HBO Boxing After Dar - 12-05-2009

[acts238shaun]

Re: HBO Boxing After Dar - 12-05-2009

I think the fight really could've gone either way - honestly, I think a draw was the right score (kudos to Julie Lederman for her card). I think 115-113 for either fighter would also have been justifiable. 119-110 is totally unjustifiable, as others have already pointed out. Real tough fight to call; I think Martinez landed the better shots all night, but Williams was the one coming forward and pressing the action....

I thought Williams had Martinez knocked-down in the 6th (?) after a straight left to the jaw, and Martinez kind of stumbled forward and hung on for dear life....if Williams would've just moved out of the way, he might have gotten credit for a knockdown there. Also, Martinez clearly went to his knees in the 11th, although it was in the midst of some grappling. Either way good fight.

I agree ^^^^

[Complex]

Re: HBO Boxing After Dar - 12-05-2009

I really enjoyed this fight. Two guys that wanted it and went for it. Martinez's overhand right was landing way too much imo, a blueprint for anyone fighting Williams. Martinez isnt a puncher per se, imagine a shot like that from one of the top middle weights if he dares go up to 160..its lights out.

Martinez needs to keep his hands high. There is no reason for any boxer, regardless of talent level, to have his hands down at any time. I don't care how fast you think you are. If his hands are up high, he avoids much damage and can counter much faster. If that right of his comes in 1/2 a second faster, he catches Williams at least 30% more of the time. Its totally inexcusable.

[pietasterp]

Re: HBO Boxing After Dar - 12-05-2009

I really enjoyed this fight. Two guys that wanted it and went for it. Martinez's overhand right was landing way too much imo, a blueprint for anyone fighting Williams. Martinez isnt a puncher per se, imagine a shot like that from one of the top middle weights if he dares go up to 160..its lights out.

Martinez needs to keep his hands high. There is no reason for any boxer, regardless of talent level, to have his hands down at any time. I don't care how fast you think you are. If his hands are up high, he avoids much damage and can counter much faster. If that right of his comes in 1/2 a second faster, he catches Williams at least 30% more of the time. Its totally inexcusable.

Re: your first point, I agree, but I have to give Williams some credit for having a pretty good jaw - he took some hellacious-looking shots and kept on eating at the buffet...

I also agree whole-heartedly with your second point. Frankly, I don't even like it when guys have the lead hand down a-la Roy Jones; it just doesn't make a lot of sense to me. Also, if anything, it seems like it makes your lead-hand punches slower, by virtute of the fact that they have to travel a longer distance. I guess some fighters will say they'd rather see the punches coming better or whatever, but it just seems like bad strategy to me...

[pk500]

Re: HBO Boxing After Dar - 12-05-2009

I'll watch nearly 100 fights this year, and I don't think I'll end up seeing three better than the Williams-Martinez fight. WHAT. A. FIGHT.

I had it 114-114. The only difference between my card and Harold Lederman's is that I had Martinez winning the 11th. His shots were harder and cleaner that round.

Pierre Benoist should be placed in front of an inquiry board. 119-110? Did he pass a drug test before the fight? He honestly had Paul Williams scoring 10 points in 11 of the 12 rounds? Christ, Martinez clearly won the first three rounds. He clearly won the eighth. That's lunacy.

Williams' pressure is just relentless, and that proved the difference. But Lord, was Williams sloppy in the first three rounds. He was lunging into punches and fighting way too far outside, trying to live off his reach advantage. It was an odd tactic, respecting Martinez's power, since the guy really hasn't shown that much knockout power so far in his career.

Martinez's knockdown of Williams in the first round was due to sheer sloppiness by Williams, not by technical precision by Martinez.

But take nothing away from Martinez. This guy is a BRILLIANT tactician in the ring. You rarely see a guy make so many successful and clever adjustments in the ring. In the early rounds, the right hook was wide open for Martinez. He took it.

Williams then moved inside to apply more pressure to Martinez and moved more to his right, neutering Martinez's right hand through the middle rounds, which Williams won. But then Martinez started setting up his right hook with that sneaky little left to Williams' body in about the eighth and ninth rounds, a great tactic.

And when Williams figured that out, Martinez started going with straight lefts and left hooks in the 11th and 12th round. Just brilliant tactical changes on the fly. The guy is a fantastic fighter.

But Williams' pressure is almost too much for any fighter to handle. The guy is in phenomenal shape, as he looked fresher at the end than Martinez, who also is in tremendous shape. But Williams just keeps coming and coming and coming. Even when his tactics are dodgy, as they were early in this fight, he can take confidence in knowing that his pressure should prevail.

Williams definitely looks vulnerable and frustrated against a guy who doesn't match his ridiculous work rate and who counter-punches with speed. Those are Martinez's tactics.

But Williams stopped lunging by closing the distance between himself and Martinez in round four, and that -- combined with his relentless pressure -- made the difference. I also would like to see Martinez hold his hands higher. It's OK to drop the hands as a tactic to lure in a guy and counter, but Martinez keeps his hands low the entire fight, and the fresher Williams was able to get through.

But again, what a fight. REMATCH, PLEASE! I could watch these guys seven days per week. Such skill, such balls.

These two guys could give us a 160-pound version of the incredible Vazquez-Marquez trilogy. Their skill level is that high.

Take care,
PK

[pk500]

Re: HBO Boxing After Dar - 12-05-2009

Great column about what Paul Williams needs to reach the pinnacle:

http://www.thesweetscience.com/boxing-article/7502/paul-williams-really-needs-top-trainer-would-add/

Take care,
PK

[USF11]

Re: HBO Boxing After Dar - 12-05-2009

There needs to be a rematch of that fight.

Martinez had the better looking blows, but at the same time was falling and exhausted.

I thought Martinez won but I can see where the judges won give the benefit of the doubt to Williams since he is a more marketable fighter.

[JayBee74]

Re: HBO Boxing After Dar - 12-05-2009

Great column about what Paul Williams needs to reach the pinnacle:

http://www.thesweetscience.com/boxing-article/7502/paul-williams-really-needs-top-trainer-would-add/

Take care,
PK

Add to that "not fight Martinez"-great fight but I had Martinez winning it.