Floyd Dissing Sugar Ray..

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  • edaddy
    MVP
    • Jun 2004
    • 2848

    #31
    Re: Floyd Dissing Sugar Ray..

    Originally posted by grunt
    The Hearns fight would be a fun fight because Hearns had the power. Duran at 140 would be a difficult fight for anybody. We both agree on the Pernell because Pernell was an once a life type of fighter.
    I like Hearns in that fight his jab would give Floyd major problems..
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    • Complex
      MVP
      • Oct 2005
      • 2494

      #32
      Re: Floyd Dissing Sugar Ray..

      Originally posted by edaddy
      I like Hearns in that fight his jab would give Floyd major problems..
      I like Hearns but his chin failed him at times. I mean he could take a punch but if you blinked he would be down. Iran Barkley a average fighter floored him in both fights very early. Also Hearns faded down the stretch in fights. Floyd has not shown me he will fade late in a fight, and one thing I love about Floyd is that he never deviates from the gameplan, never loses focus. Seems to always have his head in the game. Reminds me of Ali and Hopkins.

      @ the guy who gave props to Sugar for fighting in 15 round fights, check his record and count how many times his fights went 15 rounds. Its not really worth mentioning.
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      • N51_rob
        Faceuary!
        • Jul 2003
        • 14805

        #33
        Re: Floyd Dissing Sugar Ray..

        I think that part of the problem that people are starting to have with floyd is that he doesn't try to finish his fights in style. His last three fights (Judah, Baldomir, De La Hoya) it seemed that he was clearly up on points in all three (now yes one judge was asleep during the DLH fight IMO) and he didn't try to knock any of these guys out. In each fight i guess there were circumstances, Judah-riot, Baldomire-hand, DLH-it was actually a closerfigh on the cards, butif you know and/or feel that you are up big on points late in a fight shouldn't you go out there and close the show in style?

        I'm not trying to diss Floyd I love watching him box he is one of my favorites, i just feel like he owes it to himslef and fans to go out and try to finish guys off, that is the one thing all the greats did, when they had a guy hurt or knew the fight was theres they would try to finish off the guy and close showes in style.
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        • Complex
          MVP
          • Oct 2005
          • 2494

          #34
          Re: Floyd Dissing Sugar Ray..

          Originally posted by N51_rob
          I think that part of the problem that people are starting to have with floyd is that he doesn't try to finish his fights in style. His last three fights (Judah, Baldomir, De La Hoya) it seemed that he was clearly up on points in all three (now yes one judge was asleep during the DLH fight IMO) and he didn't try to knock any of these guys out. In each fight i guess there were circumstances, Judah-riot, Baldomire-hand, DLH-it was actually a closerfigh on the cards, butif you know and/or feel that you are up big on points late in a fight shouldn't you go out there and close the show in style?

          I'm not trying to diss Floyd I love watching him box he is one of my favorites, i just feel like he owes it to himslef and fans to go out and try to finish guys off, that is the one thing all the greats did, when they had a guy hurt or knew the fight was theres they would try to finish off the guy and close showes in style.
          I think you touched on something important. Floyd calls himself Pretty Boy for a reason. He is not a brawler. His philosophy is being prepared, quick, in shape, and not taking punishment. He is not in the sport to knock folks out the ring, that was his uncle Roger's thing. But he prides himself on being in the game mentality at all times. Boxing is normally won by the guy that has a plan and sticks to it no matter what. He executes, not just throws punches. If you execute in any sport, you give your self the best chance to win. Look at the Pavlik vs Miranda fight this weekend. Pavlik had a plan and rode it out, even when commentators were saying to do something else. What was the result, an impressive KO.
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          • koolbubbaice
            MVP
            • May 2004
            • 2236

            #35
            Re: Floyd Dissing Sugar Ray..

            Originally posted by blackngoldfan
            I doubt that. Mayweather couldn't beat Hearns or Hagler IMO. Fighters of that era had great stamina. Duran beat Sugar Ray by decision in June, only to lose to Sugar Ray 5 months later. They fought so frequently. It was common to see records like "56-3" back then. There was no "ducking" going on back then. To be the best, you had to beat the best; Hagler vs Hearns, Hearns vs Duran, Leonard vs Hearns, Leonard vs Hagler, Benitez vs Leonard, and so on. Let's not forget that these fights were scheduled for 12-15 rounds. I sure would like to see how Mayweather Jr. would've handled being in the 14th round with Sugar Ray.
            At 154lbs Hearns would have beat Floyd. Hearns always had trouble with crude brawlers, ala Brakely & Roldan, but was masterful at beating boxers..
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            • thelwig14
              Banned
              • Jul 2002
              • 3145

              #36
              Re: Floyd Dissing Sugar Ray..

              I am sorry, and I don't mean to sound like some hugger of the old days (which I truly am not), but Hagler, Leonard, Hearns, Duran, Taylor, Chavez, and a few others would all beat PBF. PBF is great, but the above fighters are way too good not to force PBF in a scrap which would be to his ultimate detriment. I am not on the old guys' jock, but like Larry Holmes and Tyson of the 80's, PBF is reigning at the most opportune time to dominate.

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              • Complex
                MVP
                • Oct 2005
                • 2494

                #37
                Re: Floyd Dissing Sugar Ray..

                Originally posted by koolbubbaice
                At 154lbs Hearns would have beat Floyd. Hearns always had trouble with crude brawlers, ala Brakely & Roldan, but was masterful at beating boxers..
                Originally posted by thelwig14
                I am sorry, and I don't mean to sound like some hugger of the old days (which I truly am not), but Hagler, Leonard, Hearns, Duran, Taylor, Chavez, and a few others would all beat PBF. PBF is great, but the above fighters are way too good not to force PBF in a scrap which would be to his ultimate detriment. I am not on the old guys' jock, but like Larry Holmes and Tyson of the 80's, PBF is reigning at the most opportune time to dominate.
                A lot of folks thought Judah or Baldomir would force the action to Floyd but he proved them wrong. Baldomir especially, he keeps coming forward at all cost. But Floyd was able to stay moving and working. I see a Hearns no different. Hagler poses an interesting fight, I would love to see that. Hearns had very suspect defense, which is why guys who force the action have their way with him. Floyd he proved he could brawl a little when he took on Mitchell.
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                • thelwig14
                  Banned
                  • Jul 2002
                  • 3145

                  #38
                  Re: Floyd Dissing Sugar Ray..

                  Originally posted by Complex
                  A lot of folks thought Judah or Baldomir would force the action to Floyd but he proved them wrong. Baldomir especially, he keeps coming forward at all cost. But Floyd was able to stay moving and working. I see a Hearns no different. Hagler poses an interesting fight, I would love to see that. Hearns had very suspect defense, which is why guys who force the action have their way with him. Floyd he proved he could brawl a little when he took on Mitchell.

                  The huge difference is Hearns has a monster reach and has enough speed to be able to continue to connect on PBF. PBF would get owned in the era of the 80's. There is just no other nicer way of saying it.

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                  • Hammerhunker
                    MVP
                    • Mar 2003
                    • 3007

                    #39
                    Re: Floyd Dissing Sugar Ray..

                    Rocky Balboa was like 60 (he was 30 when he fought Creed the first time in 1976) when he fought Mason Dixon, and he went the distance. Sugar Ray isn't that old. Maybe something could be done?:wink:

                    Seriously, it is a time honored tradition to debate the greatness of one fighter to another across time. My granddad always claimed Ali would have been whipped by Joe Louis. Then the arguement my brother in law (the idiot) made that Tyson would have beaten Ali. There are many examples. Fun to debate.

                    Sad that modern boxing lacks the attention for too little comparisons to take place, IMO.

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                    • fistofrage
                      Hall Of Fame
                      • Aug 2002
                      • 13682

                      #40
                      Re: Floyd Dissing Sugar Ray..

                      Originally posted by Hammerhunker
                      Rocky Balboa was like 60 (he was 30 when he fought Creed the first time in 1976) when he fought Mason Dixon, and he went the distance. Sugar Ray isn't that old. Maybe something could be done?:wink:

                      Seriously, it is a time honored tradition to debate the greatness of one fighter to another across time. My granddad always claimed Ali would have been whipped by Joe Louis. Then the arguement my brother in law (the idiot) made that Tyson would have beaten Ali. There are many examples. Fun to debate.

                      Sad that modern boxing lacks the attention for too little comparisons to take place, IMO.
                      I think when you are debating great fighters over periods, you can never be proven wrong, or right. Thats the problem. I do not like Floyd's boxing style, but he's the best at what he does. He always comes in with a plan, sticks to it, and wins rather easily. He's just too quick to get roughed up. And he rolls his shoulders better than anyone I've seen when he does get caught. He's at his weight max right now, but after watching Taylor again over the weekend, Floyd would beat him too. Floyd would easily pull off what Spinks was trying to do, Bing Bing, gone.

                      Floyd and Sugar Ray would be another fight I would pay to see. Because Floyd doesn't put multiple punches together, I would take Sugar Ray. But Sugar Ray wouldn't beat Floyd 10 out of 10 times. If Floyd lost, I'd take Floyd in the rematch because he knows how to aggrevate the other boxers and break them down.

                      As far as Tyson vs. Ali. The real question is could a primeTyson beat a prime Frazier? I say he could, and by that logic I would give Tyson a punchers chance against Ali. Ali would win a majority, but not 10 out of 10.
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                      • Complex
                        MVP
                        • Oct 2005
                        • 2494

                        #41
                        Re: Floyd Dissing Sugar Ray..

                        Originally posted by thelwig14
                        The huge difference is Hearns has a monster reach and has enough speed to be able to continue to connect on PBF. PBF would get owned in the era of the 80's. There is just no other nicer way of saying it.
                        the problem is that aggressive fighters could get inside Hearns reach with ease (ie Barkley). Floyd has shown he can throw combos and get aggressive, but most times Floyd just does what he has to win.

                        But I like the above poster's talk about multiple fights. Out of 10 times I see Floyd winning most of them.
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                        • grunt
                          Banned
                          • Jul 2002
                          • 9527

                          #42
                          Re: Floyd Dissing Sugar Ray..

                          Originally posted by Complex
                          the problem is that aggressive fighters could get inside Hearns reach with ease (ie Barkley). Floyd has shown he can throw combos and get aggressive, but most times Floyd just does what he has to win.

                          But I like the above poster's talk about multiple fights. Out of 10 times I see Floyd winning most of them.
                          I have to disagree with the ease of getting inside Hearns reach. Iran Barkley was a big fighter for his class and had power. Sugar Ray and Hagler got in but both paid a terrible price. He destroyed the great Duran at 154 and gave hagler and leonard their toughest fights in their careers and both didn't want a rematch with Hearns.

                          Hearns was a freakish fighter. One of the best right hands ever but with the ability to box.

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                          • Hammerhunker
                            MVP
                            • Mar 2003
                            • 3007

                            #43
                            Re: Floyd Dissing Sugar Ray..

                            Originally posted by fistofrage
                            I think when you are debating great fighters over periods, you can never be proven wrong, or right. Thats the problem. I do not like Floyd's boxing style, but he's the best at what he does. He always comes in with a plan, sticks to it, and wins rather easily. He's just too quick to get roughed up. And he rolls his shoulders better than anyone I've seen when he does get caught. He's at his weight max right now, but after watching Taylor again over the weekend, Floyd would beat him too. Floyd would easily pull off what Spinks was trying to do, Bing Bing, gone.

                            Floyd and Sugar Ray would be another fight I would pay to see. Because Floyd doesn't put multiple punches together, I would take Sugar Ray. But Sugar Ray wouldn't beat Floyd 10 out of 10 times. If Floyd lost, I'd take Floyd in the rematch because he knows how to aggrevate the other boxers and break them down.

                            As far as Tyson vs. Ali. The real question is could a primeTyson beat a prime Frazier? I say he could, and by that logic I would give Tyson a punchers chance against Ali. Ali would win a majority, but not 10 out of 10.
                            I still believe that Tyson, even in his devastating prime, would not have been in the top 5 during the 70's. His mental fraility would have never allowed him to endure a 15 round war. There were some very good heavyweights during that time that would rule today, that were also rans then: Ernie Shavers, Ron Lyle, ect.

                            Oh what a great matchup it would have been between him and Frazier. Ali would have probably knocked him out. What about Foreman? Foreman would have shreaded him.

                            Now, I apologize for sounding like my grandpa or uncles. But back in the day, fighters fought more (because they had to) and fights were longer. Today, fighters only have to have one big fight and they are set for life. So they pick and choose there opportunities to ensure their healthy future, which is good, no modern fighter will have to end up like a Jerry Quarry.

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                            • Complex
                              MVP
                              • Oct 2005
                              • 2494

                              #44
                              Re: Floyd Dissing Sugar Ray..

                              Originally posted by Hammerhunker
                              I still believe that Tyson, even in his devastating prime, would not have been in the top 5 during the 70's. His mental fraility would have never allowed him to endure a 15 round war. There were some very good heavyweights during that time that would rule today, that were also rans then: Ernie Shavers, Ron Lyle, ect.

                              Oh what a great matchup it would have been between him and Frazier. Ali would have probably knocked him out. What about Foreman? Foreman would have shreaded him.

                              Now, I apologize for sounding like my grandpa or uncles. But back in the day, fighters fought more (because they had to) and fights were longer. Today, fighters only have to have one big fight and they are set for life. So they pick and choose there opportunities to ensure their healthy future, which is good, no modern fighter will have to end up like a Jerry Quarry.
                              I am not vouching for Tyson or against him. But keep in mind you have to wonder what fights of Tyson's would have gone 15 rounds. Someone use that argument earlier in this thread for Leonard, but he only had about 2-4 fights that went the entire 15 rounds. Tyson had one of the best chins in the history of Boxing, but I wonder what fighters of the golden era could withstand a blow from Tyson.
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                              • sense
                                Pro
                                • Dec 2002
                                • 591

                                #45
                                Re: Floyd Dissing Sugar Ray..

                                Originally posted by Complex
                                I am not vouching for Tyson or against him. But keep in mind you have to wonder what fights of Tyson's would have gone 15 rounds. Someone use that argument earlier in this thread for Leonard, but he only had about 2-4 fights that went the entire 15 rounds. Tyson had one of the best chins in the history of boxing, but I wonder what fighters of the golden era could withstand a blow from Tyson.
                                Not to get off subject, but did Tyson really have one of the best chins, IN THE HISTORY OF BOXING?????? REALLY???
                                Last edited by sense; 05-28-2007, 10:30 PM.
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