EA Community Manager's response to the exclusion of button punching...

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  • Bronk_Bonin
    Rookie
    • Feb 2003
    • 475

    #1

    EA Community Manager's response to the exclusion of button punching...

    Hopefully we can finally put this to rest and stop making threads about adding buttons. IT'S NOT HAPPENING!!!!!!!!!!!

    http://forum.ea.com/eaforum/posts/list/233665.page

    Posted by sk88z

    Here's my take, and by no means is this an official statement from EA or the Fight Night team.

    I played the first Fight Night with the original stick and with most games, I do my best to try to understand what the developers of a game has in mind when they put in the time to create control schemes and gameplay ideas. I was easily hooked on the new concept of using the right stick to punch because it mimics the punches and feels like I'm throwing a punch rather than just pushing a button. There was pleasure in pulling back for a punch and then following through and it felt pretty good.

    Total Punch Control adapted and changed and while some who mastered the original controls were irked about the change, they adapted to the controls and, like myself, understood the reasoning behind the changes such as it was the extra wind up and follow through for haymakers. Some liked it, some didn't. I didn't mind it, as again, I do my best to appreciate what the devs had in mind. What I didn't like was how long it took to pull off combos having to crank back each punch. It could be done, but maybe there was a better way.

    All the while, there was the option of using buttons to punch. Unfortunately, no matter how good people got on the sticks to punch, the buttons were just a tad faster it seemed and at the end of the day for gamers who will push the limits to win (no pun intended), buttons were by far the easier way to win in the game. I went back to play with the buttons just so I could get some online wins though I it did kind of drive me nuts that there seemed to be an unbalance in the game.

    And then comes Round 4. It was talked about early that there would be no buttons. Uproar ensued and was expected. Change is tough. And then people found out that TPC was changed as well. More questions and wonder from the even the TPC community. Now the demo has dropped and with the jury still out, the feedback of quick responses have been what has been expected.

    Again, my take, the new TPC is the culmination of controls to satisfy both the button user and previous TPC users. You will need to practice, but once you do and find the sweet spots on the stick to throw punches, you will begin to understand what the devs had in mind. The ability to quickly throw 1-2 punches tapping the stick in the proper direction (don't be lazy and viciously tap, time it like a punch), and then finishing it with a strong hook or uppercut to the head that still feels just right when you connect. No more having to crank back every punch yet the speed of throwing punches can be just as quick as the old button controls. The key here is to take the time master the controls and not to be lazy finding the sweet spots.

    I know there will be people that will continue to dig their feet in and fight for buttons. What can I tell ya? For 3 iterations you've had chances to try something new, yet for one reason or another, probably because it was slightly quicker to use 'em to win, buttons were the way to go. For the rest of us that have stepped out of the button-comfort-zone, I'm pretty satisfied with the new controls and look forward to some great fights. I've already seen a lot of people that have adapted from buttons to the new TPC and have been very surprised that it's as quick and responsive as it is after grasping the controls. I am hopeful more people will have the same experiences.

    Start working out that thumb folks if you want to go FTW.

    --------------------------------

    Call it whatever you want. The decision was made to evolve the series and go with a new TPC. Calling the old TPC unresponsive and fickle compared to the buttons is unfair. The time it takes to throw a punch in real life is somewhat mimicked with the movement of the stick whether to one point or to one point and through another. To say that a punch is like pushing a button just doesn't seem right.

    As the game evolves maybe one day we'll be wearing gloves and the game will mimick our actions and if another player is still using buttons, guess what, the buttons will still be faster. That's an unfair advantage. Small difference between that scenario and our current one, though a comparison I'm drawing when looking at this debate. By no means, however, would I say that TPC is unresponsive, in fact, the new TPC once mastered can be quite accurate to those that take the time to use all the controls especially the bobbing and weaving and 2-3 punch combos.

    ------------------------------------------------

    Give it some practice, that's all it takes...don't give up. I know you can do it! Take a break from flaming the forums with your hatred for button mashing and get some practice in with the demo, if in fact you are playing the demo and not just jumping on the button-bandwagon.

    I beg to differ that buttons are more realistic. If you take the time, not a lot if you're a good gamer, you will find the new TPC to be quite responsive once you get it down. Don't worry, the training games in the full version will help you get up to speed...that is if you're willing to give it a chance.

    The only constant in life is change. My 35-year-old new-age-hippie-wisdom for today. <!-- Attachments --><!-- Attachments --><!-- Attachments -->
    Last edited by Bronk_Bonin; 05-16-2009, 08:35 PM.
    PSN: bronk14
  • M.I.M.L.
    Banned
    • May 2006
    • 330

    #2
    Re: EA Community Manager's response to the exclusion of button punching...

    hmmmmmmmm

    Go for change or make alot of customers mad to the point where they purchase ufc instead..........................

    If ea is smart there will be buttons at some point in this game


    If sales are too unbalanced there will be buttons

    If a petition is brought up there will be buttons

    U cannot take a feature out of a game and expect no uproar




    *patiently waits for a couple of bad reviews to change the minds over at ea corporate*

    Comment

    • cepwin
      Rookie
      • Sep 2008
      • 104

      #3
      Re: EA Community Manager's response to the exclusion of button punching...

      Having played the demo several times I have to agree with the EA Community Manager on this one. Now, I'm in a little bit different situation than a lot of the folks on this site as this is the first FN I've played so I'm not used to the buttons to begin with. It's perfectly natural that people used to playing with buttons might not like the TPC at first since there is a learning curve. If the game can not be balanced between between buttons and TPC then I'd think adding back buttons would hurt the on-line experience. This is an issue with games such as FIFA where you have some players playing fully assisted and others playing fully manual. Perhaps a compromise would be put buttons back but have a filter for on-line play so people can only play with people using the same control scheme as they do? (Hummm...time for a note to EA.)

      Comment

      • shigogouhou
        Banned
        • Dec 2008
        • 293

        #4
        Re: EA Community Manager's response to the exclusion of button punching...

        When will EA learn that "Do it this way because we say you should" is a horrible business strategy?

        I haven't played the demo so I can't vouch one way or the other on "new" TPC, and I hardly ever used it on previous versions (beyond having to for the super-power punches in FNR3, and a couple online matches before I learned you could change it to buttons), but it seems to me a more logical approach would be to determine why button punching was faster than stick-flick punching, and then make the necessary modifications to even the two up.

        In brief: I want to play games, not learn them. If you're going to make me play a certain way, I better be able to pick up on it right quick, or the only thing getting "put down" will be the game when I'm fed up of losing because I can't get the controls to work.

        Comment

        • Bifflog
          Rookie
          • Oct 2006
          • 19

          #5
          Re: EA Community Manager's response to the exclusion of button punching...

          Anyone thinking that the lack of buttons is going to make a noticeable dent in EA's sales is seriously overestimating their own personal thoughts mirroring those of the general public. Most gamers don't post on OS, and most don't even open the options menu in the games they buy. And this is coming from someone who is sympathetic to their cause...

          EDIT: Also just wanna say I wouldn't be surprised to all to see button controls end up in the final build in some capacity, or as an update at some point. Just don't think it would be the result of fear of lost sales.
          Last edited by Bifflog; 05-16-2009, 09:33 PM.

          Comment

          • Darxide
            Rookie
            • Mar 2006
            • 222

            #6
            Re: EA Community Manager's response to the exclusion of button punching...

            Control schemes for ANY game just needs to be two things: Simple and intuitive. TPC is neither. The fact that you have to learn a "sweet spot" for something as simple as throwing a hook without fail is proof that it isn't.

            Secondly, TPC offers no advantages over the buttons. Why would anyone want to use an inferior control scheme? TPC isn't simulative of throw a real punch, that's ridiculous. TPC is a left from EA's right analog control craze from years ago. It's the Fight Night equivalent of Madden's vision cone. It was a gimmick that only gave gamers one more thing to think about in an already complex and fast game. Same with TPC. It's not like when Tiger Woods went to the analog scheme- that actually had an advantage over the 3 button presses. And you know what? They still gave gamers to option to use the buttons.

            TPC would be great if it was exactly that- if the punch motion began when you pressed the stick to begin the input motion, it would be better and more accurate.

            I've already gotten used to TPC, and it's better in Round 4 than in previous games, but I'll never be a fan of it until it becomes better than the buttons outright, from an input accuracy standpoint.

            Comment

            • phillyfan23
              MVP
              • Feb 2005
              • 2319

              #7
              Re: EA Community Manager's response to the exclusion of button punching...

              Originally posted by Darxide
              Control schemes for ANY game just needs to be two things: Simple and intuitive. TPC is neither. The fact that you have to learn a "sweet spot" for something as simple as throwing a hook without fail is proof that it isn't.

              Secondly, TPC offers no advantages over the buttons. Why would anyone want to use an inferior control scheme? TPC isn't simulative of throw a real punch, that's ridiculous. TPC is a left from EA's right analog control craze from years ago. It's the Fight Night equivalent of Madden's vision cone. It was a gimmick that only gave gamers one more thing to think about in an already complex and fast game. Same with TPC. It's not like when Tiger Woods went to the analog scheme- that actually had an advantage over the 3 button presses. And you know what? They still gave gamers to option to use the buttons.

              TPC would be great if it was exactly that- if the punch motion began when you pressed the stick to begin the input motion, it would be better and more accurate.

              I've already gotten used to TPC, and it's better in Round 4 than in previous games, but I'll never be a fan of it until it becomes better than the buttons outright, from an input accuracy standpoint.
              100 percent on the money.....

              and people say well TPC mimics punch movement!.....yea i'm sure in real life we pull back our arms for a jab.

              just arrogance by the devs and EA here.

              the TPC is better than i thought but it will never be as efficient as the buttons, and you can also TPC mash. buttons will be more precise and with the inclusion of a stamina slider, you really can't button mash anyways.

              i hope the sales are so bad or the complaints very loud that EA will be forced to give the button options again.

              Comment

              • Seymour Scagnetti
                Banned
                • Oct 2006
                • 2489

                #8
                Re: EA Community Manager's response to the exclusion of button punching...

                Originally posted by phillyfan23
                100 percent on the money.....

                and people say well TPC mimics punch movement!.....yea i'm sure in real life we pull back our arms for a jab.

                just arrogance by the devs and EA here.

                the TPC is better than i thought but it will never be as efficient as the buttons, and you can also TPC mash. buttons will be more precise and with the inclusion of a stamina slider, you really can't button mash anyways.

                i hope the sales are so bad or the complaints very loud that EA will be forced to give the button options again.
                Well if sales are that bad they may not bother with FN5 so be careful with what you wish for.

                With TPC everyone is in the same boat and if 5 punches out of 1000 you throw in a fight come out wrong and that is the worst case scenario with this game then I'll take that anytime considering all the other crappy sports games that are released year after year.

                It's now official that there are no buttons so just enjoy the game, You know you're gonna buy it and you're gonna play it alot and you're gonna enjoy it. What's the point of continuing to condemn the lack of buttons. It's not getting you anywhere. Arguing is pointless. Gaming is supposed to be fun.

                Comment

                • SteelerSpartan
                  MVP
                  • Apr 2007
                  • 2884

                  #9
                  Re: EA Community Manager's response to the exclusion of button punching...

                  No its all about giving choices to the user and to remove it from offline play too is just absurd.....

                  what harm would it have done to have it there for offline play???

                  I don't want to hear all this you "button masher noob" crap until you answer that question


                  People love to use NHL 09 as an example(Love the skill stick)...but Hockey is a far less of a precision sport then Boxing. And the goal with the Skill Stick was to give you more control, not take it away which IMO TPC does, correct??...and you know what... the old controls are still there for those die hards in NHL 09.


                  The game can still be very much sim with buttons provided they put in the work to make sure appropriate stats/animations reflecting fatigue are there.

                  IMO the precision that Buttons allow make it even more realistic to me because I know if I leave any sort of opening Im going to be eating leather..

                  The problem has never been being able to throw too easily...its been about not punishing people who throw too much or who are out of position with realistic animations and stamina loss....Instead of going the extra mile to do that they dumbed down peoples reactions with TPC to compensate for their lack of tuning


                  With that said Im enduring the controls because I really like the sport.....I don't know if others will though
                  Last edited by SteelerSpartan; 05-17-2009, 01:00 AM.
                  Here We Go Steelers!!! Here We Go!!!

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                  Comment

                  • shigogouhou
                    Banned
                    • Dec 2008
                    • 293

                    #10
                    Re: EA Community Manager's response to the exclusion of button punching...

                    Originally posted by Seymour Scagnetti
                    It's now official that there are no buttons so just enjoy the game, You know you're gonna buy it and you're gonna play it alot and you're gonna enjoy it.
                    Um, no I'm not, I'm going to download the demo and if I don't like the control scheme I'm going to spend my $60 on UFC and play FNR3 if I get desperate for boxing-only fighting. I'm probably not alone in this regard.

                    Comment

                    • cepwin
                      Rookie
                      • Sep 2008
                      • 104

                      #11
                      Re: EA Community Manager's response to the exclusion of button punching...

                      While I personally liked the TPC controls, you made some excellent points here. I honestly hope someone from EA Vancouver is following these boards.

                      Originally posted by SteelerSpartan
                      No its all about giving choices to the user and to remove it from offline play too is just absurd.....

                      what harm would it have done to have it there for offline play???


                      IMO the precision that Buttons allow make it even more realistic to me because I know if I leave any sort of opening Im going to be eating leather..

                      The problem has never been being able to throw too easily...its been about not punishing people who throw too much or who are out of position with realistic animations and stamina loss....Instead of going the extra mile to do that they dumbed down peoples reactions with TPC to compensate for their lack of tuning


                      With that said Im enduring the controls because I really like the sport.....I don't know if others will though

                      Comment

                      • DaveDQ
                        13
                        • Sep 2003
                        • 7664

                        #12
                        Re: EA Community Manager's response to the exclusion of button punching...

                        Originally posted by phillyfan23
                        100 percent on the money.....

                        and people say well TPC mimics punch movement!.....yea i'm sure in real life we pull back our arms for a jab.

                        just arrogance by the devs and EA here.

                        the TPC is better than i thought but it will never be as efficient as the buttons, and you can also TPC mash. buttons will be more precise and with the inclusion of a stamina slider, you really can't button mash anyways.

                        i hope the sales are so bad or the complaints very loud that EA will be forced to give the button options again.
                        Have you played the demo? The jab and cross are not a pull back movement.
                        Being kind, one to another, never disappoints.

                        Comment

                        • phillyfan23
                          MVP
                          • Feb 2005
                          • 2319

                          #13
                          Re: EA Community Manager's response to the exclusion of button punching...

                          Originally posted by DaveDQ
                          Have you played the demo? The jab and cross are not a pull back movement.
                          uhh ya I have.....

                          and the jab IS a pull back movement . when you're facing one direction, to do a jab you pull the TPC the opposite way. the cross feels just like pressing a button as well.

                          so please, don't assume i'm misinformed because i don't share your viewpoints

                          Comment

                          • phillyfan23
                            MVP
                            • Feb 2005
                            • 2319

                            #14
                            Re: EA Community Manager's response to the exclusion of button punching...

                            Originally posted by Seymour Scagnetti
                            Well if sales are that bad they may not bother with FN5 so be careful with what you wish for.

                            With TPC everyone is in the same boat and if 5 punches out of 1000 you throw in a fight come out wrong and that is the worst case scenario with this game then I'll take that anytime considering all the other crappy sports games that are released year after year.

                            It's now official that there are no buttons so just enjoy the game, You know you're gonna buy it and you're gonna play it alot and you're gonna enjoy it. What's the point of continuing to condemn the lack of buttons. It's not getting you anywhere. Arguing is pointless. Gaming is supposed to be fun.
                            ya but there might be a chance they will add it for the next iteration or by a miracle patch it.

                            and the accuracy of the TPC is not 99.5 percent like u say.....95 percent more likely. like i said, it's better than I thought, but still not good enough. it should be 100 percent, and the buttons provide that.

                            I'm also not sold in the game at all, my biggest beef is the haymaker imbalance. EVERY single fighter will have their strongest punch being the uppercuts/hooks. That's a possible game killer if we can't adjust it via sliders.

                            Imagine being Lennox Lewis. I know some people say his cross is more powerful than the other guys, but in the game his strongest punch STILL isn't the cross like in real life. It's the hooks/Uppercuts because there is no haymaker for the cross.

                            That's THE biggest flaw in the demo. Pacman's strongest punch are the hooks/UCs....not his famous left cross. just wrong, no matter how you slice it.

                            whatcha think about that Seymour? something ffundamentally wrong right?

                            Comment

                            • Pappy Knuckles
                              LORDTHUNDERBIRD
                              • Sep 2004
                              • 15966

                              #15
                              Re: EA Community Manager's response to the exclusion of button punching...

                              Originally posted by phillyfan23
                              uhh ya I have.....

                              and the jab IS a pull back movement . when you're facing one direction, to do a jab you pull the TPC the opposite way. the cross feels just like pressing a button as well.

                              so please, don't assume i'm misinformed because i don't share your viewpoints
                              I'm not sure I know what you're talking about. All you do is push the stick up in a left diagonal motion for a jab and a right diagonal motion for a cross. There's no pulling of the stick involved.

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