Players less skilled or is the defense better.

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  • Jistic
    Hall Of Fame
    • Mar 2003
    • 16405

    #31
    Re: Players less skilled or is the defense better.

    If you watched the olympics then you know the answer.
    PSN: JISTIC_OS
    XBOX LIVE: JISTIC

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    • 23
      yellow
      • Sep 2002
      • 66469

      #32
      Re: Players less skilled or is the defense better.

      Originally posted by nbasuperstar40
      Not true, I seen these players shoot in person and i know they can shoot, FROM experiance, when your playing tenenious D, you are alot more tired on the offensive end of the court. PLAYING GREAT Defense is ALOT harder then GREAT OFFENSE.
      What part is not true? Please tell me and explain. I also never said they can't shoot but can't shoot as well as guys used to. Amazing hwo the fg% dropped once the MJ era ended huh?

      BTW that bogus statement about tenacious D... which player is this you're talking about?

      Comment

      • 23
        yellow
        • Sep 2002
        • 66469

        #33
        Re: Players less skilled or is the defense better.

        Originally posted by nbasuperstar40
        Not true, I seen these players shoot in person and i know they can shoot, FROM experiance, when your playing tenenious D, you are alot more tired on the offensive end of the court. PLAYING GREAT Defense is ALOT harder then GREAT OFFENSE.
        What part is not true? Please tell me and explain. I also never said they can't shoot but can't shoot as well as guys used to. Amazing hwo the fg% dropped once the MJ era ended huh?

        BTW that bogus statement about tenacious D... which player is this you're talking about?

        Comment

        • Air23
          Banned
          • Feb 2003
          • 2502

          #34
          Re: Players less skilled or is the defense better.

          Originally posted by KDRE
          Players dont shoot as well now.

          Their aren't as many mid range shooters as it used to be.

          Players, lots of them lack basic fundamentals.

          There are players in the L now who would never have been able to stand with the likes of the 70-80's players. They would simply not make the team.

          You can name players now off the head who are no more than athletic freaks or tall, who can't shoot a lick, or play very well, but get paid big money.

          JVG doesnt have a decent O system, yet claim its the D. no way... Teams also ran more back then.

          BAM! Right there!

          Comment

          • Air23
            Banned
            • Feb 2003
            • 2502

            #35
            Re: Players less skilled or is the defense better.

            Originally posted by KDRE
            Players dont shoot as well now.

            Their aren't as many mid range shooters as it used to be.

            Players, lots of them lack basic fundamentals.

            There are players in the L now who would never have been able to stand with the likes of the 70-80's players. They would simply not make the team.

            You can name players now off the head who are no more than athletic freaks or tall, who can't shoot a lick, or play very well, but get paid big money.

            JVG doesnt have a decent O system, yet claim its the D. no way... Teams also ran more back then.

            BAM! Right there!

            Comment

            • glucklich
              Banned
              • Jun 2004
              • 4272

              #36
              Re: Players less skilled or is the defense better.

              Originally posted by Yosemite Dan
              While the game doesn't look as pretty as it once did I think that the best teams from the 80's would not compete well with the best teams of today. The rough and tumble Pistons of the early 90's started the trend that is the style of play today. They weren't the most talented team up front but opposing teams would pay a price in the paint. The Celts and the Lakers played a fundamentally sound game back then but I think if they played now they would be bounced around quite a bit because players now are stronger and wider and the guards faster. Could you really see Kareem and McHale being as successful now as they were then with the amount of abuse they would be subjected to from the behemoths around them.

              Even Jordan packed on 20 pounds of muscle to use the extra strength to compete in the 90's. The lankier Jordan of the 80's would have a hard time being as successful.

              If it's debatable that today's player is more skilled there can be no doubt that today's player is more athletic. I hate to admit it being a big fan of the golden 80"s but they look like they play in slow motion compared to now. Some of those Dr J highlight plays that I used to marvel at are done on a nightly basis these days.

              I guess there isn't any sport today where the athletes aren't superior to their predecessors as strength and conditioning are very important now to athletes.

              As for the olympic team it was more of a case of a group of individuals rather than working as a team. If the U.S had picked thier best niche players instead of Nike spokesman they would have won handily.
              I guess the answer to who would when might depend on the refereeing. Will they tolerate more physical play eg the Pistions of the early 90s or would they call the game the way it was called pre-Bad Boys? This is a big part of why teams play this ugly style of basketball-- its tolerated. Its not even the same sport anymore. You cant really say the style of play is better now either. Its true that the shooting has declined. One of the reasons there are fewer open shots is that teams dont run an offense anymore where motion and ball movement is involved. This is what creates open shots. The iso, one on one style of play that is evident now is not conducive to open shots. So to summarize, I say that shooting is subpar now and also that there might be fewer open shots but its not better coaching of defense its that teams dont run their offense anymore.

              Comment

              • glucklich
                Banned
                • Jun 2004
                • 4272

                #37
                Re: Players less skilled or is the defense better.

                Originally posted by Yosemite Dan
                While the game doesn't look as pretty as it once did I think that the best teams from the 80's would not compete well with the best teams of today. The rough and tumble Pistons of the early 90's started the trend that is the style of play today. They weren't the most talented team up front but opposing teams would pay a price in the paint. The Celts and the Lakers played a fundamentally sound game back then but I think if they played now they would be bounced around quite a bit because players now are stronger and wider and the guards faster. Could you really see Kareem and McHale being as successful now as they were then with the amount of abuse they would be subjected to from the behemoths around them.

                Even Jordan packed on 20 pounds of muscle to use the extra strength to compete in the 90's. The lankier Jordan of the 80's would have a hard time being as successful.

                If it's debatable that today's player is more skilled there can be no doubt that today's player is more athletic. I hate to admit it being a big fan of the golden 80"s but they look like they play in slow motion compared to now. Some of those Dr J highlight plays that I used to marvel at are done on a nightly basis these days.

                I guess there isn't any sport today where the athletes aren't superior to their predecessors as strength and conditioning are very important now to athletes.

                As for the olympic team it was more of a case of a group of individuals rather than working as a team. If the U.S had picked thier best niche players instead of Nike spokesman they would have won handily.
                I guess the answer to who would when might depend on the refereeing. Will they tolerate more physical play eg the Pistions of the early 90s or would they call the game the way it was called pre-Bad Boys? This is a big part of why teams play this ugly style of basketball-- its tolerated. Its not even the same sport anymore. You cant really say the style of play is better now either. Its true that the shooting has declined. One of the reasons there are fewer open shots is that teams dont run an offense anymore where motion and ball movement is involved. This is what creates open shots. The iso, one on one style of play that is evident now is not conducive to open shots. So to summarize, I say that shooting is subpar now and also that there might be fewer open shots but its not better coaching of defense its that teams dont run their offense anymore.

                Comment

                • glucklich
                  Banned
                  • Jun 2004
                  • 4272

                  #38
                  Re: Players less skilled or is the defense better.

                  Originally posted by nbasuperstar40
                  Not true, I seen these players shoot in person and i know they can shoot, FROM experiance, when your playing tenenious D, you are alot more tired on the offensive end of the court. PLAYING GREAT Defense is ALOT harder then GREAT OFFENSE.
                  OK, in this thread it was established that the league has more one on one isolations where the other players on offense stand around. Where is the "better defense" in that? Where does the fatigue come in, in that?

                  Comment

                  • glucklich
                    Banned
                    • Jun 2004
                    • 4272

                    #39
                    Re: Players less skilled or is the defense better.

                    Originally posted by nbasuperstar40
                    Not true, I seen these players shoot in person and i know they can shoot, FROM experiance, when your playing tenenious D, you are alot more tired on the offensive end of the court. PLAYING GREAT Defense is ALOT harder then GREAT OFFENSE.
                    OK, in this thread it was established that the league has more one on one isolations where the other players on offense stand around. Where is the "better defense" in that? Where does the fatigue come in, in that?

                    Comment

                    • CMH
                      Making you famous
                      • Oct 2002
                      • 26203

                      #40
                      Re: Players less skilled or is the defense better.

                      Of course defense is better today. There is little motion on offense. When you have more players concentrating on an isolation offense, you don't need to do too much on defense but collapse on the ball-handler and clog the lane.

                      In the 80's, teams ran the ball and passed frequently. You couldn't just concentrate on one player because the ball was always in someone else's hand.

                      Just watch the NBA today. Teams find an open man either on an offensive rebound or through ball movement. But, you see teams waste their shot clock when they run iso with their best scorer because the scorer is trying to get open the entire time.

                      Wasting shot clock leads to fewer possessions. Fewer possessions equals lower scores.

                      In addition, because players are reluctant to pass the ball they attempt three pointers. Watch basketball in the 80's and look at where the guards stood when moving the ball around. Now watch the guards in today's game. They have moved farther back because they use the three point line as a guide to where they are suppose to stand on offense. How can you expect to have a good flow on offense when the guards concentrate themselves in one region? Then you rid of the mid-range jump shot because defenders just stand in-between the three point line and the paint.

                      I will agree that shooting percentages are affected by tighter D, but I won't agree that defense is the sole reason why players are poor shooters. Players in the 80's shot better because they drove the lane and moved the ball around to find an open shooter. If the players of today cared more about team instead of their individual stats, we'd see better shooting percentage as well.
                      "It may well be that we spectators, who are not divinely gifted as athletes, are the only ones able to truly see, articulate and animate the experience of the gift we are denied. And that those who receive and act out the gift of athletic genius must, perforce, be blind and dumb about it -- and not because blindness and dumbness are the price of the gift, but because they are its essence." - David Foster Wallace

                      "You'll not find more penny-wise/pound-foolish behavior than in Major League Baseball." - Rob Neyer

                      Comment

                      • CMH
                        Making you famous
                        • Oct 2002
                        • 26203

                        #41
                        Re: Players less skilled or is the defense better.

                        Of course defense is better today. There is little motion on offense. When you have more players concentrating on an isolation offense, you don't need to do too much on defense but collapse on the ball-handler and clog the lane.

                        In the 80's, teams ran the ball and passed frequently. You couldn't just concentrate on one player because the ball was always in someone else's hand.

                        Just watch the NBA today. Teams find an open man either on an offensive rebound or through ball movement. But, you see teams waste their shot clock when they run iso with their best scorer because the scorer is trying to get open the entire time.

                        Wasting shot clock leads to fewer possessions. Fewer possessions equals lower scores.

                        In addition, because players are reluctant to pass the ball they attempt three pointers. Watch basketball in the 80's and look at where the guards stood when moving the ball around. Now watch the guards in today's game. They have moved farther back because they use the three point line as a guide to where they are suppose to stand on offense. How can you expect to have a good flow on offense when the guards concentrate themselves in one region? Then you rid of the mid-range jump shot because defenders just stand in-between the three point line and the paint.

                        I will agree that shooting percentages are affected by tighter D, but I won't agree that defense is the sole reason why players are poor shooters. Players in the 80's shot better because they drove the lane and moved the ball around to find an open shooter. If the players of today cared more about team instead of their individual stats, we'd see better shooting percentage as well.
                        "It may well be that we spectators, who are not divinely gifted as athletes, are the only ones able to truly see, articulate and animate the experience of the gift we are denied. And that those who receive and act out the gift of athletic genius must, perforce, be blind and dumb about it -- and not because blindness and dumbness are the price of the gift, but because they are its essence." - David Foster Wallace

                        "You'll not find more penny-wise/pound-foolish behavior than in Major League Baseball." - Rob Neyer

                        Comment

                        • mvb34
                          S**c*d* P**l C*-Ch*mp**n
                          • Jul 2002
                          • 8138

                          #42
                          Re: Players less skilled or is the defense better.

                          Can somebody tell me why scoring is up so far this year?
                          Last edited by mvb34; 11-27-2004, 02:12 PM.
                          http://www.twitch.tv/mikecharles34

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                          • mvb34
                            S**c*d* P**l C*-Ch*mp**n
                            • Jul 2002
                            • 8138

                            #43
                            Re: Players less skilled or is the defense better.

                            Can somebody tell me why scoring is up so far this year?
                            http://www.twitch.tv/mikecharles34

                            Comment

                            • glucklich
                              Banned
                              • Jun 2004
                              • 4272

                              #44
                              Re: Players less skilled or is the defense better.

                              Originally posted by mvb34
                              Can somebody tell me why scoring is up so far this year?
                              What are you saying...that every thing is fine? Hmmm, well then defense must not be as good this year? How about this, maybe the if the scoring is up its because the league bottomed out the last couple of years? Maybe it simply couldnt be any worse than what its been? With that in mind an uptick isnt exactly cause for elation or even a credible argument when confronted with the fact that scoring in the league is substantially lower than what people are used to-- especially the people who can remember the NBA of the 80s and 90s.

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                              • glucklich
                                Banned
                                • Jun 2004
                                • 4272

                                #45
                                Re: Players less skilled or is the defense better.

                                Originally posted by mvb34
                                Can somebody tell me why scoring is up so far this year?
                                What are you saying...that every thing is fine? Hmmm, well then defense must not be as good this year? How about this, maybe the if the scoring is up its because the league bottomed out the last couple of years? Maybe it simply couldnt be any worse than what its been? With that in mind an uptick isnt exactly cause for elation or even a credible argument when confronted with the fact that scoring in the league is substantially lower than what people are used to-- especially the people who can remember the NBA of the 80s and 90s.

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