Western Conference Playoffs - 2nd Round Discussion Thread

[TMagic]

Re: Western Conference Playoffs - 2nd Round Discussion Thread

Nets fans would disagree, lol.

Love watching Joker play. I don't say that about a lot of today's NBA players. Dude's basketball I.Q. is insane.

Saw this comment on YouTube;
"Imagine how good the Nuggets are going to be next season with Jokic, Murray and KD!"

That's the craziest thing about Jokic to me honestly

He's captaining one of the best offenses in league history. And no offense to the rest of the team, but they are a bunch of average talent at best aside from Murray who is solid.

Just imagining him playing alongside an actual top guy, even if it's someone that's been to an all star game, would be amazing.

A Jokic + Murray + All Star squad would be incredible. I really hope that comes to fruition sometime soon

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[ojandpizza]

Re: Western Conference Playoffs - 2nd Round Discussion Thread

That's the craziest thing about Jokic to me honestly

He's captaining one of the best offenses in league history. And no offense to the rest of the team, but they are a bunch of average talent at best aside from Murray who is solid.

Just imagining him playing alongside an actual top guy, even if it's someone that's been to an all star game, would be amazing.

A Jokic + Murray + All Star squad would be incredible. I really hope that comes to fruition sometime soon

Sent from my Pixel 7 Pro using Tapatalk

MPJ and all the picks for another true star would be insane. Even if not a true “star” but just someone consistent and provides defense. OG and Trent JR for MPJ and whatever firsts they wanted would have been great at the deadline.

Even a Murray for Dame swap but I doubt they shorten their window like that. Feels like Joker + Malone will be around for awhile. As good as Joker is Malone has to get some credit too. Not many coaches would go against the grain and build their offense around some big slow point-center like that.

Joker might be elite athleticism away from being as good as anybody I’ve watched. But situationally everything has worked out perfectly for him. It’s crazy, my brother brings it up all the time, but I remember back when Joker and Nurk were on Denver’s summer league team and I text my brother and told him they could have something special if they can figure out how to utilize those guys in todays game. Nurk moved on obviously and had a solid career, but Denver really found a way to build a team around Joker in todays game and it’s almost unbelievable how well it’s worked.

We always talk about guys in other eras. It’s crazy to think that in years past Jokic could likely be a PF, or at the very least a center who would never get exposed on high ball screens like he does now. He’s playing in one of the worst eras for his play style and they’ve still built a really solid team around his strengths.

[J_Posse]

Re: Western Conference Playoffs - 2nd Round Discussion Thread

MPJ and all the picks for another true star would be insane. Even if not a true “star” but just someone consistent and provides defense. OG and Trent JR for MPJ and whatever firsts they wanted would have been great at the deadline.

Even a Murray for Dame swap but I doubt they shorten their window like that. Feels like Joker + Malone will be around for awhile. As good as Joker is Malone has to get some credit too. Not many coaches would go against the grain and build their offense around some big slow point-center like that.

Joker might be elite athleticism away from being as good as anybody I’ve watched. But situationally everything has worked out perfectly for him. It’s crazy, my brother brings it up all the time, but I remember back when Joker and Nurk were on Denver’s summer league team and I text my brother and told him they could have something special if they can figure out how to utilize those guys in todays game. Nurk moved on obviously and had a solid career, but Denver really found a way to build a team around Joker in todays game and it’s almost unbelievable how well it’s worked.

We always talk about guys in other eras. It’s crazy to think that in years past Jokic could likely be a PF, or at the very least a center who would never get exposed on high ball screens like he does now. He’s playing in one of the worst eras for his play style and they’ve still built a really solid team around his strengths.

That just shows how high his BBIQ is that he can thrive in an era not suited to his strengths. I know it's still early in his career, but I wonder how high up the all-time great center list he can get?

He's making a serious case already to be a top 10 center of all time (Embiid is right behind him). And the crazy part is I still feel people diminish or underappreciate his greatness.

Not trying to pile on, but I can't believe cima argued against Joker and Embiid being the 2nd and 3rd best players in the league.

Sometimes you gotta just see how things are trending.



Official HQ of Bills Backer/Spurs Nation

[dubcity]

Re: Western Conference Playoffs - 2nd Round Discussion Thread

It's almost like he was the MVP or something.

[J_Posse]

Re: Western Conference Playoffs - 2nd Round Discussion Thread

It's almost like he was the MVP or something.

Yeah, no ****. But plenty of people (in the media, fans, & former players) have attempted to diminish his run of dominance.

We might be seeing possibly the two greatest offensive big men ever (based on skill & efficiency).

Yet, some would like you to believe that Joker and Embiid "really aren't that great."

In a league that is obsessed with "switchability, pace, three-point shooting, & positionless basketball" a slow, plodding, White guy from Eastern Europe (drafted as an "afterthought" in the 2nd round) is a bona-fide HOF'er.

If Giannis wasn't around he'd easily be the best player in the league. Yes, easily.

And plenty of big men have won MVP's in the past and aren't mentioned as "GOAT's." Elvin Hayes, Bob Petite, Moses Malone, etc, etc.

Official HQ of Bills Backer/Spurs Nation

[ProfessaPackMan]

Western Conference Playoffs - 2nd Round Discussion Thread

[QUOTE=J_Posse;2050774667

Not trying to pile on, but I can't believe cima argued against Joker and Embiid being the 2nd and 3rd best players in the league.

Sometimes you gotta just see how things are trending.



Official HQ of Bills Backer/Spurs Nation[/QUOTE]

When was this?

As for who the best player in the league is…that changes every year/playoffs depending on who it is.

That's the craziest thing about Jokic to me honestly

He's captaining one of the best offenses in league history. And no offense to the rest of the team, but they are a bunch of average talent at best aside from Murray who is solid.

Just imagining him playing alongside an actual top guy, even if it's someone that's been to an all star game, would be amazing.

A Jokic + Murray + All Star squad would be incredible. I really hope that comes to fruition sometime soon

Sent from my Pixel 7 Pro using Tapatalk

Not y’all trying to give him the Lebron “He ain’t got much help and he’s carrying them by himself” treatment already 🥴

[ojandpizza]

Re: Western Conference Playoffs - 2nd Round Discussion Thread

Wouldn’t have minded seeing KD advance but I’m glad I don’t have to watch Booker anymore lol

[Jeffx]

Re: Western Conference Playoffs - 2nd Round Discussion Thread

That just shows how high his BBIQ is that he can thrive in an era not suited to his strengths. I know it's still early in his career, but I wonder how high up the all-time great center list he can get?

Hell yeah, Joker would have been fire back in the day. Imagine him on those great early 00's Spurs teams?

For me, Bill Russell had the highest BBIQ of any player. Then you had cats like Oscar, Magic, Bird, etc. Joker can be right up there with those guys.

[ggsimmonds]

Re: Western Conference Playoffs - 2nd Round Discussion Thread

Not y’all trying to give him the Lebron “He ain’t got much help and he’s carrying them by himself” treatment already 🥴

People so use to "superteams" that when a team builds a team the old fashioned way we wanna say they got no help.

They built the team around him and surrounded him with players that suit him. He's got excellent help in the form of a solid set of role players. Give me that over one all star and a collection of trash every time.

[J_Posse]

Re: Western Conference Playoffs - 2nd Round Discussion Thread

When was this?

As for who the best player in the league is…that changes every year/playoffs depending on who it is.



Not y’all trying to give him the Lebron “He ain’t got much help and he’s carrying them by himself” treatment already [emoji3061]

Someone posted the preseason ESPN top ten list and Cima argued that LeBron & KD would still be above them (on his list).

He argued that Embiid and Joker hadn't done enough in the playoffs, yet. That LeBron & KD's resumes somehow mean they haven't regressed physically and/or skill-wise.

I think we are past the point of arguing anyone is close to Giannis, Joel, and Nikola. They are clearly the three best players and anyone trying to argue otherwise is in denial, IMO.

Official HQ of Bills Backer/Spurs Nation

[ProfessaPackMan]

Re: Western Conference Playoffs - 2nd Round Discussion Thread

Someone posted the preseason ESPN top ten list and Cima argued that LeBron & KD would still be above them (on his list).

He argued that Embiid and Joker hadn't done enough in the playoffs, yet. That LeBron & KD's resumes somehow mean they haven't regressed physically and/or skill-wise.

Official HQ of Bills Backer/Spurs Nation

Ehhh Saying he’d take Lebron/KD over Embiid/Jokic isn’t some outlandish/controversial take, lol. I can see if he said something like “Oh, I’d take John Collins and Jimmy Butler > Embiid/Jokic) lol

And the other 2(as of now and when that statement was made)haven’t done much in the playoffs, especially Embiid.

But like I said, people change their list/ranking every playoffs/round.

People so use to "superteams" that when a team builds a team the old fashioned way we wanna say they got no help.



They built the team around him and surrounded him with players that suit him. He's got excellent help in the form of a solid set of role players. Give me that over one all star and a collection of trash every time.

There’s different ways to build a team.

There’s no 100% right or wrong way because most of the time there’s always going to different factors in how far your team goes or doesn’t go.

[TMagic]

Re: Western Conference Playoffs - 2nd Round Discussion Thread

Not y’all trying to give him the Lebron “He ain’t got much help and he’s carrying them by himself” treatment already [emoji3061]

That is a bit of logical fallacy Pack lol

Saying Jokic is elevating average talent to an unbelievable level does not equate to anyone thinking he doesn't have help or is doing it by himself. Those two statements are not the same. Lol

It's giving Jokic the credit that he definitely deserves. It's looking at both current and historically contending teams and seeing how "meh" his team his supporting cast is by comparison. It's acknowledging that his team isn't even as "talented" as the teams hes beaten...

TWOLVES...
Conley- All Star, Vet
Edwards- All Star, Top 20 scorer, #1 pick
KAT- Multi All Star, Top 20 Scorer, All NBA, #1 pick
Gobert- Multi DPOY, Multi All Star, All NBA

SUNS...
Durant- Speaks for itself
Booker- Speaks for itself
Ayton- #1 pick (worth mentioning lol)

Joker LITERALLY doesn't have ANY of that on his team. I guess KCP can fill the "vet" role? Lol

I don't believe anyone is saying his teammates are trash. They're just replacement level talent. Hell, I honestly can't remember a SINGLE name on their bench without looking it up as I sit here writing this out [emoji23]

And its not that they aren't contributing. Of course they are. No ones saying that. They are simply overachieving by a mile...Being the #1 seed; beating a "super" team, being in the WCF...that's a testament to just how damn good Jokic is

It's super impressive. Not intended to be taken any other way

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[cima]

Re: Western Conference Playoffs - 2nd Round Discussion Thread

Someone posted the preseason ESPN top ten list and Cima argued that LeBron & KD would still be above them (on his list).

He argued that Embiid and Joker hadn't done enough in the playoffs, yet. That LeBron & KD's resumes somehow mean they haven't regressed physically and/or skill-wise.

I think we are past the point of arguing anyone is close to Giannis, Joel, and Nikola. They are clearly the three best players and anyone trying to argue otherwise is in denial, IMO.

Official HQ of Bills Backer/Spurs Nation

I said what? When was this? [emoji23] I have no recollection of this list or conversation


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[ojandpizza]

Western Conference Playoffs - 2nd Round Discussion Thread

In defense to Joker’s cast, their biggest issue has been a healthy Murray. He’s not made All-NBA teams, or All-Star teams, and they really managed his work load this year coming back from that injury. But every decent postseason run they’ve had he’s played at an All-Star level guy. Can’t have a dude out there hanging 40+ on teams and also say his help is minimal because of lack of regular season awards.

Gordon, KCP, Brown all had career years. That is largely because they are playing with Jokic, but they are the perfect “role players” to pair next to him. Idk how you split the credit, to me it’s no coincidence that they’ve played their best ball next to Jokic. But at the same time if we’re comparing this to other kinda “carry jobs” I would say their ceiling next to Joker is probably higher than cast mates that played with guys like Bron, KG, or David Robinson in the 90s. Gordon for example has great hands and is one of the best finishers in the league. He needed to learn to cut off Jokic, but having those abilities before building that chemistry made him far better than most “replacement players” they could possibly land as a 4th option level guy. I know the post didn’t mean to break off into comparisons, but in the context of this talk Bron or KG was only going to be able to get so much more out of guys like Mo Williams and say Wally Szczerbiak. Bron similarly had JJ Hickson looking solid, but he was no Aaron Gordon on his own.

On/off splits have valued him as one of (if not the most) valuable players to his teams success since we’ve had those stats. Which you could use to label him as the ultimate “carry” player we’ve seen in this era. But I would argue that stylistically they would likely not be quite as bad as those stats show if they ran more action through Murray through the regular season the way they do in the playoffs and he was actually healthy. Denver was also so good this year that some of those minutes likely include him going to the bench early with a big lead and the back-up squad blowing the lead. For example his on-off splits were even better this year than last year and last year they truly were *** outside him.

I do think Denver’s reliance on Jokic and his impact right now is tops in the league. I said that when I was saying he would have my vote for MVP again if I had a vote. But I do think that changes to an extent in the playoffs. A bigger offensive load for Murray, excellent defense in that last series from Gordon, KCP, Brown. He’s probably got a bit more “help” than it seems. Him being able to maximize those guys and seemingly always make the right plays, the smart plays, is really comparable to prior years from guys like Bron, CP3, an aspect that Giannis probably doesn’t quite have nailed down.

I do second the notion (or 3rd, 4th, idk how many agreed with the original post lol) that even with the 2 MVPs, being in the running for 3-straight, etc it does feel like he’s still undervalued or under appreciated for how good he’s been over these past 3-4 years. I can’t really think of another player who has had a stretch like that, with crazy playoff runs to go with it, who hasn’t immediately been thrown into premature “top 10” talks like the case with Jokic. If he sustains this I suspect and almost Tim Duncan type of acknowledgement where people sing his praises more after he’s played 15 years and is past his prime than they did when he was arguably the best player in the league.

[ProfessaPackMan]

Re: Western Conference Playoffs - 2nd Round Discussion Thread

That is a bit of logical fallacy Pack lol

Saying Jokic is elevating average talent to an unbelievable level does not equate to anyone thinking he doesn't have help or is doing it by himself. Those two statements are not the same. Lol

It's giving Jokic the credit that he definitely deserves. It's looking at both current and historically contending teams and seeing how "meh" his team his supporting cast is by comparison. It's acknowledging that his team isn't even as "talented" as the teams hes beaten...

TWOLVES...
Conley- All Star, Vet
Edwards- All Star, Top 20 scorer, #1 pick
KAT- Multi All Star, Top 20 Scorer, All NBA, #1 pick
Gobert- Multi DPOY, Multi All Star, All NBA

SUNS...
Durant- Speaks for itself
Booker- Speaks for itself
Ayton- #1 pick (worth mentioning lol)

Joker LITERALLY doesn't have ANY of that on his team. I guess KCP can fill the "vet" role? Lol

I don't believe anyone is saying his teammates are trash. They're just replacement level talent. Hell, I honestly can't remember a SINGLE name on their bench without looking it up as I sit here writing this out [emoji23]

And its not that they aren't contributing. Of course they are. No ones saying that. They are simply overachieving by a mile...Being the #1 seed; beating a "super" team, being in the WCF...that's a testament to just how damn good Jokic is

It's super impressive. Not intended to be taken any other way

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Don’t think it was intended but you still did.

Or maybe you’re just underrating some of the players on the team idk