How often do you throw a haymaker?

[Phobia]

Re: How often do you throw a haymaker?

Not true.. when your opponent throws 150 haymakers in a fight.. my opponent might land 25 of those what penalty did he pay for missing 125..none.. depsite nullifying the haymaker to my best abilities there no way you can stop all 150 haymakers.. thast all im saying

No no, you are not correct. Go into a match. Throw a haymaker that misses. You will have a large chunk of temp stamina removed and a sliver of perm stamina removed. Do that 150 times and compare that to controller 2 just sitting there. I can promiss you, you will see a much different out come than what you are describing.

But with all that said. I will continue to use it the way it is intended. Not spamming or over used. But a KO punch when a guy is hurt, backpedaling, or walking in hands down.

I will gladly box you so I can show you. Then on top of that I will LET you throw 150+ haymakers and I can promise you. I will show you how there is a negative to doing that and how it can be prevented.

[HotSauce2k3]

Re: How often do you throw a haymaker?

The haymaker uppercut to the body is an excellent counter to the bob and weave cheesers.

[acts238shaun]

Re: How often do you throw a haymaker?

The haymaker uppercut to the body is an excellent counter to the bob and weave cheesers.

QFT!!!

[parker002]

Re: How often do you throw a haymaker?

See I don't see the reason for the head shake on this matter. If you are working the jab, haymakers are stopped. The animation is halted if u connect with a shot as they start the haymaker. Where regular shots don't get halted. So the only way haymakers are going to land is if you are 1) walking into them with you hands down 2) standing flat footed 3) Not working the jab

Now with that said. Like I have stated in my post. The amount I throw depends on who I am fighting with.

Tyson - 3 to 4 a round so a 10 round fight u are looking around 30 to 40 a fight

Jones Jr. - 1 to 2 depending on how often they get stunned so around 10 to 20 a 10 round fight.

See like I said. I fight realistic. But the reason I am lost as far as the hate for them being used is. If I fight a haymaker spammer. It is pretty easy to stop them. They are going to tired themselves out pretty quick. But if you go to a jab base offense you pretty much nullify all haymakers.

I don't know I just don't understand the dislike

They're just not realistic. Outside of the showboating, ala Ali and SRL, real boxers don't wind up in slow motion to throw heavy punches. Plus, like was already mentioned, the animations are flat silly.

This game needs punch-specific sliders and per-punch ratings. Uppers and hooks ARE heavy punches, we don't need haymakers.

[Phobia]

Re: How often do you throw a haymaker?

They're just not realistic. Outside of the showboating, ala Ali and SRL, real boxers don't wind up in slow motion to throw heavy punches. Plus, like was already mentioned, the animations are flat silly.

This game needs punch-specific sliders and per-punch ratings. Uppers and hooks ARE heavy punches, we don't need haymakers.

You are talking about a entire different topic as far as I am concerned. Yes I AGREE with you. But it is not in this game. The bottom line is that EA did not create this game in that manner. So instead of having a realistic creation of power punches and counters. Instead it is created as a GAME not a SIMULATION. So while you can say all day long about the lack of a simulation for fight night. I will agree with you the whole time.

But with all that said. I am going to play Fight Night Rd 4 in the manner that it was created in. Power punches by EA mean haymakers. So if you want to do away with the ability to KO someone in one punch WITHOUT a stun phase then be my guest and hamper yourself. It is not saying I am spamming or glitching or doing any kind of exploit. But I also won't remove a part of the game online. It will be done to you and you need to do it back. You can still use the function in a manner that still is realistic.

Bottom line is that fight night was created this way. So if you like it or not this is how Rd 4 is. Like I have stated twice in here. I would rather a more simulation experience. But that is not what this game is. Every game has things that are not the most realistic thing. You still use what is given to you because everyone else is using it.

[parker002]

Re: How often do you throw a haymaker?

You are talking about a entire different topic as far as I am concerned. Yes I AGREE with you. But it is not in this game. The bottom line is that EA did not create this game in that manner. So instead of having a realistic creation of power punches and counters. Instead it is created as a GAME not a SIMULATION. So while you can say all day long about the lack of a simulation for fight night. I will agree with you the whole time.

But with all that said. I am going to play Fight Night Rd 4 in the manner that it was created in. Power punches by EA mean haymakers. So if you want to do away with the ability to KO someone in one punch WITHOUT a stun phase then be my guest and hamper yourself. It is not saying I am spamming or glitching or doing any kind of exploit. But I also won't remove a part of the game online. It will be done to you and you need to do it back. You can still use the function in a manner that still is realistic.

Bottom line is that fight night was created this way. So if you like it or not this is how Rd 4 is. Like I have stated twice in here. I would rather a more simulation experience. But that is not what this game is. Every game has things that are not the most realistic thing. You still use what is given to you because everyone else is using it.

I don't play online, and I certainly don't care whether you use haymakers or not.

I don't use them, and that's all I care about.

[TheCreep]

Re: How often do you throw a haymaker?

I dont use them at all. Matter of fact, they're so off of my radar that I dont know HOW to use them lol.

I like opponents that try that telegraphed **** though, lol. Absolutely no hope for somebody trying to use haymakers, especially against tha kid, lol.

You MIGHT land a fluke here and there, but if you have any type of skill, there is NO WAY a haymaker should connect with you.

I dont see why haymakers are even in the game, all they do is get people who try to use them knocked thee **** out, swiftly.

[Phobia]

Re: How often do you throw a haymaker?

I dont use them at all. Matter of fact, they're so off of my radar that I dont know HOW to use them lol.

I like opponents that try that telegraphed **** though, lol. Absolutely no hope for somebody trying to use haymakers, especially against tha kid, lol.

You MIGHT land a fluke here and there, but if you have any type of skill, there is NO WAY a haymaker should connect with you.

I dont see why haymakers are even in the game, all they do is get people who try to use them knocked thee **** out, swiftly.

Would you mind if we test your theory? I agree with you that hays should land seldom if you are working your punches correctly. But I still wanna see how someone with zero hays fairs against someone like myself that uses them in a realistic manner.

If I stun or hurt you. You better believe you better get your hands up

[parker002]

Re: How often do you throw a haymaker?

Would you mind if we test your theory? I agree with you that hays should land seldom if you are working your punches correctly. But I still wanna see how someone with zero hays fairs against someone like myself that uses them in a realistic manner.

If I stun or hurt you. You better believe you better get your hands up

Like I said, if you want to use them, more power to you. Like you said, they're in the game, so it's not like you're doing anything WRONG. Using haymakers doesn't make you a cheeser or a spammer, so I wouldn't take such offense if I were you. You're just playing the game the way you like.

That being said, I think it's a misnomer to suggest you use haymakers "realistically" since the haymakers in the game don't even exist in "real" boxing. I would suggest you're using them "discretely" or even "judiciously". But "realistically" and FNR4 haymakers don't belong in the same sentence.

[Phobia]

Re: How often do you throw a haymaker?

Like I said, if you want to use them, more power to you. Like you said, they're in the game, so it's not like you're doing anything WRONG. Using haymakers doesn't make you a cheeser or a spammer, so I wouldn't take such offense if I were you. You're just playing the game the way you like.

That being said, I think it's a misnomer to suggest you use haymakers "realistically" since the haymakers in the game don't even exist in "real" boxing. I would suggest you're using them "discretely" or even "judiciously". But "realistically" and FNR4 haymakers don't belong in the same sentence.

See I disagree. Realistically can mean at the rate they are being thrown, not by the look of them. You are taking a animation and tagging it to the function they designed it for.

They made the haymaker in regard to a power shot. Now in real life, you can throw quick snapping punches. That would be your normal punch. But in real life you can also put more power behind certain shots. I boxed all through high school and I know from just experience. When I rocked someone and had them rolling on their heels that I would come with little more power in the hands. Mainly cause they are not as much of a threat to land that big blow, it does happen but you are at the advantage to land a shot to end it.

I take the haymaker in that regard. It is you loading up and looking to end the fight. But while it might not LOOK realistic. They still did a great job of limiting its effectiveness.

1) - It is extremely slow
2) - It can be stopped mid animation by a regular punch
3) - It drains big chunks of temp stamina if wiffed

[parker002]

Re: How often do you throw a haymaker?

See I disagree. Realistically can mean at the rate they are being thrown, not by the look of them. You are taking a animation and tagging it to the function they designed it for.

They made the haymaker in regard to a power shot. Now in real life, you can throw quick snapping punches. That would be your normal punch. But in real life you can also put more power behind certain shots. I boxed all through high school and I know from just experience. When I rocked someone and had them rolling on their heels that I would come with little more power in the hands. Mainly cause they are not as much of a threat to land that big blow, it does happen but you are at the advantage to land a shot to end it.

I take the haymaker in that regard. It is you loading up and looking to end the fight. But while it might not LOOK realistic. They still did a great job of limiting its effectiveness.

1) - It is extremely slow
2) - It can be stopped mid animation by a regular punch
3) - It drains big chunks of temp stamina if wiffed

Hooks and uppercuts especially are, by definition, power shots. You don't see guys in a real boxing match "wind up" to throw punches. Sure, they sometimes throw with a different velocity or "effort" but the haymaker mechanic in the game itself isn't that.

I know exactly what they designed it for - and you can't separate that function from the animation as you seem want to do.

Why?

Because they designed it to be a "kill shot". It's the FNR4 equivalent of a MK fatality. That's just EA. They have to put some arcade in there so that they can sell as many games as possible.

[Phobia]

Re: How often do you throw a haymaker?

Hooks and uppercuts especially are, by definition, power shots. You don't see guys in a real boxing match "wind up" to throw punches. Sure, they sometimes throw with a different velocity or "effort" but the haymaker mechanic in the game itself isn't that.

I know exactly what they designed it for - and you can't separate that function from the animation as you seem want to do.

Why?

Because they designed it to be a "kill shot". It's the FNR4 equivalent of a MK fatality. That's just EA. They have to put some arcade in there so that they can sell as many games as possible.

But you see you are still doing what I said earlier. You are not separating reality from the game.

1st) It is not a "MK Fatality". It is a POWER shot.
2nd) Hooks and Uppers are power shots in real life and like YOU said. In real life people can throw punches with different strengths and velocity. In the game a hook or upper is NOT a power shot. It also can't be thrown with "more effort".
3rd) So what function in the game looks like more "effort" behind it?? That is the haymaker. Same reason why the straight and jab don't have a haymaker animation. Hooks and uppers are the power shots.

See the biggest thing you can't separate is the fact the animation is 1) Slow 2) ugly 3)does not resemble real life. So in turn you say it is not realistic. Then like I have stated before. I AGREE it does not look realistic. But I do not agree with your stance that boxers don't throw shots with more power. I am sure if I hit up youtube I can bring up many videos of boxers. Swinging "HARD" when they see a opponent hurt.

So pretty much, if the animation "LOOKED" realistic you would not have a issue with it. But because it "LOOKS" unrealistic you have a issue with it as a finishing move. Which it is far from. You can land 100 haymakers and still not "finish" the opponent. If it was a finishing move. Only a couple would destroy your opponent. This is not the case with haymaker in the game.

Can it KO you with 1 punch??? YES

Does that alone simulate a realistic aspect of the sport???? YES

Is there any other punch in the game that can KO with one punch??? NO, stun phase yes. But not flash KO

So I could argue that you are making the game less real. By removing the fear that at any moment a big shot could land and end your night. That is apart of the real sport and should be apart of the game. The haymaker might not do it in a "realistic LOOK" but its idea behind it is correct.

Basically everything I am saying is this.

The game does not realistically portray the sport to a T. But the basic fundamentals is there (punch numbers way to high though). The fear of looking up at the ref can come at any moment with the haymaker. Which this is a true aspect of the sport. So while the look of it might not fit how it should look. The general idea and X's and O'x of the sport is there and does a pretty good job of it. There is quite a few things I would change if I could for online play but I can't. So this is what we are stuck with basically like it or not.

I would change

• Punches stamina alot lower
• More damage of punches landing to face. Force more blocking
• Faster footwork
• Different animation for haymaker. Something with way less delay and no where near the "wind up". Basically simulation u dropping the hands and laying it on the line. Good for when u are realing and last ditch effort OR to try and end the fight when you got a guy hurt.

I think agreeing to disagree is the only thing that we can do on this debate.

Loved the debate though Parker. Good to have a debate in a adult manner with guys on here and it not getting stupid .

Later bro

[parker002]

Re: How often do you throw a haymaker?

But you see you are still doing what I said earlier. You are not separating reality from the game.

I AM separating reality from the game. I have to.

Because there isn't a whole lot of reality IN the game.

1st) It is not a "MK Fatality". It is a POWER shot.

In real life (there I am separating the game from reality again) an uppercut IS a power shot. The haymaker, as it is in the game, is not. It's a conventional arcade attack reminiscent of 8-bit fighting games.

2nd) Hooks and Uppers are power shots in real life and like YOU said. In real life people can throw punches with different strengths and velocity. In the game a hook or upper is NOT a power shot. It also can't be thrown with "more effort".

Wouldn't the logical solution then be to make it so that a hook or uppercut in the game can be thrown with more effort or velocity without introducing a ridiculous and almost comical "haymaker"? Of course not, because that wouldn't attract the guys that EA wants to buy the game.

You know, the same people that make online play almost unbearable because they throw 200 body shots a round or win the OLC belts and then try to charge people 5000 points just for a shot at it.

3rd) So what function in the game looks like more "effort" behind it?? That is the haymaker. Same reason why the straight and jab don't have a haymaker animation. Hooks and uppers are the power shots.

Completely counterintuitive to your argument. In real life, ANY punch can be thrown with more effort or velocity, INCLUDING jabs and straights. It seems to me you are the one not separating the animation from the mechanic. If the haymaker were realistic, the modifier would exist for every punch. It has nothing to do with animation. I would argue that if you REALLY wanted to make the game realistic, you would actually have a second modifier that is the OPPOSITE of the haymaker, specifically for use with jabs and straights - you know, how guys use the jab to judge range and feel out their opponent. Something else that's not in the game, especially since using the jab in this game usually just leads to getting counter-stunned.

See the biggest thing you can't separate is the fact the animation is 1) Slow 2) ugly 3)does not resemble real life. So in turn you say it is not realistic. Then like I have stated before. I AGREE it does not look realistic. But I do not agree with your stance that boxers don't throw shots with more power. I am sure if I hit up youtube I can bring up many videos of boxers. Swinging "HARD" when they see a opponent hurt.

No, you're wrong here. I can separate the animation from the mechanic itself. I'm actually not even talking about the animation because it's SO over-the-top stupid, it's not even worth talking about. The haymaker MECHANIC is not realistic.

I absolutely agree that guys throw shots with more power. However, putting a little extra mustard into a hook IN REAL LIFE means a LITTLE extra damage. It doesn't mean draining half of your opponents stamina in the FIRST ROUND because you connected with a haymaker to his body. And in real life, you couldn't POSSIBLY throw EVERY punch with that extra effort. It would kill you. But not in the game, just throw them over and over until they connect.

Furthermore, you keep talking about real life haymakers with a caveat: Swinging "HARD" when they see a opponent hurt.

That's a great caveat. It's the most likely scenario in real life when you'll see guys wind up a punch.

Not so in the game. There's no penalty for using it ALL THE TIME as your PRIMARY punch. I applaud you that you can use the haymaker in a way that isn't cheesy. Shame on EA for allowing it to be used any other way.

So pretty much, if the animation "LOOKED" realistic you would not have a issue with it. But because it "LOOKS" unrealistic you have a issue with it as a finishing move. Which it is far from. You can land 100 haymakers and still not "finish" the opponent. If it was a finishing move. Only a couple would destroy your opponent. This is not the case with haymaker in the game.

Nope. Wrong again.

It's not just the animation. EVERYTHING about the haymaker is unrealistic - the animation, the damage, the stamina loss, the way it can be used, the way it can be abused. There's nothing about the haymaker in FNR4 that is realistic. And I'd like for you to show me a game where landing 100 haymakers doesn't finish an opponent. FIVE haymakers to the body landed in one round will completely deplete stamina even with the slider on 10 - I've tested it thoroughly in Fight Now. Landing 5 haymakers to the body means your opponent can't throw a punch. You're confusing my comment about "fatality" to mean "finishing move". I'm using that as a reference to over-the-top arcade moves that change the game all by themselves. No, haymakers don't always result in "kill shots". That doesn't make them any less contrived.

Can it KO you with 1 punch??? YES

Does that alone simulate a realistic aspect of the sport???? YES

I've KO'd plenty of opponents, with just 1 punch, without throwing a single haymaker. So I would say the game does just fine simulating that aspect without any need for a haymaker.

Is there any other punch in the game that can KO with one punch??? NO, stun phase yes. But not flash KO

This is 100% inaccurate. I've flash KO'd the CPU dozens of times without the need of ever using a haymaker.

So I could argue that you are making the game less real. By removing the fear that at any moment a big shot could land and end your night. That is apart of the real sport and should be apart of the game. The haymaker might not do it in a "realistic LOOK" but its idea behind it is correct.

That fear is already there. Counters can cause 1-punch knockouts. It seems to me that you're leaning heavily, if not totally, on the online experience of this game. There's absolutely nothing realistic about it. Try playing the game offline for a while, you might see better what I'm talking about.

The game does not realistically portray the sport to a T. But the basic fundamentals is there (punch numbers way to high though). The fear of looking up at the ref can come at any moment with the haymaker.

That fear is there without the haymaker.

There is quite a few things I would change if I could for online play but I can't. So this is what we are stuck with basically like it or not.

That's what's so infuriating about it. ALL of the issues you've mentioned so far I don't have. You know why? Because I play offline with sliders. Online uses DEFAULT sliders and you should see what the values are. It's hilarious how unrealistic they've made the online game. They obviously have no interest in making it realistic, because the mechanisms to make it so actually EXIST. They just choose not use them.

I would change

• Punches stamina alot lower
• More damage of punches landing to face. Force more blocking
• Faster footwork
• Different animation for haymaker. Something with way less delay and no where near the "wind up". Basically simulation u dropping the hands and laying it on the line. Good for when u are realing and last ditch effort OR to try and end the fight when you got a guy hurt.

Not a bad list. I agree for the most part. Although I would suggest that if you're going to speed up the animation of the haymaker (which is really the big deterrent to using it all the time) it needs to not be quite so powerful. Honestly, I'm not 100% sure the problem is the haymaker, so much as it is the way damage is calculated on body punches.

One thing I'd REALLY like to see is injuries. If a guy wants to throw 100 haymakers in the game, make him take the same risk a guy in real life does. Whether it's baseball, football, boxing, or whatever, the guy that continuously throws as hard as he possibly can risks blowing out his shoulder or elbow or whatever. Put THAT in the game - have a guy that throws continuous haymakers to the head risk a broken hand. Maybe he won't do it so much.

I think agreeing to disagree is the only thing that we can do on this debate.

Honestly, I don't think we disagree. I think we're playing TWO DIFFERENT GAMES. The online game (which you seem to be focused on) could not possibly be more different than the offline game. It's a real shame, but that's on EA, that's not on you and me.

Loved the debate though Parker. Good to have a debate in a adult manner with guys on here and it not getting stupid .

Later bro

Yeah, I started chatting on message boards when my main web browser was Lynx. I have to make a conscious effort to not be a jerk, but it's much more enjoyable when I'm not. Good discussion and well worth it. Hopefully EA is listening.

[Phobia]

Re: How often do you throw a haymaker?

Yea I think our main difference is I played 10 to 12 fights OFFLINE. WITH default sliders. Then from there on out it has been ONLY ONLINE.

See I don't play standard RANKED matches very often. I play a mix of guys in "play a friend". We all fight realistically. So I guess that is where our debate is getting twisted.

We truly are talking about two different games.

By the way, PM some sliders for the offline mode. I would like to try it and see how the sliders help.

Thanks bro

[parker002]

Re: How often do you throw a haymaker?

I highly recommend Shaun's sliders.

They're in the first post of the official slider thread.