Shaq at it again

[aholbert32]

Re: Shaq at it again

Im talking Shaq played more games than Kobe those last 2 years everyone called him fat (you know, when they lost). I said it in my previous post, those 2 years. Now if you look those stats up and tell me Im shaky I'll concede, but Shaq played more games.

Shaq has always been the more important commodity than Kobe, including now with him on the decline.

The jury is still out, I dont disagree, but for the bogus reasons Buss gave the city of LA, I dont agree with the deceit.

Kobe 82 + 65= 147 games

Shaq 67 + 67= 132 games

Kobe played more games then Shaq those years

[23]

Re: Shaq at it again

[QUOTE=nkhera1]

If you read my post I would have said as of their results this year Shaq would have been the better choice,

Im not talking this year, but period. He got LA and ORL to the finals.. he's made Miami an instant contender... that's results man.

but if Shaq had stayed he would still be fat and this would be the team's starting lineup

PG-Gary Payton
SG-Kareem Rush
SF-Devean George
PF-Karl Malone
C-Shaq

Bench
Tierre Brown
Madvedenko
Russel
Walton
Fox

Rush gone, replace him with Damon Jones, George is hurt, and you can replace him with a SF.. bring Zo over for the vets minimum... bring in Dooling.. let tierrible go. Russel was gone anyhow.. Fox is an expiring deal you trade. Guys want to play with Shaq. They took paycuts to play with him.. That team you posted would have never stepped on the floor together.

You are telling me this team is going to contend in the west. What happens when shaq missed the 15+ games that he usually misses, plus this team wasn't going to do much in the playoffs especially in the west. Plus after this they would have to give a 30 million extension for about 2 to 3 years for a 32 year old 370 pound player. Sure they probably would have made the playoffs, but i'm pretty sure they wouldn't do much. Also this team would be a mess in about 2 to 3 years max.

As long as you have Shaq, you always have a chance, and most of the time an advantage.

Yes he played great, but when he could have been better I can't see how you can't criticize him. You know his conditioning wasn't the best he could easily get beat on pick and role and the reason why he had such a good year this year is because he lost the weight. If shaq had kept his weight he had with the Lakers there is no way they would be able to play for as long as he wanted to. Funny thing is if Kobe came to camp fat you would be one of the first ones to criticize even if he did post results. Also Kobe had a pretty good year compared to most other shooting guards though his turnovers were up, but he had about the same amount of turnovers as dwayne wade and shot about the same percentage as t-mac.

Im not on Shaqs side dont get me wrong, but the propaganda from Buss was just not right. The backstabbing, the lies,etc... that's my gripe.
I dont give a dime about how Kobe comes to camp

I criticized both of them for their attitudes for years... Im not a shaq fanboy and neither a kobe homer. I cheered for both of these guys at one time, and their attitudes went sour.. and so did my respect.

Both of them have game, but dont give me that fat stuff man. Noone can stop Shaq period, Noone ever did. Still cant. I dont care what Kobe shot, no Shaq, and he got shut down by rookies and burned by bench players.

Dont even compare Kobes year to those other upper teir guys. He played like trash this year. His D collapsed and he disappeared in many 4th qtr and 2nd half of a ton of games. He pulled a Tmac from last year... they lost 19 of the last 21 games the leader was called out by the coach just as much as the other guys were. He still wont take responsibility for it either... he doesnt deserve all of the blame, but some of it yes..

Also you mention Shaq played more games, that was due to the case which pretty much everyone knew was going to be settled. Yes Kobe was injured more this year, but if shaq was injured this team would have been swept in the first round (though at least its better than not making it). However, I'll ask you this again. If you are a gm and you can choose between a great but fat, aging center who is injury prone, wants lost of money and hasn't lost weight in many years (when asked repeatedly) or you could have the best shooting guard at the time and build a team around him, which one would you pick. It may have backfired, but Buss made the smart decision at the time. He went long term rather than have this team make the playoffs in the short term but probably not do much after that. Also things could have been different if the Lakers didn't get such a bad deal from the Heat. I have been one of the first to criticize kobe for many of his faults but at the time it seemed like a solid idea.

Again let me tell you, I could care less that they traded Shaq. I looked forward to the day. But dont lie to this city, the fans, backstab players and coaches, and flip flop on the reasons you did it. We arent stupid. If you didnt want to keep him for Kobe just say it.. dont give me the fat thing.

People arent blindly stupid like zombies

[23]

Re: Shaq at it again

Kobe 82 + 65= 147 games

Shaq 67 + 67= 132 games

Kobe played more games then Shaq those years

You have me on one year.. I concede. The year he was the so called fattest, he played more, won more. Right?

[aholbert32]

Re: Shaq at it again

You have me on one year.. I concede. The year he was the so called fattest, he played more, won more. Right?

He won more but that was because Kobe's injury was more severe. The two years before that Kobe played practically every game.

[23]

Re: Shaq at it again

I mean the teams record with and without those guys each at the time.

[Slip]

Re: Shaq at it again

Rush gone, replace him with Damon Jones, George is hurt, and you can replace him with a SF.. bring Zo over for the vets minimum... bring in Dooling.. let tierrible go. Russel was gone anyhow.. Fox is an expiring deal you trade. Guys want to play with Shaq. They took paycuts to play with him.. That team you posted would have never stepped on the floor together.

Not to mention anyone they may have nabbed from a Sign and Trade involving Kobe.....but nooooo, Kupchek would NEVER trade Kobe....however it would be a "sad day in Laker history if he traded shaq".....the words that started it all.

And Buss wants to extend this guys contract.

[guysmiley1463]

Re: Shaq at it again

KDRE so shaq was able to recruit karl and gp but he was still way overweight. Shouldn't 30 million a year be justification for being in shape. Also before this year I could see why Buss would want to stick with Kobe. Which would you rather have: A 32 year old 375 pound center who takes a pounding and has never sucessfully played more than 50+ games in the past few years or pretty much the best shooting guard at the time (not saying he is right now).

Comments like this can be worded to sound the total opposite. I can in turn say why would you want someone who always forces out of control shots, shoots low fg%, arguably a cancer to teamates, compared to one of the most dominant forces on the court all time.

Point is there were negatives to either decision and in the Business World, you have to take a gamble and hope you make the right one. Right now in May 2005, it doesn't seem like Buss did. Simple! You might say he was looking at the future, hell, we can say that for anything, who's to say Kobe won't tear his ACL and be out for the whole year next year. Or who's to say Shaq will be done in 2 years......We never know what will happen in the future. You have to take a gamble. Buss did and so far he is losing...

[nkhera1]

Re: Shaq at it again

Im not talking this year, but period. He got LA and ORL to the finals.. he's made Miami an instant contender... that's results man.

But how good would he have done if he hadn't have lost 60 pounds. There is no doubt he would still be pretty good, but Buss wasn't guaranteed that if he kept Shaq he would have a totally fit Shaq being Shaq hadn't been able to lost that much weight in his previous 3 years.

Rush gone, replace him with Damon Jones, George is hurt, and you can replace him with a SF.. bring Zo over for the vets minimum... bring in Dooling.. let tierrible go. Russel was gone anyhow.. Fox is an expiring deal you trade. Guys want to play with Shaq. They took paycuts to play with him.. That team you posted would have never stepped on the floor together.

Zo was with the Nets and probably wouldn't have come. There are a lot of what ifs. What if the Lakers had signed Damon Jones, what if the lakers had kept Rush. there is no point saying that because anything could have happened. What if Kobe went to the Clippers and they signed Steve nash as well.

As long as you have Shaq, you always have a chance, and most of the time an advantage.

He helps but his team in Miami still won games without him (not saying they could make the playoffs without him). However with the team he would have had, in the West that would have been very difficult. I don't even think they would have been a top 4 team.

Im not on Shaqs side dont get me wrong, but the propaganda from Buss was just not right. The backstabbing, the lies,etc... that's my gripe.
I dont give a dime about how Kobe comes to camp

I criticized both of them for their attitudes for years... Im not a shaq fanboy and neither a kobe homer. I cheered for both of these guys at one time, and their attitudes went sour.. and so did my respect.

What backstabbing according to Shaq this is a so called business and stuff happens. Buss said he would take care of Shaq if he brought in GP and Karl Malone (btw I've never heard Buss verify this, so your pretty much just listening to one side of the story) but if Shaq was going to postpone sugereies until the season, complain about other players, and come into camp fat it does kind of create some skeptisim especially as he got older. Plus Shaq has had a track record of getting worse not better. And if you have criticized Shaq then it is my bad, I've just never seen it on these boards.

Both of them have game, but dont give me that fat stuff man. Noone can stop Shaq period, Noone ever did. Still cant. I dont care what Kobe shot, no Shaq, and he got shut down by rookies and burned by bench players.

A fat unmotivaed Shaq can stop himself and that is enough. Also I didn't watch every Lakers game so I can't comment but by looking at stats he seemed alright and I would like for you to mention some of the rookies who shut him down (yes but not watching his games I could not see how bad his defense and other stuff was). Also I have acknowledged that Bryant has some flaws in his game, but at least with him you know he is going to try to improve when hes not being a *******.

Dont even compare Kobes year to those other upper teir guys. He played like trash this year. His D collapsed and he disappeared in many 4th qtr and 2nd half of a ton of games. He pulled a Tmac from last year... they lost 19 of the last 21 games the leader was called out by the coach just as much as the other guys were. He still wont take responsibility for it either... he doesnt deserve all of the blame, but some of it yes..

Funny even with a year like he had it was still better than most other peoples, and also i rarely saw you call out t-mac for his horrible year last year (maybe you did but i don't remember). I agree he deserves some blame but maybe you watch that episode on ESPN called top 5 reasons not to blame Kobe for the breakup of the Lakers. I didn't see it all, but reason number 2 was Phil Jackson and reason number 1 was Shaq's big contract and laziness.

Again let me tell you, I could care less that they traded Shaq. I looked forward to the day. But dont lie to this city, the fans, backstab players and coaches, and flip flop on the reasons you did it. We arent stupid. If you didnt want to keep him for Kobe just say it.. dont give me the fat thing.

People arent blindly stupid like zombies

When did they lie? I assume they said they were getting into the playoffs so that may count as a lie but nobody predicted them to have the drop off they did. Also I assume you mean they didn't want to keep Shaq. Buss had said he didn't want to keep Shaq because of his contract unless he told you something different which I may not have caught.

Bottom line is Buss was forced to pick between a great, but aging, whining, fat 32 year old who didn't look like he was goint to get better or the best shooting guard at the time. The move may have backfired as of now, but this is more than a one year thing. Maybe if the Lakers hadn't gotten ripped of so bad they could have made the playoffs.

[23]

Re: Shaq at it again

Look man, no need to try to re-answer that long post. Fact is, players take paycuts to play with Shaq.

Shaq has made every team he played on a contender

Shaq made Jerry Buss alot of money

Shaq's antics were accepted by a whole lot of Lakers fans, some of which are now complaining about those same antics.

Shaq's team is in the playoffs with what the 2nd 3rd best record in the league.

Jerry Buss was in full damage control mode at that press conference.

I dont care about a trade, but dont try to smear a guy to cover your behind.

There has been so many excuses why they made the worst trade in sports history that they wont even admit they messed up.

Defend it all you want man. I'm watching the Heat play the winner of this Bulls Wiz series after tonight.

[nkhera1]

Re: Shaq at it again

Look man, no need to try to re-answer that long post. Fact is, players take paycuts to play with Shaq.

Shaq has made every team he played on a contender

Shaq made Jerry Buss alot of money

Shaq's antics were accepted by a whole lot of Lakers fans, some of which are now complaining about those same antics.

Shaq's team is in the playoffs with what the 2nd 3rd best record in the league.

Jerry Buss was in full damage control mode at that press conference.

I dont care about a trade, but dont try to smear a guy to cover your behind.

There has been so many excuses why they made the worst trade in sports history that they wont even admit they messed up.

Defend it all you want man. I'm watching the Heat play the winner of this Bulls Wiz series after tonight.

Lol talk about my reading comprehension being wack. Were did I say that Shaq didn't have a better year. What i've been trying to say is that Jerry Buss had to make a decision and he picked Kobe (which other people have agreed with though the results haven't panned out yet). He either could have looked brilliant or he could have looked stupid and as of now he is looking stupid. He has made every team a contender but he is aging and not many players get better as they age after the age of 30 especially in basketball. I agree that they made a bad trade, but in the end they had to pick one and we'll see what happens in the end. As of this year the move lookes bad but Buss did it for the long haul not just one year.

[23]

Re: Shaq at it again

I agree with all of that, and said nothing to the contrary, but my orignal point again, was that he didnt have to lie about it if that's what he wanted. Be a man and say you didnt want him anymore... dont try to smash the guy in the media to make it appear you're making him look bad.

Does that make sense?

Shaq's numbers now arent much different than they were last year.. and Dr Buss has been lying since he traded the guy


Now again.. care to join me in the OS chat room to watch the Heat play in the 2nd round?