Should Amare be a MVP candidate?

[caliph79]

Re: Should Amare be a MVP candidate?

Amare when Nash was out:

FG 18/53 (34%), 17 PPG, 7 RPG, 0.6 APG

Amare on the season:

FG 57%, 26 PPG, 8 RPG, 1.6 APG


This should put all Amare for MVP arguments to rest. The only times all season that Amare has had terrible FG% was when Nash was out. This proves Stoudemire's scoring depends greatly on Nash.

On the flip side, Amare as a second year player without Nash...

FG .475 PPG 20.6 RPG 9.1 AST 1.4

I would take a look at numbers over 53 games as opposed to a few games.

Does Nash make Amare better? Of course but so does the fact that he has another year under his belt. I think he'll get some votes but Nash would take my vote if I had to decide between team MVP.

[caliph79]

Re: Should Amare be a MVP candidate?

Amare when Nash was out:

FG 18/53 (34%), 17 PPG, 7 RPG, 0.6 APG

Amare on the season:

FG 57%, 26 PPG, 8 RPG, 1.6 APG


This should put all Amare for MVP arguments to rest. The only times all season that Amare has had terrible FG% was when Nash was out. This proves Stoudemire's scoring depends greatly on Nash.

On the flip side, Amare as a second year player without Nash...

FG .475 PPG 20.6 RPG 9.1 AST 1.4

I would take a look at numbers over 53 games as opposed to a few games.

Does Nash make Amare better? Of course but so does the fact that he has another year under his belt. I think he'll get some votes but Nash would take my vote if I had to decide between team MVP.

[dieselboy]

Re: Should Amare be a MVP candidate?

How many wins is that squad capable of w/o Amare??? I think that w/o Amare, Nash AND company probably are a lottery team. Believe it or not, Amare's scoring and rebounding are JUST AS IMPORTANT as Nash passing. You say Nash is more valuable, but that's only if you value his leadership and passing more than say, Post defense, post offense, Amare's the leading scorer for that team, and also very good at rebounding and shotblocking. where does Phoenix turn to if Amare goes down? At least tell me how many wins Phoenix has w/o Amare???? Gimme a logical explanation how that team wins even 40 games the whole year w/o Amare. You can only win so many games fastbreaking w/a collection of guys like JJ, Q, and marion, but 1/2 the teams in the L can beat that team, minimum, if you strip those 26/9 and 60 % fg of Amare, along w/the fact he's there best post defender/post up player.

Those have to be some of the worst arguments I have ever heard.

First off: "How many wins is that squad capable of w/o Amare??? "

How many wins? Well, are you saying if they had some run of the mill Center playing in his place or if he was gone entirely and just the current team to fill the void? I'll go with the latter just to make your argument look better. The new starter at Center would have to be Steven Hunter. Would he fill the void? Hardly. But, with that said, if you doubled his minutes, to say 25 minutes a game, I'm sure he would be capable of 10 points, 6 boards, and 2-3 blocks. Plus, the guy is shooting 65% on the season, sure he only takes a few shots a game, a lot being put backs, but he would benefit from the players around him. Then, you can give minutes back to Jake Voshkul, who averaged 25 mins per game with the Suns last year, and he put up 7 points and 5 boards a game. And lastly, the Suns still have Bo Outlaw riding the bench. Don't think that if he wasn't given 20 minutes a game that he wouldn't be able to put up 5/5 with a block.

With these three guys playing more minutes, would they be the same team? No, not even close. But with that said, despite how good the Western Conference is, without Amare, I still think this team is better than atleast the Lakers, Timberwolves (currently), Nuggets, Blazers, Clippers, and would still be a 7th or 8th seed at worst, add to the fact that they are currently seeded #1, they would probably still be a top 5 seed.

2ndly: "I think that w/o Amare, Nash AND company probably are a lottery team."

Wow, what a terrible argument. Let me ask you, how good would the Heat be without Shaq and Wayne? Or Cavaliers without LeBron and Z? or the Spurs without Duncan and Parker? or the Mavericks with out Dirk and Finley? or the Sonics without Allen and Lewis? or the Wizards without Arenas and Hughes?

Answer: Lottery Team.

[dieselboy]

Re: Should Amare be a MVP candidate?

How many wins is that squad capable of w/o Amare??? I think that w/o Amare, Nash AND company probably are a lottery team. Believe it or not, Amare's scoring and rebounding are JUST AS IMPORTANT as Nash passing. You say Nash is more valuable, but that's only if you value his leadership and passing more than say, Post defense, post offense, Amare's the leading scorer for that team, and also very good at rebounding and shotblocking. where does Phoenix turn to if Amare goes down? At least tell me how many wins Phoenix has w/o Amare???? Gimme a logical explanation how that team wins even 40 games the whole year w/o Amare. You can only win so many games fastbreaking w/a collection of guys like JJ, Q, and marion, but 1/2 the teams in the L can beat that team, minimum, if you strip those 26/9 and 60 % fg of Amare, along w/the fact he's there best post defender/post up player.

Those have to be some of the worst arguments I have ever heard.

First off: "How many wins is that squad capable of w/o Amare??? "

How many wins? Well, are you saying if they had some run of the mill Center playing in his place or if he was gone entirely and just the current team to fill the void? I'll go with the latter just to make your argument look better. The new starter at Center would have to be Steven Hunter. Would he fill the void? Hardly. But, with that said, if you doubled his minutes, to say 25 minutes a game, I'm sure he would be capable of 10 points, 6 boards, and 2-3 blocks. Plus, the guy is shooting 65% on the season, sure he only takes a few shots a game, a lot being put backs, but he would benefit from the players around him. Then, you can give minutes back to Jake Voshkul, who averaged 25 mins per game with the Suns last year, and he put up 7 points and 5 boards a game. And lastly, the Suns still have Bo Outlaw riding the bench. Don't think that if he wasn't given 20 minutes a game that he wouldn't be able to put up 5/5 with a block.

With these three guys playing more minutes, would they be the same team? No, not even close. But with that said, despite how good the Western Conference is, without Amare, I still think this team is better than atleast the Lakers, Timberwolves (currently), Nuggets, Blazers, Clippers, and would still be a 7th or 8th seed at worst, add to the fact that they are currently seeded #1, they would probably still be a top 5 seed.

2ndly: "I think that w/o Amare, Nash AND company probably are a lottery team."

Wow, what a terrible argument. Let me ask you, how good would the Heat be without Shaq and Wayne? Or Cavaliers without LeBron and Z? or the Spurs without Duncan and Parker? or the Mavericks with out Dirk and Finley? or the Sonics without Allen and Lewis? or the Wizards without Arenas and Hughes?

Answer: Lottery Team.

[Kashanova]

Re: Should Amare be a MVP candidate?

I think if Z wasnt on the team they could still make the play offs

[Kashanova]

Re: Should Amare be a MVP candidate?

I think if Z wasnt on the team they could still make the play offs

[Streets]

Re: Should Amare be a MVP candidate?

If you take away Amare's 26 points, 9 boards, and the fact he is the only guy on the Suns that can compete down low, he is MVP worthy, IMHO. I know everybody's convinced that Nash makes that team go, and that is true, but partially b/c the Suns don't have a bona fide back up pg when Nash is out. But the same is true of Stoudemire, w/o him, the Suns would be killed down low, and Amare gives the Suns so much. If Amare were to go down, no doubt the Suns would be a below average team, consider how they would replace his production, his ability to guard other teams 4's and 5's. Also, the Suns record has to be considered in Amare's candidacy as well. Like I said, take Amare out with an injury, and does Phoenix win games? Guys like Marion, JJ, and Q are not gonna replace all his points, rebounds, etc. Those guys already are playing as well as they can, and they can't guard 4's and 5's. Just an interesting thought, that Stoudemire in his own way is just as irreplaceble in what he brings to that team. I'm sorry, I just don't see Jake Voskohl stepping in and getting Phoenix all those fast break points, I'd like to see Steve Nash get 11 assists passing to Voskohl on the break, LMFAO, or Voskohl pulling down rebounds to start Phoenix fast break. Anyway, my point is, that while Nash brings a unique element to that team, that IS irreplaceable, Amare also brings an element that if missing,would probably turn Phoenix from a 65 win team to a team lucky to win more than 35-40 games in the West. consider that Nash is used to having a dominating player like Amare and Dirk, he's never shown he can lead a team w/a less than stellar supporting cast.

If I had to do the voting, you got to put Amare in the top 10 to, for the above reasons, the fact that his value to that team means a ton in terms of W's and L's, and also his numbers are MVP worthy. You can't disagree with that.

And lastly, before you attack this post, use your brain on this one. I'm actually asking you to think, to consider Amare's value to that team, and to consider the fact that if Amare went down for 5 games, how would that team immediatly replace the things he does? I wanna see what people think about that. Agree, or disagree. Also, if u disagree, what is your reasoning for that.

Simply put, no. He's not even the MVP of his team, so theres no way he should be considered MVP of the league. For you its all about numbers, who will replace his stats? but what you don't get is nash makes everyone around him better including Amare. Amare, while great and has great stats (which u love) doesnt make people around him better. And much of his greatness is a product of playing w/ Nash.

By the way, you made a "Dirk for MVP" thread, a "Lebron for MVP" thread, and now an "Amare for MVP" thread, and theres already a general "who should be MVP thread"! Geez

[Streets]

Re: Should Amare be a MVP candidate?

If you take away Amare's 26 points, 9 boards, and the fact he is the only guy on the Suns that can compete down low, he is MVP worthy, IMHO. I know everybody's convinced that Nash makes that team go, and that is true, but partially b/c the Suns don't have a bona fide back up pg when Nash is out. But the same is true of Stoudemire, w/o him, the Suns would be killed down low, and Amare gives the Suns so much. If Amare were to go down, no doubt the Suns would be a below average team, consider how they would replace his production, his ability to guard other teams 4's and 5's. Also, the Suns record has to be considered in Amare's candidacy as well. Like I said, take Amare out with an injury, and does Phoenix win games? Guys like Marion, JJ, and Q are not gonna replace all his points, rebounds, etc. Those guys already are playing as well as they can, and they can't guard 4's and 5's. Just an interesting thought, that Stoudemire in his own way is just as irreplaceble in what he brings to that team. I'm sorry, I just don't see Jake Voskohl stepping in and getting Phoenix all those fast break points, I'd like to see Steve Nash get 11 assists passing to Voskohl on the break, LMFAO, or Voskohl pulling down rebounds to start Phoenix fast break. Anyway, my point is, that while Nash brings a unique element to that team, that IS irreplaceable, Amare also brings an element that if missing,would probably turn Phoenix from a 65 win team to a team lucky to win more than 35-40 games in the West. consider that Nash is used to having a dominating player like Amare and Dirk, he's never shown he can lead a team w/a less than stellar supporting cast.

If I had to do the voting, you got to put Amare in the top 10 to, for the above reasons, the fact that his value to that team means a ton in terms of W's and L's, and also his numbers are MVP worthy. You can't disagree with that.

And lastly, before you attack this post, use your brain on this one. I'm actually asking you to think, to consider Amare's value to that team, and to consider the fact that if Amare went down for 5 games, how would that team immediatly replace the things he does? I wanna see what people think about that. Agree, or disagree. Also, if u disagree, what is your reasoning for that.

Simply put, no. He's not even the MVP of his team, so theres no way he should be considered MVP of the league. For you its all about numbers, who will replace his stats? but what you don't get is nash makes everyone around him better including Amare. Amare, while great and has great stats (which u love) doesnt make people around him better. And much of his greatness is a product of playing w/ Nash.

By the way, you made a "Dirk for MVP" thread, a "Lebron for MVP" thread, and now an "Amare for MVP" thread, and theres already a general "who should be MVP thread"! Geez

[SonicMage]

Re: Should Amare be a MVP candidate?

By the way, you made a "Dirk for MVP" thread, a "Lebron for MVP" thread, and now an "Amare for MVP" thread, and theres already a general "who should be MVP thread"! Geez

I reserve the right to make a "Shaq for MVP" thread!

[SonicMage]

Re: Should Amare be a MVP candidate?

By the way, you made a "Dirk for MVP" thread, a "Lebron for MVP" thread, and now an "Amare for MVP" thread, and theres already a general "who should be MVP thread"! Geez

I reserve the right to make a "Shaq for MVP" thread!

[Streets]

Re: Should Amare be a MVP candidate?

No, we don't need another thread on the same topic being discussed in the Amare MVP thread.

However, I'm sure he has a website or the Suns' site would be a great place for multiple threads on this topic.

I'm going to lock this one though.

*LOCKED*

Thank you clay!

[Streets]

Re: Should Amare be a MVP candidate?

No, we don't need another thread on the same topic being discussed in the Amare MVP thread.

However, I'm sure he has a website or the Suns' site would be a great place for multiple threads on this topic.

I'm going to lock this one though.

*LOCKED*

Thank you clay!

[remix]

Re: Should Amare be a MVP candidate?

MVP means .. most valuable player. I'm pretty certain that the suns wouldn't struggle to score 80 points with him gone.

[remix]

Re: Should Amare be a MVP candidate?

MVP means .. most valuable player. I'm pretty certain that the suns wouldn't struggle to score 80 points with him gone.

[PlyrzNumber1]

Re: Should Amare be a MVP candidate?

Amare is a great scorer, and has made the transition quite well from the 4 to playing primarily the 5, even though he plays the 5 like a 4...(you still with me?)

The potential is there, but his game is much to one sided at this point to really impact the team, he basically keeps his mouth open while getting fed the ball, (nothing to discount his athletecism, and contributions) but at this point he's still a tier away from the Duncan's, Garnetts, Kobe's, Lebrons, and Shaq's in the league (guys who simply glow on the court with contributions across the board)

nash is having an amazing season, but that sun team (just from my perspective) looks like a perfect scheme where if any one of those guys (johnson, richardson, amare, matrix, nash) fell off the wagon they'd stumble.

Nash's percentages are ridiculous,i think he's shooting over 50%, with 90% from the FT line.... and the team faltered in his short absence (granted he was out during a stretch where the suns played some of the better teams in the league) he still deserves considerable amount of respect for his success thus far.

But if were going purely off #'s, i dont think there's a guy having a better season (statistically) right now then The Matrix (Shawn Marion) yet he doesn't get discussed in any talk, even though he's contributing from both sides of the ball better then anybody else in the league.

(19.5PPG, 11RPG, 2.1STL, 1.5BLK) shooting 47% from the floor, and .853 from the FT line.

If i were GM of the Phoenix Sun moving on...and i could only keep one player from this current roster it would probably be Shawn.

Thats just my opinion though you can make an argument for almost any of there starting 5.