Wow,more fallout from the VC trade

[Vince]

Re: Wow,more fallout from the VC trade

Who's Pete Babcock?

Rob Babcock's bro.He single handedly ruined the Hawks Franchise with some terrible drafting decisions...

[tdawgg]

Re: Wow,more fallout from the VC trade

Babcock has definitely gotta go. But I think the Raps should keep Jalen because who else is going to score down the stretch? Bosh is definitely improving but he still doesn't take the ball or demand it late in the game.

If they trade Jalen and Donyell leaves this offseason, we're left with Mo Pete and Rafer taking game winning shots? Boy, is this team gonna be in bigger trouble. Hopefully, some miracle happens and the Raps end up with a high draft pick. And let's hope we don't mess up this year's first rounder as well.

[VanCitySportsGuy]

Re: Wow,more fallout from the VC trade

To be fair to Babcock, that Blazers offer would have been a terrible trade.

Raptor fans would be more furious with that deal than the Nets deal. Reef was set to become a FA and Anderson still has some years left on his contract. A Rose/Carter for Anderson/Reef trade doesn't create a lot of cap space for the Raps. Only Anderson would still be on the team next season.

I'd rather take the 2 first rounders than a player that is on the downside of his career.

Basically VC screwed over the Raps by going public with his trade demand. Once word got out, Babs was in a position of weakness. No team is going to pay 100 cents on the dollar when you know the player wants out and the club is struggling.

[Yosemite Dan]

Re: Wow,more fallout from the VC trade

Actually when the trade went down I didn't think it was that bad because at that point VC had become so pathetic with effort that it was additon by subtraction. I also assumed 2 things 1) that Babcock had thought this through and actually had a plan in mind to trade Zo to perhaps Miami for something of value and 2) he actually knew the background of Eric Williams signing in NJ and that he would be very upset at being traded. Williams is a serviceable player but I didn't know he wanted to be with his son in NJ who is motherless but that's something Babcock should of known if he did his homework since he is the GM.

One big problem with trading Carter was the timing. He should of been traded in the summer like Tmac was and since it didn't happen he should have waited until the deadline which I'm sure would of gotten better value. The only defense to that is Carter was on the IL and he seemed to panic which given Carter's history with injuries I couldn't blame him.

The other big problem was Carter played so poorly that his value was very low. No one thought he would play so well in NJ so now it blew up in his face. The only positive being that Carter's rep around the league was severely damaged by his half assed play in Toronto for the last 3 years that the better he keeps playing in NJ the worse he actually looks. He'll be continually hounded about in interviews which he deserves since he was stupid enough to actually admit it. Given Carter's track record NJ fans better enjoy it while they can as Carter is too inherently lazy to keep it up and if Kidd leaves it will happen sooner than later as it gives him an excuse to drag his ***.

While I was willing to give Babcock the benefit of the doubt with the delicate Carter situation all other moves he's made just confirms that he's way in over his head.

[VanCitySportsGuy]

Re: Wow,more fallout from the VC trade

One big problem with trading Carter was the timing. He should of been traded in the summer like Tmac was and since it didn't happen he should have waited until the deadline which I'm sure would of gotten better value. The only defense to that is Carter was on the IL and he seemed to panic which given Carter's history with injuries I couldn't blame him.

First off I disagree when you say TMac should have been traded in the summer. I course I assume you're talking about the summer prior to his last season with the Raps. The Raps had just come off a promising season where they almost finished .500 for the first time in franchise history. Don't forget while T-Mac played well he wasn't anywhere near being considered a star player. The Raps would have sent out the message to their fans that they can't keep their own talent if they dealt T-Mac in the summer. He didn't bust out until his final year with the Raps.

As for VC it's easy to look back and say VC should have been dealt last summer. I remember talking to my fellow Rap fans who balked at the idea of a rumoured Allen for Carter deal from the Toronto papers (which wouldn't have worked under the CBA). The majority of the fans (myself included) hoped and believed VC would deliver after KO was canned and a new uptempo system was brought in. Of course it didn't work out that way.

I'm pretty upset at the VC trade at this moment but this could change if the draft picks pan out. But my optimism is tempered when I realize who's in charge of making those selections.

[Yosemite Dan]

Re: Wow,more fallout from the VC trade

First off I disagree when you say TMac should have been traded in the summer. I course I assume you're talking about the summer prior to his last season with the Raps. The Raps had just come off a promising season where they almost finished .500 for the first time in franchise history. Don't forget while T-Mac played well he wasn't anywhere near being considered a star player. The Raps would have sent out the message to their fans that they can't keep their own talent if they dealt T-Mac in the summer. He didn't bust out until his final year with the Raps.

As for VC it's easy to look back and say VC should have been dealt last summer. I remember talking to my fellow Rap fans who balked at the idea of a rumoured Allen for Carter deal from the Toronto papers (which wouldn't have worked under the CBA). The majority of the fans (myself included) hoped and believed VC would deliver after KO was canned and a new uptempo system was brought in. Of course it didn't work out that way.

I'm pretty upset at the VC trade at this moment but this could change if the draft picks pan out. But my optimism is tempered when I realize who's in charge of making those selections.

Actually I meant when Tmac was traded in the summer by Orlando rather than have him pull a Carter and tank during the season and drive his value down which them being cousins probably would of happened. Not to mention you had injury concerns with Carter before the season knowing that he would be typically out of shape and miss a few games.

VC was playing indifferent with Toronto for the last 2+ years. his FG% was going down, he rarely drove to the basket and his defence was horrible. The reason his PPG was still high was because he was getting all the touches but it didn't contribute to them winning anymore than this year. He was being half assed it was just hidden better then and his stock was not high around the league although I never thought it could be as bad as what we ended getting from NJ.

If you look at any drafting history there's a small chance that a #16 pick from Philly and a very probable late pick from Denver for next year will amount to much regardless of who is picking them. Mid to late round picks produce very few quality starters never mind diamonds in the rough.