriously need a drink. Like someone said already. The only person who benfits from this trade are the Warriors.

[ProfessaPackMan]

Re: 2017 Offseason Thread

Perhaps pertinent to this convo is someone on Reddit with a lot of time on their hands estimated how valuable LeBron is to the Cavs (Spoilered for Length):

Spoiler

"TL;DR: Dan Gilbert suffered a $40m loss, $27m of that coming from luxury taxes last season. Lebron increased team revenue by $88M from the highest grossing year without him to today. Outside of the stadium Lebron is responsible for $18,265,500 in spending during the season in downtown Cleveland, and $113,400,000 during playoffs. Dan Gilbert owns the Cavaliers and is the largest investor into downtown Cleveland to the tune of over $1B and 12 businesses.
Lebron has brought in about $219,665,500 a year just by coming back home.

Why would Dan Gilbert and the organization hop, jump, and skip to please Lebron, even to the point of paying exorbitant luxury taxes to sign his friends? Well, the proof is in the numbers. No king has been this profitable since Midas."

Translation: There will be no tears shed for Dan Gilbert whatsoever.

[wco81]

Re: 2017 Offseason Thread

The city of Cleveland got their first professional sports championship in 50+ years.

They'll take mediocre teams/attendance if that's was the payoff for finally winning one, especially in the fashion they got it.

What, having the league intervene so they wouldn't lose 4-1?

[wco81]

Re: 2017 Offseason Thread

This is the only thing I could think of myself. But I don't know where these kind of thoughts can come from. Because the other side of this is basically going back to losing. If he's traded to the Knicks they ****ing suck. Heat lose too much even though Spo got them to the 9th spot. Spurs make sense... But what do they have to trade.

I'm confused.... I seriously need a drink. Like someone said already. The only person who benfits from this trade are the Warriors.

Other EC contenders won't benefit?

The team to which he's traded won't benefit?

[King_B_Mack]

Re: 2017 Offseason Thread

What sucks for Bulls fans is that Kyrie was probably the one to tell Butler not to force his way to Cleveland because he wanted to join Butler in Chicago next offseason. That's speculation, but if that was the case (which I think it was since Minnesota is on his list) then GarPax really screwed up.

We didn't have nothing to trade anyway, but this is exactly the type of thing I was talking about not wanting them to trade Butler. That and I don't believe those two idiots are capable of pulling off this rebuild.


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[ojandpizza]

Re: 2017 Offseason Thread

That's why none of this makes any sense at all!!



Knicks have nothing

Wolves read the above

Heat have value. But are they stupid enough to gut the team for one player

Spurs same as the above line. And Pops isn't going to let him dribble the air out of the ball.



LeBron is saying he's coming back no matter who his teammates lol



Look if Kyrie is traded to a West team I'm going to throw up.

Heat would be gutting the team by trading a couple of non all-stars to get an All Star? I disagree with that.

Maybe....now just hear me out. Maybe he's tired of being LeBron's trash teammate when they lose and then an after thought to Bron when they win. Just throwing that out there.


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Ain't nobody called Kyrie trash though.



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[jeebs9]

Re: 2017 Offseason Thread

Other EC contenders won't benefit?

The team to which he's traded won't benefit?

Kyrie gets traded to any teams the Warriors are just going to run East over. Kyrie isn't a power move in my opinion. He's not going to overwhelming change a team. He's a iso player that has the ball in his hands a lot. What team is going to go to the Championship with that kind of play. I'm not saying he's a bad player. Like OJ said. Kyrie is one of 4 players that take 30 shots a game. Going to another team and lose or barely make the playoffs.

[ProfessaPackMan]

Re: 2017 Offseason Thread

This just gave some life to the Offseason(as far message boards talking about this) for another day or two at most, since we were just pulling into the "Dead Zone" portion of the NBA Offseason.

[King_B_Mack]

Re: 2017 Offseason Thread

Heat would be gutting the team by trading a couple of non all-stars to get an All Star? I disagree with that.




Ain't nobody called Kyrie trash though.



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Nobody has specifically singled out Kyrie and called him trash, but it's implied every time they lose that LeBron is trying to do everything by himself. The narrative of this past Finals turned into LeBron out there trying to beat the super Warriors by himself. Kyrie is a man with pride like everybody else even if people don't mean him, that's probably how he's taking it.


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[Jeffx]

Re: 2017 Offseason Thread

What stumps me is the "bigger role" comment. They literally let him do whatever he wants when he has the ball, LeBron included. The dude will try to cross his man 4 or 5 times before shooting and is likely the league leader in half court dribbles. He's one of only like 4 players to take 20 shots a night last year. How much more usage can you possibly get when all you're a threat to do is dribble and shoot? Even Westbrook, Harden are making twice as many plays for other players. Does this dude just really want to be the ultimate ball-hog type of player? Go be a worse version of Iverson/Kobe somewhere? And he thinks that will fly with Pop? lol

Exactly. It'll fly here in NY of course, but in San Antonio? Pop will shut that down real quick.

[jeebs9]

Re: 2017 Offseason Thread

Heat would be gutting the team by trading a couple of non all-stars to get an All Star? I disagree with that.




Ain't nobody called Kyrie trash though.



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What I'm saying is that Kyrie would be in a losing situation again. He would go from playoff finals team to Team that might make it to playoffs. He also be playing wit Waiters again.

[Boltman]

Re: 2017 Offseason Thread

I can't wait to see how this all pans out.

Cleveland about to go back to Craig Ehlo, Brad Daugherty era.