Jab Judah vs Joshua Clottey and Dimitri Kirilov vs Vic Darchinyian!

[Complex]

Re: Jab Judah vs Joshua Clottey and Dimitri Kirilov vs Vic Darchinyian!

I respect your boys' opinion, but I just disagree. Judah reminds me of Tyson in many ways, but I don't think that is the reason. I think it is just a convenient excuse. There is no sport like boxing. When you get embarrassed, especially as bad as Judah did, it takes an unbelievable amount of mental toughness to come back and get right. And Judah simply just doesn't have the mental game. For every one of Ali and Lennox and Evander and whoever...there are 300 guys to each that had a ton of talent and when they got beat or something bad happened, they just couldn't get right.

It is really easy to dominate and look great against inferior opponents. But fighting fighters that are not quite as good, equal, or a little bit better, it takes a different mindset. Judah doesn't have it. He never adjusted and/or never recovered.

I agree but I think all those things you, me, and bigeast said play a part. According to the guys that own our gym, Judah is a big time party-er. He stays in clubs, even up to fight days. Says he lacks discipline something awful. Approaching a fight, most guys shut camp down to the press and go hard for the last few days. This guy, you can find out in the streets kicking it.

His talents got him so far that he never developed much else. A lot of Judah's issues would go away if he could focus and he kep this hands up. The first round was a clear example of who was the better fighter from a talent perspective. But like we all have said, he just can't cut it.

Juahd's career isnt over, but he is no longer among the top names at 147. He is a just a guy that you have to fight to get to the top.

[thelwig14]

Re: Jab Judah vs Joshua Clottey and Dimitri Kirilov vs Vic Darchinyian!

I agree but I think all those things you, me, and bigeast said play a part. According to the guys that own our gym, Judah is a big time party-er. He stays in clubs, even up to fight days. Says he lacks discipline something awful. Approaching a fight, most guys shut camp down to the press and go hard for the last few days. This guy, you can find out in the streets kicking it.

His talents got him so far that he never developed much else. A lot of Judah's issues would go away if he could focus and he kep this hands up. The first round was a clear example of who was the better fighter from a talent perspective. But like we all have said, he just can't cut it.

Juahd's career isnt over, but he is no longer among the top names at 147. He is a just a guy that you have to fight to get to the top.

You are right....if his ego will allow him...he is now the definition of a gatekeeper.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2o7A3rMN6Co

[KG]

Re: Jab Judah vs Joshua Clottey and Dimitri Kirilov vs Vic Darchinyian!

Juday is the Lamar Odom of boxing....He has all the physical tools but his mind isn't there. His hands are lightning but he just doesn't seem to "want it".

Despites saying that, this was the best fight he's fought in a while. His corner is horrible, needs a complete overhaul.

Clottey is a tough kid though, strong and patient as hell.

[MikeRo72]

Re: Jab Judah vs Joshua Clottey and Dimitri Kirilov vs Vic Darchinyian!

Juday is the Lamar Odom of boxing....He has all the physical tools but his mind isn't there. His hands are lightning but he just doesn't seem to "want it".

Despites saying that, this was the best fight he's fought in a while. His corner is horrible, needs a complete overhaul.

Clottey is a tough kid though, strong and patient as hell.

I think Zab Judah is more Stephon Marbury than Lamar Ododm. at least Lamar is normal. I was born and bred in the Apple and for the life of me I dont understand what happened with my Generation X NYC athletes. Mike Tyson, Zab Judah, Stephon Marbury, Ron Artest, Manny Ramirez...all these guys are from the 5 Boros and are incredible athletes in their own right, but seriously messed up in the head...or emotionaly screwed. man I dont understand.

As for Judah I love the kid for his natural gifts but he is done. He looked like a shell of himself vs Clottey. i think the Cotto beat down was it for him. He will never again sniff the elite, no way no how. He still has the speed but he cant keep up with his own pace for more than 5 rounds. His punches have nothing in the second half of fights anymore. I see him beating Mayorga but that's it...Mayorga is overreated anyway but other than him he is getting killed by the rest of the division. Even Cintron and Collazo will hand Judah his lunch where as before it might be a pick'em fight. Sad to see at what a career it could have had.

[bigeastbumrush]

Re: Jab Judah vs Joshua Clottey and Dimitri Kirilov vs Vic Darchinyian!

I think Zab Judah is more Stephon Marbury than Lamar Ododm. at least Lamar is normal. I was born and bred in the Apple and for the life of me I dont understand what happened with my Generation X NYC athletes. Mike Tyson, Zab Judah, Stephon Marbury, Ron Artest, Manny Ramirez...all these guys are from the 5 Boros and are incredible athletes in their own right, but seriously messed up in the head...or emotionaly screwed. man I dont understand.

When you're a talented athelete in NYC, you get surrounded by a bunch of "yes men".

"Oh you're the best there is. There's no one better than you. You're the truth." They hear it their whole life because others want to eat off them.

Mike Tyson was fine when he was upstate.

[thelwig14]

Re: Jab Judah vs Joshua Clottey and Dimitri Kirilov vs Vic Darchinyian!

I think Zab Judah is more Stephon Marbury than Lamar Ododm. at least Lamar is normal. I was born and bred in the Apple and for the life of me I dont understand what happened with my Generation X NYC athletes. Mike Tyson, Zab Judah, Stephon Marbury, Ron Artest, Manny Ramirez...all these guys are from the 5 Boros and are incredible athletes in their own right, but seriously messed up in the head...or emotionaly screwed. man I dont understand.

As for Judah I love the kid for his natural gifts but he is done. He looked like a shell of himself vs Clottey. i think the Cotto beat down was it for him. He will never again sniff the elite, no way no how. He still has the speed but he cant keep up with his own pace for more than 5 rounds. His punches have nothing in the second half of fights anymore. I see him beating Mayorga but that's it...Mayorga is overreated anyway but other than him he is getting killed by the rest of the division. Even Cintron and Collazo will hand Judah his lunch where as before it might be a pick'em fight. Sad to see at what a career it could have had.

The difference is the "shell of himself" got exposed when he took the elite step. He looked great against inferior fighters, but fighters as good as he was or slightly better, Judah was in trouble. The bottom line...Judah just isn't and wasn't an elite fighter. He is at best a very good fighter. Nothing more, nothing less.

[Pappy Knuckles]

Re: Jab Judah vs Joshua Clottey and Dimitri Kirilov vs Vic Darchinyian!

I'm always gonna be a Judah fan, but damn he's frustrating to watch sometimes.

[Complex]

Re: Jab Judah vs Joshua Clottey and Dimitri Kirilov vs Vic Darchinyian!

The difference is the "shell of himself" got exposed when he took the elite step. He looked great against inferior fighters, but fighters as good as he was or slightly better, Judah was in trouble. The bottom line...Judah just isn't and wasn't an elite fighter. He is at best a very good fighter. Nothing more, nothing less.

Very HARSH but EXTREMELY accurate synopsis.

[pk500]

Re: Jab Judah vs Joshua Clottey and Dimitri Kirilov vs Vic Darchinyian!

Does anyone else see a bit of Judah in Yuriorkis Gamboa? The arrogance, the incredible talent, the poor defense, the over-reliance on speed and natural gifts?

I know it's way too early to make that judgment on Gamboa, but there are some resemblances, especially the way Gamboa holds his hands so low and seems so nonchalant about defense.

We'll see, once Gamboa steps up to top opposition.

Another similarity between Gamboa and Zab is that they're both fun as hell to watch when at the peak of their powers, especially against inferior opposition. They make (Gamboa)/made (Judah) the sweet science look easy.

Take care,
PK

[thelwig14]

Re: Jab Judah vs Joshua Clottey and Dimitri Kirilov vs Vic Darchinyian!

Does anyone else see a bit of Judah in Yuriorkis Gamboa? The arrogance, the incredible talent, the poor defense, the over-reliance on speed and natural gifts?

I know it's way too early to make that judgment on Gamboa, but there are some resemblances, especially the way Gamboa holds his hands so low and seems so nonchalant about defense.

We'll see, once Gamboa steps up to top opposition.

Another similarity between Gamboa and Zab is that they're both fun as hell to watch when at the peak of their powers, especially against inferior opposition. They make (Gamboa)/made (Judah) the sweet science look easy.

Take care,
PK

No, I don't. Now it is impossible to gauge how a fighter reacts to their first loss, but Gamboa is a HIGHLY decorated amateur and has a much better pedigree than Judah does.

[Complex]

Re: Jab Judah vs Joshua Clottey and Dimitri Kirilov vs Vic Darchinyian!

No, I don't. Now it is impossible to gauge how a fighter reacts to their first loss, but Gamboa is a HIGHLY decorated amateur and has a much better pedigree than Judah does.

Just to play devils advocate, Gamboa does have Judah-ish defense. At this stage of his career he gets caught waaaay too much. He has blazing speed that makes up for it but still keeps his hands waaay too low for my taste.

[thelwig14]

Re: Jab Judah vs Joshua Clottey and Dimitri Kirilov vs Vic Darchinyian!

Just to play devils advocate, Gamboa does have Judah-ish defense. At this stage of his career he gets caught waaaay too much. He has blazing speed that makes up for it but still keeps his hands waaay too low for my taste.

There is no question he leaves his hands low.

But, and what I always do, I play the odds. When a fighter of that amateur pedigree starts making waves in the pros, they have a tendency to leave themselves grossly open against inferior opponents because they know they are going to take them out. Evander-Cooper, Lennox-Mason, etc...

There are a ton of examples.

The question will be whether he respects the first opponent that can crack him. But Gamboa is no Judah.

[pk500]

Re: Jab Judah vs Joshua Clottey and Dimitri Kirilov vs Vic Darchinyian!

Just to play devils advocate, Gamboa does have Judah-ish defense. At this stage of his career he gets caught waaaay too much. He has blazing speed that makes up for it but still keeps his hands waaay too low for my taste.

And that's exactly the parallel I see between Judah and Gamboa. He only has 11 fights but has been on the canvas twice.

Plus everything seems to have come so easily for Gamboa, mainly due to his unreal talent. But he was tested more than he should have been by Darling Jimenez, who capitalized on Gamboa's lazy defense.

And what startled me a bit was that Gamboa still left his hands pretty low in his next fight, when he crushed Al Seeger. It was almost like he learned few lessons against Jimenez.

We'll see what happens to Gamboa once he's forced to go to those "dark places" to win a fight, as Teddy Atlas says. The kid is exciting as hell to watch and should be a champion, though. Dude even looks a bit like a "mini Tyson" in the face, too!

I enjoy talking boxing with you cats. It's nice to know that there's young dudes out there -- I'm 43; I'm assuming you're younger than me! -- who appreciate the sweet science and aren't slobbering over that MMA crap.

Take care,
PK

[Complex]

Re: Jab Judah vs Joshua Clottey and Dimitri Kirilov vs Vic Darchinyian!

I think if you search on you tube, you can see Floyd's first pro fight. Or try Hopkins too, I saw his 4th pro fight on there that he took on very short notice. In both you see very polished fighters, strong jab, hands high, good defense, good footwork etc. I do not see that in Gamboa yet. Now he can improve on it, but to be honest its unlikely he will. I hope I am wrong.