March 2019: LeBron James is no longer the best player in the world. So who is?

[Vni]

Re: March 2019: LeBron James is no longer the best player in the world. So who is?

Ah your four prefered. I'am not really interested in that discussion anyway. Preferences don't matter.

[ojandpizza]

Re: March 2019: LeBron James is no longer the best player in the world. So who is?

I mean he's absolutely on a downturn, has been (aside from the playoffs) for 3-4 years now. It's just that LeBron on a downturn is still better than just about everyone at their best, and "playoff LeBron" has been a real thing, upping his +/- numbers to better than anyone in this past years playoffs over the past 3 seasons. I definitely understand knocking him for not playing at that level for an entire season, but there also has to still be somewhat of a bonus for being better than everyone else in the 2nd season as well.. Which time will tell if he still has that this year or not, we don't really know to be fair.

All that aside LeBron this past year coming back from injury is what many were considering to be his worst basketball in 10 or so years. And basically what the masses have been penalizing him for in determining where he still stands. Crazy that his post All-Star splits were still 29/8/10 with a TS% of 57...

[cima]

Re: March 2019: LeBron James is no longer the best player in the world. So who is?

ESPN released their annual top 100 players for the upcoming season,


3. LeBron
2. Kawhi
1. Giannis


Agree? Disagree?


I've gone back and forth on where I rank LeBron. Some days I feel he's still the best, other days like when I made this thread, I don't think he is.


I do however think Kawhi has become vastly overrated. The dude got a GS-like streak of lucky breaks these past playoffs. If KD and Klay never get hurt then where would Kawhi be on this list? He'd at least be behind KD (who's absent from the list because of injury) and probably LeBron too.

[J_Posse]

Re: March 2019: LeBron James is no longer the best player in the world. So who is?

ESPN released their annual top 100 players for the upcoming season,


3. LeBron
2. Kawhi
1. Giannis


Agree? Disagree?


I've gone back and forth on where I rank LeBron. Some days I feel he's still the best, other days like when I made this thread, I don't think he is.


I do however think Kawhi has become vastly overrated. The dude got a GS-like streak of lucky breaks these past playoffs. If KD and Klay never get hurt then where would Kawhi be on this list? He'd at least be behind KD (who's absent from the list because of injury) and probably LeBron too.

Like I was arguing earlier (and like LeBron from 2008 - 2011 before the 'chip ) Giannis is the best player in the NBA even without a title. Does he still have flaws in his game, yes, but no other player is as dominant on both ends.

Kawhi is essentially 2011 Dirk to me until he can prove himself further. Even with his ridiculous run in last season's playoffs, he hasn't been as dominant on both ends as in 2016 - '17 with the Spurs (he's last fully healthy season).

Then their are the issues with his left knee/quad and if him having trouble with it is permanent.


Now, that isn't meant as disrespect for LeBron or Anthony Davis. LeBron could have a renaissance (mostly on the defensive end) this season and recapture the crown. And Davis is the most talented, complete big man since Duncan, Garnett, Robinson & Olajuwon.

But, can he stay healthy and maintain his dominant play (similar to two years ago) for an entire season and playoffs?

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[ojandpizza]

Re: March 2019: LeBron James is no longer the best player in the world. So who is?

I would have Kawhi around 6-7ish.. I think Giannis, LeBron, KD (if those two are healthy), Steph, AD are guys I would have ahead of Kawhi.. so what is that, 6th? In saying that, I think all of those guys and throw Harden into that mix are all basically on the same tier.. especially with KD being an unknown, and LeBron fallen a bit from being super-human, and also being a bit unknown himself.

Kawhi has taken a big jump forward in terms of his footwork, ability to create space and shots for himself.. but this past season was really the only season of his career that I feel we’ve started to see teams really have to game plan a bit for his scoring. He started getting doubled off screens, we started seeing help defenders go towards his side of the court... but it still lags far behind the defensive attention guys like Steph, KD, Bron, Giannis get.. we watched Tortonto build basically a 5 man wall to try and deter Giannis and the Bucks attack, had Bledsoe and co been able to hit shots we wouldn’t even be having this talk.. we saw them have to box and 1 Curry, etc.. Kawhi has never demanded the type of defensive attention and adjustments as either of them, and though he’s scoring at a high rate I don’t think it’s quite a 1:1 comparison just yet. We basically say “he out-played Giannis” but there were a lot more circumstances to that outcome than just the two of them.. nobody has made that drastic of a defensive adjustment to one player since San Antonio and Dallas tried to make someone other than Bron beat them in the playoffs.

I also think he’s the worst playmaker in comparison to the guys I previously mentioned. We had people questioning some of Gianni’s decision making in that series and he basically had 4-5 guys collapsed on him. Kawhi was having the same struggles just on soft doubles.. less would have been said of Giannis had his guys stepped up and made the plays Lowry and FVV did.. I think he’s also got a bit of Kobe-ism in him, but much better shot selection so he’s more efficient. The biggest difference in their production is Kobe would take more “bad shots”, thus would score a bit more but be less efficient in the end.. but he also was a better playmaker when he needed to be than Kawhi..

Though his offense is getting better every year, I do think this was his worst year defensively in the past few seasons.. so IMO he was a better all-around player his last healthy year with San Antonio than he was this past season. Most games I watched he had plenty of off ball standing and watching, but he already has the label of “best two way player” so it’s ignored.. most games Siakam took their lead defensively role, Lowry/FVV hounded the other teams best guards.. Kawhi still geared up for big defensive possessions especially late in some post season games, but “playoff-LeBron” has also still been selectively doing that as well and he’s been all been written off as a plus defender.. I do think on that end of the floor this past season Kawhi got a big nudge from previous seasons recognition. Like I said, he still had games and moments where he did look like that dominant two-way threat, but for about 90% of the season/post-season he wasn’t that guy this past year.

I also don’t feel like he was better that Steph or Klay in the finals.. not necessarily worse, but he wasn’t out there looking like the most impactful player on the floor most games.. Klay went absolutely nuclear though, so maybe that’s a bit unfair of a take.

I don’t think it’s a huge stretch to say he should be ranked higher, you could always exclude KD from the convo because he’s out, say that Steph doesn’t have the defense, that LeBron takes too many defensive plays off, that he outplayed Giannis, that we don’t know what we’ll see out of AD in his new spot, but to me he hasn’t quite jumped those guys, and I might slightly prefer Kawhi from a couple seasons ago over the one we just watched.. it’s closer right now than I can remember the top 5-7 guys ever being honestly.. I do think there was a bit of Reggie Miller like reactions from him having a few massive playoff games. I would however rank Harden behind all those guys, and say Embiid would absolutely make his name in that group if he could give you more than 28-30 good minutes.



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[ojandpizza]

March 2019: LeBron James is no longer the best player in the world. So who is?

I would have Kawhi around 6-7ish.. I think Giannis, LeBron, KD (if those two are healthy), Steph, AD are guys I would have ahead of Kawhi.. so what is that, 6th? In saying that, I think all of those guys and throw Harden into that mix are all basically on the same tier.. especially with KD being an unknown, and LeBron fallen a bit from being super-human, and also being a bit unknown himself.

Kawhi has taken a big jump forward in terms of his footwork, ability to create space and shots for himself.. but this past season was really the only season of his career that I feel we’ve started to see teams really have to game plan a bit for his scoring. He started getting doubled off screens, we started seeing help defenders go towards his side of the court... but it still lags far behind the defensive attention guys like Steph, KD, Bron, Giannis get.. we watched Tortonto build basically a 5 man wall to try and deter Giannis and the Bucks attack, had Bledsoe and co been able to hit shots we wouldn’t even be having this talk.. we saw them have to box and 1 Curry, etc.. Kawhi has never demanded the type of defensive attention and adjustments as either of them, and though he’s scoring at a high rate I don’t think it’s quite a 1:1 comparison just yet. We basically say “he out-played Giannis” but there were a lot more circumstances to that outcome than just the two of them.. nobody has made that drastic of a defensive adjustment to one player since San Antonio and Dallas tried to make someone other than Bron beat them in the playoffs.

I also think he’s the worst playmaker in comparison to the guys I previously mentioned. We had people questioning some of Gianni’s decision making in that series and he basically had 4-5 guys collapsed on him. Kawhi was having the same struggles just on soft doubles.. less would have been said of Giannis had his guys stepped up and made the plays Lowry and FVV did.. I think he’s also got a bit of Kobe-ism in him, but much better shot selection so he’s more efficient. The biggest difference in their production is Kobe would take more “bad shots”, thus would score a bit more but be less efficient in the end.. but he also was a better playmaker we he needed to be than Kawhi.. he

Though his offense is getting better every year, I do think this was his worst year defensively in the past few seasons.. so IMO he was a better all-around player his last healthy year with San Antonio than he was this past season. Most games I watched he had plenty of off ball standing and watching, but he already has the label of “best two way player” so it’s ignored.. most games Siakam took their lead defensively role, Lowry/FVV hounded the other teams best guards.. Kawhi still geared up for big defensive possessions especially late in some post season games, but “playoff-LeBron” has also still been selectively doing that as well and he’s been all been written off as a plus defender.. I do think on that end of the floor this past season Kawhi got a big nudge from pervious seasons recognition. Like I said, he still had games and moments where he did look like that dominant two-way threat, but for about 90% of the season/post-season he wasn’t that guy this past year.

I also don’t feel like he was better that Steph or Klay in the finals.. not necessarily worse, but he wasn’t out there looking like the most impactful player on the floor most games.. Klay went absolutely nuclear though, so maybe that’s a bit unfair of a take.

I don’t think it’s a huge stretch to say he should be ranked higher, you could always exclude KD from the convo because he’s out, say that Steph doesn’t have the defense, that LeBron takes too many defensive plays off, that he outplayed Giannis, that we don’t know what we’ll see out of AD in his new spot, but to me he hasn’t quite jumped those guys, and I might slightly prefer Kawhi from a couple seasons ago over the one we just watched.. it’s closer right now than I can remember the top 5-7 guys ever being honestly.. I do think there was a bit of Reggie Miller like reactions from him having a few massive playoff games. I would however rank Harden behind all those guys, and say Embiid would absolutely make his name in that group if he could give you more than 28-30 good minutes.



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In saying all that, I also think Jokic was as good as anybody in this years playoffs, if not slightly better than all of them.. small sample size, and I think he gives less value later in games because he can’t necessarily create looks.. his defense will likely never be stellar, but this past season he didn’t look like a negative on that end either.. his name should be somewhere in that mix, I would probably rather have him over Harden as well if he shows another year of improvement yet again.


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[AlexBrady]

Re: March 2019: LeBron James is no longer the best player in the world. So who is?

Kawhi can bang and finesse which Curry, Durant and Giannis cannot do. His jumper can be launched from all over the attack zone. Doesn't need the ball to dominate the action. His defensive capabilities are still very high which means he can be a potential stopper if the game comes down to a single last possession. A two way go to guy who thrives in the clutch is a rare commodity in the NBA.

[TheFinalEvent97]

Re: March 2019: LeBron James is no longer the best player in the world. So who is?

If Kawhi can at least somewhat keep up this level of playmaking he's shown so far he will be the best player in the league.

[ojandpizza]

Re: March 2019: LeBron James is no longer the best player in the world. So who is?

If Kawhi can at least somewhat keep up this level of playmaking he's shown so far he will be the best player in the league.

Unless AD keeps dropping 40&20 in about 30 minutes lol


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[cima]

Re: March 2019: LeBron James is no longer the best player in the world. So who is?

Letting LeBron run the point would be disastrous. He dominates the ball and only looks to make kickout passes that he hopes will be transformed into assists.

I have said this for many years now but LeBron should be EXCLUSIVELY a finisher, setting screens and rolling to the rim.

Double doubles, triple doubles, ect. None of that matters.

So AB, I have to imagine you're pretty surprised by the Lakers 11-2 start with LeBron as PG averaging a career-high in assists and a career-low in turnovers, no?

[TheFinalEvent97]

Re: March 2019: LeBron James is no longer the best player in the world. So who is?

This was done just before the start of the season, i would say its pretty accurate
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[ojandpizza]

Re: March 2019: LeBron James is no longer the best player in the world. So who is?

I miss watching LeBron and Lonzo throw full court passes to each other 3-4 times a game lol.

I do get AB's point to an extent though. And LeBron is such a great passer coming off the roll, I do wish he set a few more screens because it really opens up for him to roll and throw the lob.. Also wish they worked in a few more AD and Bron screen and rolls as well.

Overall though, it's cool to see Bron have a year like this one.. In some ways I think his passing has actually been underrated by some.. I've seen plenty of instances where the argument was made that he's "only averaged 1 more assist than Jordan, Kobe, KD, or whoever the argument was about that time", when in actuality we all knew he was most likely capable of leading the league in assists in any given season without having to crank up to some ridiculous level of usage. (Jordan 88, Westbrook, Harden, etc)..

Part of what I've always loved about LeBron as a player is his ability to fill gaps and mask weaknesses.. Mainly at his peak with Miami. Switching 1-4 on defense to guard whoever was hurting them, be the best play-maker on the floor any night they needed help there, be the best rebounder on the floor any night Bosh was struggling or like when GS was swarming Thompson, drop 40 any give night or be fine with only getting 20.. Just so damn versatile to the degree that I've never witness a player fill holes quite like him. Those days are gone, but it's fun to see him up his passing this season with the lack of play-makers on the roster.

[AlexBrady]

Re: March 2019: LeBron James is no longer the best player in the world. So who is?

LeBron's assist to turnover is at a terrific winning number right now. He has been great working with Davis in medium screen/roll situations where his lob passes to Davis have been spot on (Davis has the best hands in the game). LeBron's ability to scan the floor and make accurate passes is still at the highest level. His ability to fire passes clear across the court shows what a powerhouse he truly is.


Lakers are playing better defense than I would have imagined with Davis making his usual timely baseline rotations and McGee/Howard providing a sizeable rim deterrence in their rotations. Bradley remains an ace defender and LeBron occupies a large forbidding defensive space. They all show fast hands sniping at ball-penetrators. This ability to play good enough defense and then to control the boards allows them to launch their running game where they are dynamic.


They are playing high level ball right now for sure.

[3304Life]

Re: March 2019: LeBron James is no longer the best player in the world. So who is?

Assuming he passes Kobe for #3 in points before the end of the season and with the assumption he eventually ends up at #1, when do we think that happens?

Accounting for rest (60 games) and assuming he maintains the same level of scoring (let’s say 25ppg), he will overtake Kobe before the All-Star break. Following that, it will take him another 189 to surpass Kareem as the all time points leader.

So do we think he’s going to do it? 235 games to reach number one in points. And hypothesizing that he wins another championship or two, breaks into the top 5 in assists and top 50 in rebounds, will it then be too difficult to deny him as the greatest ever? Or is the way Jordan achieved all he did too impressive to beat?

[ojandpizza]

Re: March 2019: LeBron James is no longer the best player in the world. So who is?

Assuming he passes Kobe for #3 in points before the end of the season and with the assumption he eventually ends up at #1, when do we think that happens?

Accounting for rest (60 games) and assuming he maintains the same level of scoring (let’s say 25ppg), he will overtake Kobe before the All-Star break. Following that, it will take him another 189 to surpass Kareem as the all time points leader.

So do we think he’s going to do it? 235 games to reach number one in points. And hypothesizing that he wins another championship or two, breaks into the top 5 in assists and top 50 in rebounds, will it then be too difficult to deny him as the greatest ever? Or is the way Jordan achieved all he did too impressive to beat?

It's always going to depend on who you're asking and how much they value various things. Some people put large value on number of rings, some on longevity, some on his career numbers, etc..

To me personally, I mean LeBron if he retired tomorrow has already had the type of career that puts him in that conversation with the best players ever. And his best basketball is already behind him, as well as he's playing now we have seen his peak already.. So to me, in terms of ranking him against others for GOAT status or whatever, anything he does from this point on doesn't really matter much to me personally..