Floyd Dissing Sugar Ray..

[grunt]

Re: Floyd Dissing Sugar Ray..

The only difference between Floyd and Ray is that Ray had a Hearns, Hagler, and Duran. Floyd does not have those guys in his era, he beat every notable fighter of his time soundly. DLH is the closest anyone ever came and lets not forget he moved up to take this fight. Who has Floyd ducked that is worthy of note? Margarito? who had trouble with a one haded Clottey? Hatton? who cheated Collazo out of a win?

I have nothing but the utmost respect for Ray, but we are talking about a fighter who is lightning fast and extremely talented. Tell me one fight where Floyd looked fatigued? Who has put Floyd on his back? He has embarrased 95% of the fighters put in front of him. What am I missing?

Cool. Who do you think would win between Floyd and Sugar Ray?

[Complex]

Re: Floyd Dissing Sugar Ray..

Cool. Who do you think would win between Floyd and Sugar Ray?

To be honest I think it would come down to the judges. Ray is battle tested and has great gifts. Floyd is fast but extremly intelligent in the ring, he always seems in control of the situation. The judges would determine the outcome of this one.

[ObiWanJenkins]

Re: Floyd Dissing Sugar Ray..

The only difference between Floyd and Ray is that Ray had a Hearns, Hagler, and Duran. Floyd does not have those guys in his era, he beat every notable fighter of his time soundly. DLH is the closest anyone ever came and lets not forget he moved up to take this fight. Who has Floyd ducked that is worthy of note? Margarito? who had trouble with a one haded Clottey? Hatton? who cheated Collazo out of a win?

I have nothing but the utmost respect for Ray, but we are talking about a fighter who is lightning fast and extremely talented. Tell me one fight where Floyd looked fatigued? Who has put Floyd on his back? He has embarrased 95% of the fighters put in front of him. What am I missing?

Who has Mayweather fought while in their prime? And would you consider any of them the best boxing has to offer at the time Floyd fought them?

Don't even talk about ducking. Margarito had trouble with Clottey, but did Floyd step up to fight the best of the best? Absolutely not. Just like Roy Jones Jr., Floyd has carefully picked his opponents and avoided those that might give him trouble.

Floyd Mayweather is an excellent fighter, but in terms of resume, he doesn't hold a candle to Leonard.

[Complex]

Re: Floyd Dissing Sugar Ray..

Who has Mayweather fought while in their prime? And would you consider any of them the best boxing has to offer at the time Floyd fought them?

Don't even talk about ducking. Margarito had trouble with Clottey, but did Floyd step up to fight the best of the best? Absolutely not. Just like Roy Jones Jr., Floyd has carefully picked his opponents and avoided those that might give him trouble.

Floyd Mayweather is an excellent fighter, but in terms of resume, he doesn't hold a candle to Leonard.

Name 3 figthers that Floyd or Roy Jones Jr avoided in their prime?

[grunt]

Re: Floyd Dissing Sugar Ray..

To be honest I think it would come down to the judges. Ray is battle tested and has great gifts. Floyd is fast but extremly intelligent in the ring, he always seems in control of the situation. The judges would determine the outcome of this one.

Cool, but who do you think would win the fight? We have enough tapes on both fighter to speculate.

Duran vs Floyd at 140?

Floyd vs Hearns at 147?

Pernell vs Floyd at 140?

Chavez vs Floyd at 140?

Just want to get feedback.

[ObiWanJenkins]

Re: Floyd Dissing Sugar Ray..

Name 3 figthers that Floyd or Roy Jones Jr avoided in their prime?

Well, Floyd has avoided Margarito and Hatton, who are two fighters that boxing analysts have said would give Floyd trouble in the ring. He hasn't necessarily ducked them, but he hasn't fought the best of his divisions.

Jones never fought Vassily Jirov, Dariusz Michalczeski, Michael Nunn, or gave Bernard Hopkins a rematch. Again, not necessarily ducking, but really no interest in taking on the top rated fighters in his division.

Leonard and the boxers of his era fought everybody and anybody.

[Complex]

Re: Floyd Dissing Sugar Ray..

Well, Floyd has avoided Margarito and Hatton, who are two fighters that boxing analysts have said would give Floyd trouble in the ring. He hasn't necessarily ducked them, but he hasn't fought the best of his divisions.

Jones never fought Vassily Jirov, Dariusz Michalczeski, Michael Nunn, or gave Bernard Hopkins a rematch. Again, not necessarily ducking, but really no interest in taking on the top rated fighters in his division.

Leonard and the boxers of his era fought everybody and anybody.

I asked for 3. I heard out of Hatton's own mouth that he felt he was not ready for Floyd. He stated that himself. Check boxingscene.com in their archives to see if the video still exists.

Margarito has not one impressive win over a well known fighter. What has he done to deserve a payday wih Floyd? When he was put against a C+ level fighter in Clottey he barely got the win, and only because Clottey broke his hand early in the fight. Some think he still lost. Not top talent IMO. Now Margarito finally stoppe ducking Williams after he was called out a year ago on HBO twice.

Floyd beat the Ring Magazine top recognized guys at 147 (Judah and Baldomir). I dont call that ducking. Got any other names?

As for Jones what success has any of the fighters had to warrant a fight. Jones offered Hopkins (still not well known at the time) a 60/40 split. Thats a good split with the P4P fighter at that time. Hopkins killed that fight.

Many of the other fighters you named are not A level fighters. Why did they not fight each other and eliminate confusion? Some of those guys were just looking for paydays. Nunn fought Toney and lost, Jones embarrased Toney who many felt was the top middleweight of that time. Why fight Nunn at all?

[Complex]

Re: Floyd Dissing Sugar Ray..

Cool, but who do you think would win the fight? We have enough tapes on both fighter to speculate.

Duran vs Floyd at 140?

Floyd vs Hearns at 147?

Pernell vs Floyd at 140?

Chavez vs Floyd at 140?

Just want to get feedback.

vs Duran. This fight would go the distance, but would really check Floyd's chin. But I would give it to Floyd if it went to the cards. He would do enough to warrant a UD.

vs Hearns. Floyd is too fast and Hearns could be easily smothered. His advantages was his reach and power in both hands. If Floyd did get caught against the ropes I think it would be good night.

vs Pernell. Floyd takes an L here. Pernell was one of the most gifted fighters I eve laid eyes on. He had natural skills and ability that you just could not teach.

vs Chavez. Hard call. The judges would decide this one.

[ObiWanJenkins]

Re: Floyd Dissing Sugar Ray..

I asked for 3. I heard out of Hatton's own mouth that he felt he was not ready for Floyd. He stated that himself. Check boxingscene.com in their archives to see if the video still exists.

Margarito has not one impressive win over a well known fighter. What has he done to deserve a payday wih Floyd? When he was put against a C+ level fighter in Clottey he barely got the win, and only because Clottey broke his hand early in the fight. Some think he still lost. Not top talent IMO. Now Margarito finally stoppe ducking Williams after he was called out a year ago on HBO twice.

Floyd beat the Ring Magazine top recognized guys at 147 (Judah and Baldomir). I dont call that ducking. Got any other names?

As for Jones what success has any of the fighters had to warrant a fight. Jones offered Hopkins (still not well known at the time) a 60/40 split. Thats a good split with the P4P fighter at that time. Hopkins killed that fight.

Many of the other fighters you named are not A level fighters. Why did they not fight each other and eliminate confusion? Some of those guys were just looking for paydays. Nunn fought Toney and lost, Jones embarrased Toney who many felt was the top middleweight of that time. Why fight Nunn at all?

And you bring up exactly why boxing is in the shape that it's in today. Fighters in the 70's and 80's did not fight just for big paydays. They fought for pride and to be the best of the best. It wasn't just about money.

After his win over Tsu, Hatton talked about Floyd Mayweather and how much he wanted to face him. Mayweather said the fight wasn't big enough.

Margarito ducking someone isn't the issue. Before the Clottey fight, everybody in boxing showed interest in a Margarito fight with Mayweather. Mayweather refused solely because of money and moved on to de la Hoya. Hatton and Margarito are the tops in division right now.

Funny how you totally ignored Jirov and Michalczeski, both considered top fighters, in regards to Jones Jr.. Jones was never even been interested in them because of the gate.

You cannot compare an era where all the top fighters fought each other to the current era where opponents are picked solely on the gate. Leonard, in his prime, would destroy Mayweather in his prime simply because Leonard was battle tested against top competition. Mayweather has not fought the best of the best. He has never tested himself.

[Complex]

Re: Floyd Dissing Sugar Ray..

And you bring up exactly why boxing is in the shape that it's in today. Fighters in the 70's and 80's did not fight just for big paydays. They fought for pride and to be the best of the best. It wasn't just about money.

After his win over Tsu, Hatton talked about Floyd Mayweather and how much he wanted to face him. Mayweather said the fight wasn't big enough.

Margarito ducking someone isn't the issue. Before the Clottey fight, everybody in boxing showed interest in a Margarito fight with Mayweather. Mayweather refused solely because of money and moved on to de la Hoya. Hatton and Margarito are the tops in division right now.

Funny how you totally ignored Jirov and Michalczeski, both considered top fighters, in regards to Jones Jr.. Jones was never even been interested in them because of the gate.

You cannot compare an era where all the top fighters fought each other to the current era where opponents are picked solely on the gate. Leonard, in his prime, would destroy Mayweather in his prime simply because Leonard was battle tested against top competition. Mayweather has not fought the best of the best. He has never tested himself.

The top middle weight during that time was Toney. He was considered the best, Jones dismantled him with ease. Why would he fight guys not considered on the level of Toney? Let them get by Toney first and earn a shot.

Mayweather and Jones are so good, that they make guys look average. Corrales, Corley, Mitchell, Castillo, Judah, Baldomir, Augustus etc are all named fighters. Again, name 3 fighters that Floyd could have fought that have a chance to beat him. I think we both know it isnt Margario, esp after the Clottey fight. Once he lost that, even Cotto ddnt want to fight him.

Hatton left the division, does that sound like he wasnt to fight Floyd?

[ObiWanJenkins]

Re: Floyd Dissing Sugar Ray..

The top middle weight during that time was Toney. He was considered the best, Jones dismantled him with ease. Why would he fight guys not considered on the level of Toney? Let them get by Toney first and earn a shot.

Mayweather and Jones are so good, that they make guys look average. Corrales, Corley, Mitchell, Castillo, Judah, Baldomir, Augustus etc are all named fighters. Again, name 3 fighters that Floyd could have fought that have a chance to beat him. I think we both know it isnt Margario, esp after the Clottey fight. Once he lost that, even Cotto ddnt want to fight him.

Hatton left the division, does that sound like he wasnt to fight Floyd?

Toney was great on paper only. And once again you completely Jirov and Michalczeski when talking about Jones. Jones has always been criticized for the fights he has chosen.

You don't know that Margarito couldn't beat Mayweather, because Mayweather never fought him. Hatton has the perfect style to smother Mayweather. Shane Mosley is another one that could possibly handle Mayweather.

Hatton couldn't get a fight with Mayweather early, so he moved on.

If you want to be a fanboy, then have it. Floyd Mayweather is nowhere near the level on Sugar Ray Leonard and those of his era.

[Brandon13]

Re: Floyd Dissing Sugar Ray..

Floyd would destroy Hatton. I have no doubt about that at all.

[Complex]

Re: Floyd Dissing Sugar Ray..

Toney was great on paper only. And once again you completely Jirov and Michalczeski when talking about Jones. Jones has always been criticized for the fights he has chosen.

You don't know that Margarito couldn't beat Mayweather, because Mayweather never fought him. Hatton has the perfect style to smother Mayweather. Shane Mosley is another one that could possibly handle Mayweather.

Hatton couldn't get a fight with Mayweather early, so he moved on.

If you want to be a fanboy, then have it. Floyd Mayweather is nowhere near the level on Sugar Ray Leonard and those of his era.

Ok, now you trippin. Toney is headed straight to the HOF in boxing. I will put money on that.

Whatever became of the careers of Jirov and Michalczeski? Find that answer and you will know if they were a threat to Jones.

Hatton does not have the perfect style for Floyd. Hatton was outboxed by Collazo who is slower and weaker than Floyd and he was rocked several times when they fought. Hatton only did ONE fight at 147 and left because he did not have the same advantages he had at 140. Lots of top guys at 147 wanted him but Hatton fought none of them. Can we say he is ducking fighters? But again, I heard Hatton say he was not ready for Floyd. You gotta quit getting up in the hype of promotors and the media. If you watched boxing last night you heard Taylor's promoter say they offered Pavlick $850K to fight, and Pavlik says he never got that offer and said he would love to fight Taylor. Listen to the boxers, not the promotors.

I do not even care for Floyd, but I do respect top talent which he is. Compare his resume to Hatton and tell me who has the better resume? Name me five B level or better fighters that Hatton faced or that Jirov and Michalczeski faced?

[grunt]

Re: Floyd Dissing Sugar Ray..

vs Duran. This fight would go the distance, but would really check Floyd's chin. But I would give it to Floyd if it went to the cards. He would do enough to warrant a UD.

vs Hearns. Floyd is too fast and Hearns could be easily smothered. His advantages was his reach and power in both hands. If Floyd did get caught against the ropes I think it would be good night.

vs Pernell. Floyd takes an L here. Pernell was one of the most gifted fighters I eve laid eyes on. He had natural skills and ability that you just could not teach.

vs Chavez. Hard call. The judges would decide this one.

The Hearns fight would be a fun fight because Hearns had the power. Duran at 140 would be a difficult fight for anybody. We both agree on the Pernell because Pernell was an once a life type of fighter.

[edaddy]

Re: Floyd Dissing Sugar Ray..

Ok, now you trippin. Toney is headed straight to the HOF in boxing. I will put money on that.

Whatever became of the careers of Jirov and Michalczeski? Find that answer and you will know if they were a threat to Jones.

Hatton does not have the perfect style for Floyd. Hatton was outboxed by Collazo who is slower and weaker than Floyd and he was rocked several times when they fought. Hatton only did ONE fight at 147 and left because he did not have the same advantages he had at 140. Lots of top guys at 147 wanted him but Hatton fought none of them. Can we say he is ducking fighters? But again, I heard Hatton say he was not ready for Floyd. You gotta quit getting up in the hype of promotors and the media. If you watched boxing last night you heard Taylor's promoter say they offered Pavlick $850K to fight, and Pavlik says he never got that offer and said he would love to fight Taylor. Listen to the boxers, not the promotors.

I do not even care for Floyd, but I do respect top talent which he is. Compare his resume to Hatton and tell me who has the better resume? Name me five B level or better fighters that Hatton faced or that Jirov and Michalczeski faced?

Excellent post man agree 100%..Toney is a HOF caliber fighter, people need to check his record..As far as Hatton you are right he has to be the most overhyped fighter that I have ever seen besides Gerry Cooney of course..LOL..He lost to Collazo period he was outboxed and rocked on several occassions..His defense is suspect at best and nowadays his offense consists of hit smother and hold...imagine what Mayweather would do?..target practice..the fight would last 8 rounds with Hatton being a bloodied mess and getting TKO'd...Mosley are you kidding me?...man his skills are diminishing and he doesnt have the jab or defense to keep Mayweather from busting him up as well..his defense is suspect as well ..Don't let those 2 Vargas fights fool ya..Floyd is a great fighter and will get his due respect when he retires and people actually look at the fighters he has demolished..right now it would take a fighter who has a great jab to offset his speed, and some speed and power to gain Floyds respect..paul williams comes to mind right now but only after another year..his defense is a liability at this point...