Ricky Davis vs Ben Gordon

[APD0290]

Player A: 16.1 PPG, 3 RPG, 3 APG, 1.06 SPG, 46.2 FG%, +13.31 EFF

Player B: 15.1 PPG, 2.6 RPG, 2 APG, 0.65 SPG, 41.1 FG%, +10.15 EFF

If player A loses the Sixth Man of the Year award to Player B, I'll be a little disappointed.

[dales]

Re: Ricky Davis vs Ben Gordon

I can tell you right now that Player A is Ricky but he won't win it because of what Gordon has done in the 4th quarter this year. But Ricky D has been great this whole year. Obviously he just needed a change of scenery.

[Sully]

Re: Ricky Davis vs Ben Gordon

You shouldn't be disappointed. You left out one HUGE stat:

Davis plays 33 minutes per game

Gordon only plays 24 minutes per game.

[Dice]

Re: Ricky Davis vs Ben Gordon

Player A: 16.1 PPG, 3 RPG, 3 APG, 1.06 SPG, 46.2 FG%, +13.31 EFF

Player B: 15.1 PPG, 2.6 RPG, 2 APG, 0.65 SPG, 41.1 FG%, +10.15 EFF

If player A loses the Sixth Man of the Year award to Player B, I'll be a little disappointed.

Player A: 32.9 minutes/game = 23.3 points/48 minutes

Player B: 24.4 minutes/game = 29.6 point/48 minutes

More production from player B in less amount of time. Not disappointing to me.

[ShaKobe]

Re: Ricky Davis vs Ben Gordon

Player A: 32.9 minutes/game = 23.3 points/48 minutes

Player B: 24.4 minutes/game = 29.6 point/48 minutes

More production from player B in less amount of time. Not disappointing to me.

I was just going to bring that up. That's a huge point in this. Minutes for a 6th man shouldn't be more than 30. It shouldn't even be more than 28. Cause that means you're playing over half the game. And those are basically starter minutes you're taking.

But like I said in another thread, Gordon is my choice for 6th man.

[APD0290]

Re: Ricky Davis vs Ben Gordon

There's got to be some reason as to why Gordon doesn't play as much as Ricky. I'll admit I've only seen the Bulls play the Celts a few times, and I really wasn't paying much attention to how Gordon plays. Does he have a conditioning problem? Plays no defense? I think it's Duhon who starts over him because of his defense, correct?

I can understand how somebody could make an argument for Gordon because of fourth quarter scoring and the fact that he plays 9 less minutes per game than Ricky. But Ben also ranks 6th in turnovers per 48 minutes, and is 4th in field goal attempts per 48 minutes.

Both are deserving, but Ricky edges Ben out in just about every per-game average. I guess it just depends on what matters more to the voters, stats per game or per 48 minutes.

[tc23]

Re: Ricky Davis vs Ben Gordon

from what i understand, its because gordon provides a spark off the bench and paxson doesnt want to mess w/chemisty. It was the same w/the chandler/curry thing. Curry would start, but Tyson is that spark off the bench that would be there at the end. I'd imagine that Gordon will be a starter next season.


EDIT: and yes , Duhon is way better defensively. If he can develop an offense, he will have a very nice career to say the least.

[luv_mist]

Re: Ricky Davis vs Ben Gordon

from what i understand, its because gordon provides a spark off the bench and paxson doesnt want to mess w/chemisty. It was the same w/the chandler/curry thing. Curry would start, but Tyson is that spark off the bench that would be there at the end. I'd imagine that Gordon will be a starter next season.


EDIT: and yes , Duhon is way better defensively. If he can develop an offense, he will have a very nice career to say the least.

Well, Chris has developed an offense which is shown more and more. He is becoming what Ben is somewhat with his shooting and driving. I really think that bench players are underrated. I use to be a starter but I like coming off the bench myself. I'm no NBA star but I understand that to help out my team, I might have to take a spot that I feel I shouldn't be. Ben just doesn't provide the precise defensive spark we need. He's the offensive spark. Just like Tyson isn't an offensive spark that we need. He does the defense with the blocks and rebounding.

On that team, Ben has stepped up beyond spectation of so many others. He just deserves it because he didn't push his way into the system but worked with it to increase the system. I like Ricky Davis but I've seen so many games where Ben has gotten the Bulls out of the ditch without forcing too much. Just taking the shots he needed to take. He even inspired others to believe. Plus, him being a clutch player with such significantly smaller minutes really makes him a push for the number one spot. Also, most of the good players rank highest in turnover because they handle the balls at significant times or handle it more than the other players. Look at the turnover column and see for yourself.

[Jodaddy]

Re: Ricky Davis vs Ben Gordon

It's not just how many points Ben Gordon has scored in the 4th quarter. It's how many games he's nearly single-handedly won in the 4th quarter.

[Dice]

Re: Ricky Davis vs Ben Gordon

There's got to be some reason as to why Gordon doesn't play as much as Ricky. I'll admit I've only seen the Bulls play the Celts a few times, and I really wasn't paying much attention to how Gordon plays. Does he have a conditioning problem? Plays no defense? I think it's Duhon who starts over him because of his defense, correct?

I can understand how somebody could make an argument for Gordon because of fourth quarter scoring and the fact that he plays 9 less minutes per game than Ricky. But Ben also ranks 6th in turnovers per 48 minutes, and is 4th in field goal attempts per 48 minutes.

Both are deserving, but Ricky edges Ben out in just about every per-game average. I guess it just depends on what matters more to the voters, stats per game or per 48 minutes.

One of the big reasons why Ben doesn't play as much is because he gets into foul trouble early in games. Skiles has to keep him out for some minutes in the first half because he gets himself in those situations. Ben is no good to us if he's fouled out of the game in the middle of the 3rd quarter.

[Jebby]

Re: Ricky Davis vs Ben Gordon

You shouldn't be disappointed. You left out one HUGE stat:

Davis plays 33 minutes per game

Gordon only plays 24 minutes per game.

Exactly! Case dismissed.

[BTB]

Re: Ricky Davis vs Ben Gordon

How many games has Gordon gone 0-7 in the fourth quarter and ruined his team's chances of winning though? Those games never get any attention paid to them. Ricky has been way more consistent than Gordon all year, and he's a much better defensive player as well. If you are going to bring up minutes, I'm going to bring up defense. Ricky has done a hell of a job this year, especially in clutch situations (denying Rip Hamilton, blocking Lebron James), and Gordon doesn't play ANY defense. In fact, one of our games against Chicago was won simply because of the Ricky vs Gordon matchup in the 4th. Ricky continually posted him up and got easy buckets and then stopped him at the other end.

[ChicagoNVA]

Re: Ricky Davis vs Ben Gordon

Ben Gordon's Impact off the Bench > Ricky Davis Impact off the bench.

[cima]

Re: Ricky Davis vs Ben Gordon

Ricky Davis is basically a starter. He plays starters minutes and usually comes into games right away. Gordon will win it.

[Jodaddy]

Re: Ricky Davis vs Ben Gordon

How many games has Gordon gone 0-7 in the fourth quarter and ruined his team's chances of winning though? Those games never get any attention paid to them. Ricky has been way more consistent than Gordon all year, and he's a much better defensive player as well. If you are going to bring up minutes, I'm going to bring up defense. Ricky has done a hell of a job this year, especially in clutch situations (denying Rip Hamilton, blocking Lebron James), and Gordon doesn't play ANY defense. In fact, one of our games against Chicago was won simply because of the Ricky vs Gordon matchup in the 4th. Ricky continually posted him up and got easy buckets and then stopped him at the other end.

I'll tell you right now that Gordon has never ruined the Bulls' chances at winning by going 0-7 in the 4th quarter. If he has, I missed it.

I agree with you that Gordon can't play D. But his offense, combined with his clutch-play, has won the Bulls many games they never would have won last year. IMO, without Gordon, the Bulls would probably not be in the playoffs right now.