Game 1 of the '92 finals just started on NBA TV

[DoubleDeuce]

Marv Albert and the Czar on the call (with Ervin Johnson occasionally saying really dumb things).

Drexler was so fun to watch on fast breaks. Just deadly.

I forgot about Bill Cartwright's form on free throws. Hideous.

Chicago Stadium was a great venue.

Phil Jackson was wearing a tie that you would feel bad about buying for a quarter at a yard sale.

[AlexBrady]

Re: Game 1 of the '92 finals just started on NBA TV

Marv Albert and the Czar on the call (with Ervin Johnson occasionally saying really dumb things).

Drexler was so fun to watch on fast breaks. Just deadly.

I forgot about Bill Cartwright's form on free throws. Hideous.

Chicago Stadium was a great venue.

Phil Jackson was wearing a tie that you would feel bad about buying for a quarter at a yard sale.

Clyde Drexler was quicker than a cat. A streaky perimeter shooter due to his line-drive arc. He could rebound like a big man and was an outstanding passer. Indeed, he was a spectacular and unstoppable finisher on the run. His major failing was his poor defense.

Cartwright was an underrated player. Massive at 7-0 and 280 pounds which meant he was perfectly suited to bang in the low post. He was a brutally physical low post defender. He could also make a couple of his wobbly jumpers per game but he wasn't the scorer he was in his younger years.

I believe this '92 Bulls outfit was the fourth best team in NBA history trailing only the '67 Sixers, '96 Bulls, and '72 Lakers.

Michael Jordan was the best player in the league and could do everything. Scottie Pippen was the perfect side-kick, and like Jordan, had a total game. Horace Grant was in his prime and was an outstanding low post defender and rebounder.

This team had the quickness and versatility to switch on defense (except for Cartwright). They ran the triangle offense with precision and rarely took bad shots. By running the triangle they could control the tempo of any game.

If they were to match up with this year's Champion Warriors, the '92 Bulls would win in six games.

[ojandpizza]

Re: Game 1 of the '92 finals just started on NBA TV

Give me the 92 or 93 Bulls > the 96 Bulls.

Horace Grant might be the most underrated player of the entire 90’s decade.


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[AlexBrady]

Re: Game 1 of the '92 finals just started on NBA TV

Give me the 92 or 93 Bulls > the 96 Bulls.

Horace Grant might be the most underrated player of the entire 90’s decade.


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Well, I favor the 96 Bulls because Ron Harper (at 6-6) was much bigger than Armstrong (6-2) and therefore made their switching defense even tougher to crack. Jordan could go all out all the time on defense in 92/93 and had to pick his spots more in 96. His three-point shooting had improved by 96 and he had really perfected his low post turnaround.

The 92/93 teams never had a player like Toni Kukoc. At 6-10 he could create his own shot against almost anybody and would dominate second-stringers. He was thoroughly reliable in the clutch.

Luc Longley was 40 pounds heavier than Cartwright and was a much better passer which gave the 96 team a different dimension.

[ojandpizza]

Re: Game 1 of the '92 finals just started on NBA TV

Harper gave them a different dimension not just for switching but for guarding players in general so Jordan didn't have to. Chasing around Reggie Miller and letting Jordan hang out on Mullin for example. I think he was a great fit for what that team was doing, and a better match-up for the slow grind it out style of the late 90's.

But in almost any other scenario, whether it be the up and down 80's or today's game, I would rather have BJ Armstrong and a young legs Jordan in my back-court, as well as younger legs with Pip and Horace as well as the forwards.

Kukoc adds something for sure, he's basically the only reason I'm somewhat on the fence between the two teams. Has to be one of the best 6th men of all time, in many instances was a better fit for them on the floor than Rodman was during that 2nd three-peat run. Having them both was a unique dynamic.

But that 3 man core of Pippen, Grant, Armstrong did win 55 games without Jordan. Kukoc and Longley both were part of that team but I believe had a limited role that first year. Both Armstrong and Grant were All-Stars with Jordan gone and more opportunity, so the argument could be had that the 93 Bulls had 4 All-Star capable guys.

I think mostly I'm just really high on Horace Grant. I think he would have been a 20/10 guy playing on a lesser team, but was a perfect "3rd guy" to have for MJ and Pip. He absolutely destroyed the Bulls and Kukoc the year Orlando knocked them out of the playoffs. He was good for nearly 20 and 11 every night if I remember correctly. The Bulls adding Rodman and Horace getting hurt was the biggest reason the Bulls were even able to beat that team the next year.

In that 92 season in particular, I remember looking up some of his advanced stats for a different argument in the past. He was basically performing at the level of a top 10 player in the league. All-Defensive player, top 5 in win shares, top 10 in defensive rating, number 1 in offensive rating, top 5 in box +/-, top 10 in VORP, typically the only guys ranking that highly in those metrics in a single season are your MVP candidates.

[jfsolo]

Re: Game 1 of the '92 finals just started on NBA TV

IMO, the first 3peat Bulls squad doesn't get enough ink as an elite force, especially the '91 team. I know that a lot of people prefer the ultra refined offensive game of second 3peat Jordan, but '91 Jordan was the most complete version of the player, IMO.

[ojandpizza]

Re: Game 1 of the '92 finals just started on NBA TV

IMO, the first 3peat Bulls squad doesn't get enough ink as an elite force, especially the '91 team. I know that a lot of people prefer the ultra refined offensive game of second 3peat Jordan, but '91 Jordan was the most complete version of the player, IMO.

Jordan during that stretch was hungry and probably was the best blend of his young freak athletic self with the mental and skill aspect that he had later in his career. I think it very closely resembles LeBron during his first title with Miami. Still an insane athlete who was hungry to win, but had developed a great skill set and mental understanding of how to win. He's more refined in ways now, just as Jordan was later in his career, but that perfect harmony of their athletic game and skill game colliding is the best version of both of those guys IMO.

[jake44np]

Re: Game 1 of the '92 finals just started on NBA TV

'91 Jordan was all about getting to the rim, he lacked a consistant jumper and had no 3pt shot.
'96 Jordan was a much better shooter and had developed an unstoppable turn around jumper.
'96 Jordan was a much better all around player and he himself will tell you that.

[AlexBrady]

Re: Game 1 of the '92 finals just started on NBA TV

In a theoretical matchup with the Warriors, Armstrong's reckless and sloppy defense would get destroyed by Stephen Curry. Harper, on the other hand, would make Curry sweat to get good looks.

Armstrong was a curious selection for the All Star game and Chicago's coaching staff privately disrespected his headstrong play.

Grant didn't quite have the stuff to average 20 ppg. He was a reliable shooter from around 15 feet (infinitely better than Rodman with his jumper) but didn't have serious go-to moves. Grant also had trouble making the correct cuts and reads in the triangle offense at times. Surprisingly, Rodman was actually a better executer of the triangle.

Comparing Grant and Rodman's rebounding capabilities is interesting. Grant, in his prime usually grabbed one rebound for every four minutes of playing time which is outstanding. Rodman was grabbing one rebound for every 2.3 minutes in his Chicago days. That is phenomenal and blows Grant away.
In addition Rodman was both quicker and faster than Grant.

[ojandpizza]

Re: Game 1 of the '92 finals just started on NBA TV

'91 Jordan was all about getting to the rim, he lacked a consistant jumper and had no 3pt shot.
'96 Jordan was a much better shooter and had developed an unstoppable turn around jumper.
'96 Jordan was a much better all around player and he himself will tell you that.

I disagree. He was younger, faster, a better defensive player, and put more pressure on defenders than the 96 Jordan did. He had just missed nearly 2 seasons of basketball completely and it definitely showed a bit even though he was still arguably the best player in basketball.

One of the biggest factors of his performance in the later stage was they had shortened the 3 point line. He was never a great range shooter, just wasn't part of his game. Them shortening the line for that 3 or 4 year span however long it was enabled him to statically shoot them at a higher clip despite him still not quite having that range, though it had gotten better.. Also during that period, positionaly speaking, there wasn't much competition for him. Reggie Miller might have been the best SG he even faced during that run and he didn't even defend him on the other end. Gary Payton gave him struggles, but naturally he destroyed the likes of Chapman, Hornacek, Russell, Starks, Kittles, etc.. You have the greatest player of all time against a field of guys that weren't even close to his realm. It was a bigger feat with him doing that against Drexler, Dumars, and those cats, and the teams the Bulls were beating in general were better teams.

[ojandpizza]

Re: Game 1 of the '92 finals just started on NBA TV

In a theoretical matchup with the Warriors, Armstrong's reckless and sloppy defense would get destroyed by Stephen Curry. Harper, on the other hand, would make Curry sweat to get good looks.

Armstrong was a curious selection for the All Star game and Chicago's coaching staff privately disrespected his headstrong play.

Grant didn't quite have the stuff to average 20 ppg. He was a reliable shooter from around 15 feet (infinitely better than Rodman with his jumper) but didn't have serious go-to moves. Grant also had trouble making the correct cuts and reads in the triangle offense at times. Surprisingly, Rodman was actually a better executer of the triangle.

Comparing Grant and Rodman's rebounding capabilities is interesting. Grant, in his prime usually grabbed one rebound for every four minutes of playing time which is outstanding. Rodman was grabbing one rebound for every 2.3 minutes in his Chicago days. That is phenomenal and blows Grant away.
In addition Rodman was both quicker and faster than Grant.

Rodman is the best pound for pound rebounder to ever play, so that's not really news there.

[AlexBrady]

Re: Game 1 of the '92 finals just started on NBA TV

Gary Payton gave him struggles, but naturally he destroyed the likes of Chapman, Hornacek, Russell, Starks, Kittles, etc.. You have the greatest player of all time against a field of guys that weren't even close to his realm. It was a bigger feat with him doing that against Drexler, Dumars, and those cats, and the teams the Bulls were beating in general were better teams.

Jordan didn't struggle against Gary Payton. He typically caught the ball where he wanted and limited Payton's maneuverability to go for steals. The Glove was an aggressive yet highly overrated defender.

Kerry Kittles and his quickness gave Jordan a much tougher time especially in screen/roll set ups. Jordan couldn't seem to beat Kerry to the screen in time.

The teams the Bulls beat in the late 90s were better than their early 90s victims. I would rank the 96 Sonics as the best followed closely by the 97 Jazz.

[cima]

Re: Game 1 of the '92 finals just started on NBA TV

Was Jordan REALLY a better 3 point shooter later in his career though? His % is inflated from the shortened 3 point line and in 97-98 when they moved the line back again, his % went back to **** with it (24%)

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[djep]

Re: Game 1 of the '92 finals just started on NBA TV

Marv Albert and the Czar on the call (with Ervin Johnson occasionally saying really dumb things).

Drexler was so fun to watch on fast breaks. Just deadly.

I forgot about Bill Cartwright's form on free throws. Hideous.

Chicago Stadium was a great venue.

Phil Jackson was wearing a tie that you would feel bad about buying for a quarter at a yard sale.

That NBA on NBC theme music was iconic.

[AlexBrady]

Re: Game 1 of the '92 finals just started on NBA TV

Was Jordan REALLY a better 3 point shooter later in his career though? His % is inflated from the shortened 3 point line and in 97-98 when they moved the line back again, his % went back to **** with it (24%)

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Yes. His turn around jumper from the low post was improved. His release point on his three-point ball was slightly raised and the results improved. Jordan was just a more versatile offensive player by 96.