Kobe speaks on Ray Allen, Shaq, and NaS (a must read)

[Dynasty4Kobe]

Re: Kobe speaks on Ray Allen, Shaq, and NaS (a must read)

Kobe took the most shots.

He also took the most shots in the regular season and in the Western Conference playoffs, and the Lakers got through those.


If there was one player on the Lakers that I would choose to live or die by it would be Kobe. We could have kept giving Shaq the ball and let him get 50, but what about the other 40 or so points that they needed. The way Larry Brown played his defense was to deny Shaq the basketball using the Wallace x2 combo, and if he did get the ball, then just concede the basket. The only way the Lakers were going to win is if the perimeter players knocked down their shots. Fisher, Payton, George, Rush, etc. were all ineffective. That left Kobe, who was the only one able to create his own shot. I think that the Lakers should have gone to Gary in the post more, but Phil Jackson just would do so. You even saw Kobe, during times in the game, did what Phil told him to do. Pass it out to the perimeter open players. Kobe did that in a number of consecutive plays, nobody made anything. Then the ABC cameras showed Phil talking to Kobe. Kobe was saying that he was doing exactly what he was told to do. Doc Rivers, at that time said that "at some point in this game, Kobe will decide to take over himself." It worked in the past, just not that time. Kobe faced his one weakness that time, which is a lack of patience. This season he has shown to have MUCH more patience. This whole "Lakers break-up' fiasco and attacks by the media has really made Kobe mature, from what I can see.

[Dynasty4Kobe]

Re: Kobe speaks on Ray Allen, Shaq, and NaS (a must read)

Kobe took the most shots.

He also took the most shots in the regular season and in the Western Conference playoffs, and the Lakers got through those.


If there was one player on the Lakers that I would choose to live or die by it would be Kobe. We could have kept giving Shaq the ball and let him get 50, but what about the other 40 or so points that they needed. The way Larry Brown played his defense was to deny Shaq the basketball using the Wallace x2 combo, and if he did get the ball, then just concede the basket. The only way the Lakers were going to win is if the perimeter players knocked down their shots. Fisher, Payton, George, Rush, etc. were all ineffective. That left Kobe, who was the only one able to create his own shot. I think that the Lakers should have gone to Gary in the post more, but Phil Jackson just would do so. You even saw Kobe, during times in the game, did what Phil told him to do. Pass it out to the perimeter open players. Kobe did that in a number of consecutive plays, nobody made anything. Then the ABC cameras showed Phil talking to Kobe. Kobe was saying that he was doing exactly what he was told to do. Doc Rivers, at that time said that "at some point in this game, Kobe will decide to take over himself." It worked in the past, just not that time. Kobe faced his one weakness that time, which is a lack of patience. This season he has shown to have MUCH more patience. This whole "Lakers break-up' fiasco and attacks by the media has really made Kobe mature, from what I can see.

[ludacris06]

Re: Kobe speaks on Ray Allen, Shaq, and NaS (a must read)

I'd live and die by Kobe, but Kobe killed you guys in 4 out of 5 games.

[ludacris06]

Re: Kobe speaks on Ray Allen, Shaq, and NaS (a must read)

I'd live and die by Kobe, but Kobe killed you guys in 4 out of 5 games.

[23]

Re: Kobe speaks on Ray Allen, Shaq, and NaS (a must read)

kdre i know it would greatly hurt you to say anything great about kobe, but kobe did make the all-defensive first team. And this is coaches voting not some newsreporter who just watches highlights. Obviously kobe must be doing something right, because he got enough votes from coaches. I don't see t-mac anywhere on the list. Oh thats right its because all the coaches have their heads up kobe's ***. I agree they are both really really good players, and that its pretty pointless to say one is better then the other without starting a war, but how can you say kobe doesn't play good defense.

hurt....naw, and for the record I didnt say he couldnt play D, I'm not blind okay. I merely stated a fact about him being lit up just as he has done players too. At the same time some of you praise the guys D like it's DPOY material but he has yet to come close to that, which means he's not past the accomplishments of a Doug Christie or a Bruce Bowen. Lets not get into the Artest or Kg's or Wallace's or whatnot.

He's a good defender, but to ignore the passiveness until late in games, and being able to save energy to do whatever in the end has alot to do with Shaq also, along with the gambling on D and everything.

Look at how Billups broke him off in the finals. Where was the super D from the "list" at when it was time to use it? Tayshaun Prince played some pretty good D if you wanna be honest.

Now although I was talking about that one game at Staples, look at the pic I posted. Look whos there to back Kobe up if he gets burned, if he chooses to let go, if he somehow makes a mistake. How many of the L top guards had that help?

For the record again, I was directing that post to D4K, in which another kobe fan jumps in to interrupt another conversation between me and someone else.

[23]

Re: Kobe speaks on Ray Allen, Shaq, and NaS (a must read)

kdre i know it would greatly hurt you to say anything great about kobe, but kobe did make the all-defensive first team. And this is coaches voting not some newsreporter who just watches highlights. Obviously kobe must be doing something right, because he got enough votes from coaches. I don't see t-mac anywhere on the list. Oh thats right its because all the coaches have their heads up kobe's ***. I agree they are both really really good players, and that its pretty pointless to say one is better then the other without starting a war, but how can you say kobe doesn't play good defense.

hurt....naw, and for the record I didnt say he couldnt play D, I'm not blind okay. I merely stated a fact about him being lit up just as he has done players too. At the same time some of you praise the guys D like it's DPOY material but he has yet to come close to that, which means he's not past the accomplishments of a Doug Christie or a Bruce Bowen. Lets not get into the Artest or Kg's or Wallace's or whatnot.

He's a good defender, but to ignore the passiveness until late in games, and being able to save energy to do whatever in the end has alot to do with Shaq also, along with the gambling on D and everything.

Look at how Billups broke him off in the finals. Where was the super D from the "list" at when it was time to use it? Tayshaun Prince played some pretty good D if you wanna be honest.

Now although I was talking about that one game at Staples, look at the pic I posted. Look whos there to back Kobe up if he gets burned, if he chooses to let go, if he somehow makes a mistake. How many of the L top guards had that help?

For the record again, I was directing that post to D4K, in which another kobe fan jumps in to interrupt another conversation between me and someone else.

[23]

Re: Kobe speaks on Ray Allen, Shaq, and NaS (a must read)

He also took the most shots in the regular season and in the Western Conference playoffs, and the Lakers got through those.


If there was one player on the Lakers that I would choose to live or die by it would be Kobe. We could have kept giving Shaq the ball and let him get 50, but what about the other 40 or so points that they needed. The way Larry Brown played his defense was to deny Shaq the basketball using the Wallace x2 combo, and if he did get the ball, then just concede the basket. The only way the Lakers were going to win is if the perimeter players knocked down their shots. Fisher, Payton, George, Rush, etc. were all ineffective. That left Kobe, who was the only one able to create his own shot. I think that the Lakers should have gone to Gary in the post more, but Phil Jackson just would do so. You even saw Kobe, during times in the game, did what Phil told him to do. Pass it out to the perimeter open players. Kobe did that in a number of consecutive plays, nobody made anything. Then the ABC cameras showed Phil talking to Kobe. Kobe was saying that he was doing exactly what he was told to do. Doc Rivers, at that time said that "at some point in this game, Kobe will decide to take over himself." It worked in the past, just not that time. Kobe faced his one weakness that time, which is a lack of patience. This season he has shown to have MUCH more patience. This whole "Lakers break-up' fiasco and attacks by the media has really made Kobe mature, from what I can see.

Fact is, when the deisel ran the show, they won, wnad when Kobe tried to take over they lost, and lost big. Even to the point they were sent home weeping like girls.

I dont know about Kobe being mature, it s one thing to acknowledge you made mistakes, but another to do things like snitch on a guy then say he';s the one with the issues, I'm moving on.

It's one thing to not like a coach, but go to the media with it, then most likely get him fired, and say some stuff like he's trying to sell books when he tells how you whined about wanting to be the man although the real "man" carried you to 3 finals. Yes I said carried because Shaq deisel was the MVP and without that unstoppable force in the middle Kobe would've been tired not as effective with that team.

That isnt maturity. He knows certain things has to happen because plenty of fans in LA will be torched hot if the team flops and misses the playoffs. Deep down inside you know most people here believe he got Phil fired and Shaq ousted.

[23]

Re: Kobe speaks on Ray Allen, Shaq, and NaS (a must read)

He also took the most shots in the regular season and in the Western Conference playoffs, and the Lakers got through those.


If there was one player on the Lakers that I would choose to live or die by it would be Kobe. We could have kept giving Shaq the ball and let him get 50, but what about the other 40 or so points that they needed. The way Larry Brown played his defense was to deny Shaq the basketball using the Wallace x2 combo, and if he did get the ball, then just concede the basket. The only way the Lakers were going to win is if the perimeter players knocked down their shots. Fisher, Payton, George, Rush, etc. were all ineffective. That left Kobe, who was the only one able to create his own shot. I think that the Lakers should have gone to Gary in the post more, but Phil Jackson just would do so. You even saw Kobe, during times in the game, did what Phil told him to do. Pass it out to the perimeter open players. Kobe did that in a number of consecutive plays, nobody made anything. Then the ABC cameras showed Phil talking to Kobe. Kobe was saying that he was doing exactly what he was told to do. Doc Rivers, at that time said that "at some point in this game, Kobe will decide to take over himself." It worked in the past, just not that time. Kobe faced his one weakness that time, which is a lack of patience. This season he has shown to have MUCH more patience. This whole "Lakers break-up' fiasco and attacks by the media has really made Kobe mature, from what I can see.

Fact is, when the deisel ran the show, they won, wnad when Kobe tried to take over they lost, and lost big. Even to the point they were sent home weeping like girls.

I dont know about Kobe being mature, it s one thing to acknowledge you made mistakes, but another to do things like snitch on a guy then say he';s the one with the issues, I'm moving on.

It's one thing to not like a coach, but go to the media with it, then most likely get him fired, and say some stuff like he's trying to sell books when he tells how you whined about wanting to be the man although the real "man" carried you to 3 finals. Yes I said carried because Shaq deisel was the MVP and without that unstoppable force in the middle Kobe would've been tired not as effective with that team.

That isnt maturity. He knows certain things has to happen because plenty of fans in LA will be torched hot if the team flops and misses the playoffs. Deep down inside you know most people here believe he got Phil fired and Shaq ousted.

[nkhera1]

Re: Kobe speaks on Ray Allen, Shaq, and NaS (a must read)

hurt....naw, and for the record I didnt say he couldnt play D, I'm not blind okay. I merely stated a fact about him being lit up just as he has done players too. At the same time some of you praise the guys D like it's DPOY material but he has yet to come close to that, which means he's not past the accomplishments of a Doug Christie or a Bruce Bowen. Lets not get into the Artest or Kg's or Wallace's or whatnot.

He's a good defender, but to ignore the passiveness until late in games, and being able to save energy to do whatever in the end has alot to do with Shaq also, along with the gambling on D and everything.

Look at how Billups broke him off in the finals. Where was the super D from the "list" at when it was time to use it? Tayshaun Prince played some pretty good D if you wanna be honest.

Now although I was talking about that one game at Staples, look at the pic I posted. Look whos there to back Kobe up if he gets burned, if he chooses to let go, if he somehow makes a mistake. How many of the L top guards had that help?

For the record again, I was directing that post to D4K, in which another kobe fan jumps in to interrupt another conversation between me and someone else.

lol i'm not a kobe fan but i do know my basketball. That guy has one of the worst attitudes ever which would prevent me from ever liking him as a player, but i do know a good player. I doubt you have ever said anything good about kobe before in your life. Its like your part of t-mac's posse or something. He is obviously not defensive player of they year, but he doesn't have the luxury of just standing around shooting wide open 3's either or getting the dirty baskets. Thats why ron artest is so good, he is good both ways but even then he is not as good as kobe or t-mac is offensively. and you talk about gambling on d, i think prince would have the best chance of anyone to gamble on d. I don't know about you but i would rather have wallace behind me then a old, fat, slow shaq.

[nkhera1]

Re: Kobe speaks on Ray Allen, Shaq, and NaS (a must read)

hurt....naw, and for the record I didnt say he couldnt play D, I'm not blind okay. I merely stated a fact about him being lit up just as he has done players too. At the same time some of you praise the guys D like it's DPOY material but he has yet to come close to that, which means he's not past the accomplishments of a Doug Christie or a Bruce Bowen. Lets not get into the Artest or Kg's or Wallace's or whatnot.

He's a good defender, but to ignore the passiveness until late in games, and being able to save energy to do whatever in the end has alot to do with Shaq also, along with the gambling on D and everything.

Look at how Billups broke him off in the finals. Where was the super D from the "list" at when it was time to use it? Tayshaun Prince played some pretty good D if you wanna be honest.

Now although I was talking about that one game at Staples, look at the pic I posted. Look whos there to back Kobe up if he gets burned, if he chooses to let go, if he somehow makes a mistake. How many of the L top guards had that help?

For the record again, I was directing that post to D4K, in which another kobe fan jumps in to interrupt another conversation between me and someone else.

lol i'm not a kobe fan but i do know my basketball. That guy has one of the worst attitudes ever which would prevent me from ever liking him as a player, but i do know a good player. I doubt you have ever said anything good about kobe before in your life. Its like your part of t-mac's posse or something. He is obviously not defensive player of they year, but he doesn't have the luxury of just standing around shooting wide open 3's either or getting the dirty baskets. Thats why ron artest is so good, he is good both ways but even then he is not as good as kobe or t-mac is offensively. and you talk about gambling on d, i think prince would have the best chance of anyone to gamble on d. I don't know about you but i would rather have wallace behind me then a old, fat, slow shaq.

[23]

Re: Kobe speaks on Ray Allen, Shaq, and NaS (a must read)

lol i'm not a kobe fan but i do know my basketball. That guy has one of the worst attitudes ever which would prevent me from ever liking him as a player, but i do know a good player.

Not just you but tons of others. I'm just not afraid to admit it.

I doubt you have ever said anything good about kobe before in your life. Its like your part of t-mac's posse or something.

I also dont see you calling out what aint right about him. He's great, but not as great as his theme fans make him out to be. Big deal. And for the record, because I dont suck up to Kobe on OS doesnt mean I dont know what a good ball player is. Now that is funny. What is even funnier is you think mcgrady has something to do with how I feel. You are the weak minded one if that is how you think.

Again for the ones who dont know much about me and just label me a tmac guy, I used to like the Lakers with kobe on the team with NVE EJ Kobe Elden and Shaq. That all has nothing to do with tracy.

He is obviously not defensive player of they year, but he doesn't have the luxury of just standing around shooting wide open 3's either or getting the dirty baskets.

Oh he's not DPOY for sure, and he can shoot whatever he wants and he does. You think Rudy T is gonna try to stop him? You see what happened to the last coach who disagreed with him.

Thats why ron artest is so good, he is good both ways but even then he is not as good as kobe or t-mac is offensively. and you talk about gambling on d, i think prince would have the best chance of anyone to gamble on d. I don't know about you but i would rather have wallace behind me then a old, fat, slow shaq.

Ron is good because he can play his role very well, plays it intensely, and he isnt all that concerned with winning as long as he is the one doing it. Prince may have a luxury to gamble, but he doesnt. Did you see the finals? What a test it was for him, and he passed with flying colors, and he wasnt a slacker either.

Say what you will about Shaq, but we all know his effect on the L. We know when he ran the show, LA won. We know just like Kobe did that if he slacked off or gambled that Shaq's huge frame would be there whether he jumped or not.

[23]

Re: Kobe speaks on Ray Allen, Shaq, and NaS (a must read)

lol i'm not a kobe fan but i do know my basketball. That guy has one of the worst attitudes ever which would prevent me from ever liking him as a player, but i do know a good player.

Not just you but tons of others. I'm just not afraid to admit it.

I doubt you have ever said anything good about kobe before in your life. Its like your part of t-mac's posse or something.

I also dont see you calling out what aint right about him. He's great, but not as great as his theme fans make him out to be. Big deal. And for the record, because I dont suck up to Kobe on OS doesnt mean I dont know what a good ball player is. Now that is funny. What is even funnier is you think mcgrady has something to do with how I feel. You are the weak minded one if that is how you think.

Again for the ones who dont know much about me and just label me a tmac guy, I used to like the Lakers with kobe on the team with NVE EJ Kobe Elden and Shaq. That all has nothing to do with tracy.

He is obviously not defensive player of they year, but he doesn't have the luxury of just standing around shooting wide open 3's either or getting the dirty baskets.

Oh he's not DPOY for sure, and he can shoot whatever he wants and he does. You think Rudy T is gonna try to stop him? You see what happened to the last coach who disagreed with him.

Thats why ron artest is so good, he is good both ways but even then he is not as good as kobe or t-mac is offensively. and you talk about gambling on d, i think prince would have the best chance of anyone to gamble on d. I don't know about you but i would rather have wallace behind me then a old, fat, slow shaq.

Ron is good because he can play his role very well, plays it intensely, and he isnt all that concerned with winning as long as he is the one doing it. Prince may have a luxury to gamble, but he doesnt. Did you see the finals? What a test it was for him, and he passed with flying colors, and he wasnt a slacker either.

Say what you will about Shaq, but we all know his effect on the L. We know when he ran the show, LA won. We know just like Kobe did that if he slacked off or gambled that Shaq's huge frame would be there whether he jumped or not.

[nkhera1]

Re: Kobe speaks on Ray Allen, Shaq, and NaS (a must read)

Not just you but tons of others. I'm just not afraid to admit it.





I also dont see you calling out what aint right about him. He's great, but not as great as his theme fans make him out to be. Big deal. And for the record, because I dont suck up to Kobe on OS doesnt mean I dont know what a good ball player is. Now that is funny. What is even funnier is you think mcgrady has something to do with how I feel. You are the weak minded one if that is how you think.

Again for the ones who dont know much about me and just label me a tmac guy, I used to like the Lakers with kobe on the team with NVE EJ Kobe Elden and Shaq. That all has nothing to do with tracy.



Oh he's not DPOY for sure, and he can shoot whatever he wants and he does. You think Rudy T is gonna try to stop him? You see what happened to the last coach who disagreed with him.


Ron is good because he can play his role very well, plays it intensely, and he isnt all that concerned with winning as long as he is the one doing it. Prince may have a luxury to gamble, but he doesnt. Did you see the finals? What a test it was for him, and he passed with flying colors, and he wasnt a slacker either.

Say what you will about Shaq, but we all know his effect on the L. We know when he ran the show, LA won. We know just like Kobe did that if he slacked off or gambled that Shaq's huge frame would be there whether he jumped or not.

lol isn't you labeling me as a kobe guy pretty much the same as me labeling you a t-mac guy. I'm not here to dispute who ran la because obviously it was shaq, though kobe helped out more then most of us think imo. without shaq, kobe never gets 3 rings, without kobe shaq never gets 3 rings. While it is still a luxury to have shaq, what about t-mac, now he has yao behind him, however he may be playing good d so i'm not sure, its just that i haven't watched him too often with the rockets. My dispute was over the fact that you call kobe weak defensively, and obviously many coaches in the nba disagree with you. I think i would trust a bunch of coaches over one kobe *****, but thats just me

[nkhera1]

Re: Kobe speaks on Ray Allen, Shaq, and NaS (a must read)

Not just you but tons of others. I'm just not afraid to admit it.





I also dont see you calling out what aint right about him. He's great, but not as great as his theme fans make him out to be. Big deal. And for the record, because I dont suck up to Kobe on OS doesnt mean I dont know what a good ball player is. Now that is funny. What is even funnier is you think mcgrady has something to do with how I feel. You are the weak minded one if that is how you think.

Again for the ones who dont know much about me and just label me a tmac guy, I used to like the Lakers with kobe on the team with NVE EJ Kobe Elden and Shaq. That all has nothing to do with tracy.



Oh he's not DPOY for sure, and he can shoot whatever he wants and he does. You think Rudy T is gonna try to stop him? You see what happened to the last coach who disagreed with him.


Ron is good because he can play his role very well, plays it intensely, and he isnt all that concerned with winning as long as he is the one doing it. Prince may have a luxury to gamble, but he doesnt. Did you see the finals? What a test it was for him, and he passed with flying colors, and he wasnt a slacker either.

Say what you will about Shaq, but we all know his effect on the L. We know when he ran the show, LA won. We know just like Kobe did that if he slacked off or gambled that Shaq's huge frame would be there whether he jumped or not.

lol isn't you labeling me as a kobe guy pretty much the same as me labeling you a t-mac guy. I'm not here to dispute who ran la because obviously it was shaq, though kobe helped out more then most of us think imo. without shaq, kobe never gets 3 rings, without kobe shaq never gets 3 rings. While it is still a luxury to have shaq, what about t-mac, now he has yao behind him, however he may be playing good d so i'm not sure, its just that i haven't watched him too often with the rockets. My dispute was over the fact that you call kobe weak defensively, and obviously many coaches in the nba disagree with you. I think i would trust a bunch of coaches over one kobe *****, but thats just me

[Dynasty4Kobe]

Re: Kobe speaks on Ray Allen, Shaq, and NaS (a must read)

Fact is, when the deisel ran the show, they won, wnad when Kobe tried to take over they lost, and lost big. Even to the point they were sent home weeping like girls.

No doubt, when Shaq was running the show, the Lakers were damn near unstoppable. But it got to the point where Shaq just couldn't do it like he once could. The constant loss of energy in the 4th quarter, the liability at the free throw line, and tendancy to half-*** through critical points of the season started to kick in. I'll never deny that Shaq is the biggest reason that the Lakers won all those years. But he could not maintain this. After the third championship season, he simply lost that motivational drive. When this happened, the Lakers needed a new guy to keep that desire to win alive. That was placed on Kobe. I'm not so sure Kobe was ready to take all of this on at that time. He may not have been ready to take over the team to the extent that the Lakers wanted him to. In the 2003 playoffs, I was severely dissapointed in Shaq. He was not in shape, getting beat to rebounds, and being outworked by the likes of Kevin Willis. That again left it all on Kobe.

I dont know about Kobe being mature, it s one thing to acknowledge you made mistakes, but another to do things like snitch on a guy then say he';s the one with the issues, I'm moving on.

By being more mature, I'm referring more to the on the court game, rather than the off-court crap. What I've noticed in the past, when a player misses one or two shots, Kobe won't go back to him. This year, when players start off slow, Kobe still tries to get them the ball. Atkins for example, was shooting horribly in the first couple games of the preseason and regular season. Still Kobe would look for Atkins to spot up and nail the jumper. He wouldn't force it. So far, the only time I've seen Kobe force unnecessary jumpers (on a constant basis) is the game against Chicago.

It's one thing to not like a coach, but go to the media with it, then most likely get him fired, and say some stuff like he's trying to sell books when he tells how you whined about wanting to be the man although the real "man" carried you to 3 finals. Yes I said carried because Shaq deisel was the MVP and without that unstoppable force in the middle Kobe would've been tired not as effective with that team.

Kobe didn't like Phil Jackson, the person, but he said he respected him as the Coach. Kobe didn't go to the media first with the book stuff by Phil Jackson. It was Phil who released all of this stuff about Kobe. I think Kobe decently handeled the situation by avoiding any comments about it, but it gets to that point, where a guy can handle so much. There is not one player in the NBA that takes as much abuse from media than Kobe. It's gotten to the point where people are just putting his life under a microscope. When Kobe says something about Shaq, when he is under some VERY serious pressure at a time when he thought his comments would not be released to the public, he gets labeled as an untrusting teammate. Yet, Phil, without any mental force or pressure (certainly not the likes of waht Kobe was under) publishes a book which flat out attacks Bryant. People actually use Phil's comments as support against Kobe. Releasing crap about your player, stuff that should have remained in the lockerroom, to the entire public is a form of attacking Kobe's privacy. Maybe not to the extent of Kobe breaching Shaq's privacy, but still.

That isnt maturity. He knows certain things has to happen because plenty of fans in LA will be torched hot if the team flops and misses the playoffs. Deep down inside you know most people here believe he got Phil fired and Shaq ousted.

It wasn't Kobe who said "It's going to be Me or Phil." Phil Jackson was actually the one who came up to Buss and said, "Choose between me or Kobe." Why did Phil have to put Buss in that type of situation. Obviously, Buss would choose Kobe, a superstar at the age of 25, over a coach who obviously would not go in the direction that the Lakers wanted to go. As a result of Phil leaving, Shaq demanded the trade. Kobe didn't say "fire Phil." Phil said "leave Kobe."

Another fun debate with KDRE.