I'm sorry I strayed boxing

[Money99]

Re: I'm sorry I strayed boxing

I don't remember any boo's in the GSP fight.

Anyway, for me it's never been Boxing VS. MMA - ever. I have always liked both and always will as long as I can see them. I grew up taking martial arts and watching boxing on tv sprinkled with kickboxing.

I just don't see why some people think it has to be one or the other - and starting a couple of years ago I didn't like how mma proponents had to keep saying 'boxing is a dying sport' and boxing enthusiasts showed paranoia and inferiority complex taking every opportunity to bash MMA.

Being able to thoroughly enjoy both has been awesome for me.

I'm really not trying to compare the two. I realize they're both different even though they both exist in the combat realm.
But I just can't get into the wrestling aspect. It bores me (much like a John Ruiz fight).

I know why the rule was abolished, but I really think if they allowed knees to the head while on the ground it would be a lot different.
Dan Hardy would have been KO'd in about 8 seconds. Instead, we see him lay on his back for 25 minutes just trying not to be submitted.

[mgoblue]

Re: I'm sorry I strayed boxing

And that's exactly how I feel with MMA right now.
I don't hate it or feel the need to bash the sport. It's just not jiving with my tastes.
But many guys on the MMA boards have been giving some tips on to what to watch for or strategies used in most fights. I'll continue to watch some of the free shows on Spike and VS. I'm still interested, but I find the matches that are all on the mat to be unsatisfactory to my tastes.

But I can appreciate what you're saying about boxing too. There are some real snoozers out there that can suck the life out of any fans interest.

Yeah, I'm really tired of the boxing/mma fights. Once at a UFC ppv in a bar there was a boxing guy who was just talking crap the entire show, ripping on MMA, etc.

I think the issue with boxing for me is that I didn't grow up with it that much, and there's not really a good way to just learn and appreciate the little things. If my dad had been into boxing and got me into it then things would be different.

With MMA I got into it when they had the first Ultimate Fighter, and as MMA was growing (lately) it had a ton of free stuff on tv, and did a decent job of educating the audience.

I know boxing tried "The Contender", but one big issue is not enough free stuff on tv. I guess there's Friday Night Fights, but it's a bunch of people I have no idea who they are. With the Ultimate Fighter I've gotten to know (and enjoy) watching a lot of the "scrubs" so to speak, so I can enjoy the fights with nobodies more than a boxing match with nobodies.

Plus 3 of my co-workers at least casually follow the UFC, so we'll talk about stuff...none of my friends even remotely follow boxing (aside from hearing about Pac and Mayweather on ESPN). If I had "boxing guy" to teach me the little things it might help.

[Money99]

Re: I'm sorry I strayed boxing

Yeah, I'm really tired of the boxing/mma fights. Once at a UFC ppv in a bar there was a boxing guy who was just talking crap the entire show, ripping on MMA, etc.

I think the issue with boxing for me is that I didn't grow up with it that much, and there's not really a good way to just learn and appreciate the little things. If my dad had been into boxing and got me into it then things would be different.

With MMA I got into it when they had the first Ultimate Fighter, and as MMA was growing (lately) it had a ton of free stuff on tv, and did a decent job of educating the audience.

I know boxing tried "The Contender", but one big issue is not enough free stuff on tv. I guess there's Friday Night Fights, but it's a bunch of people I have no idea who they are. With the Ultimate Fighter I've gotten to know (and enjoy) watching a lot of the "scrubs" so to speak, so I can enjoy the fights with nobodies more than a boxing match with nobodies.

Plus 3 of my co-workers at least casually follow the UFC, so we'll talk about stuff...none of my friends even remotely follow boxing (aside from hearing about Pac and Mayweather on ESPN). If I had "boxing guy" to teach me the little things it might help.

I hear you. Boxing does a piss-poor job trying to attract new fans.
There's a gazillion weight classes and a dozen belts/champions for each of them.

And having even the most insignificant of bouts on PPV doesn't help get new fans attached.
Hopkins-Jones II is a prime example of a fight that should be on free TV.
Heck, even the latest Wlad Klitscho-Chambers fight wasn't on any PPV outside of Klitscho's own website.
I never thought I'd see a day when nobody from the US was interested in seeing the HW champ of the world throw hands with a top contender.

And this is where the beauty of the UFC lies. It's simplicity allows new fans to learn quickly and become absorbed in it's world.

With boxing, I became a fan in an era when there was less ducking and more top guys going at it. I also remember seeing some good fights on ABC's Wide World of Sports.
Just recalling Tommy Morrison vs Joe Hipp brings a smile to my face.

[mgoblue]

Re: I'm sorry I strayed boxing

I hear you. Boxing does a piss-poor job trying to attract new fans.
There's a gazillion weight classes and a dozen belts/champions for each of them.

And having even the most insignificant of bouts on PPV doesn't help get new fans attached.
Hopkins-Jones II is a prime example of a fight that should be on free TV.
Heck, even the latest Wlad Klitscho-Chambers fight wasn't on any PPV outside of Klitscho's own website.
I never thought I'd see a day when nobody from the US was interested in seeing the HW champ of the world throw hands with a top contender.

And this is where the beauty of the UFC lies. It's simplicity allows new fans to learn quickly and become absorbed in it's world.

With boxing, I became a fan in an era when there was less ducking and more top guys going at it. I also remember seeing some good fights on ABC's Wide World of Sports.
Just recalling Tommy Morrison vs Joe Hipp brings a smile to my face.

I do feel for boxing fans with all the titles and promoters. MMA is much more centered on UFC (there is Dream and Strikeforce, but UFC has most of the talent), so you're likelier to see a deep card with fights you're interested in.

Everything being said, a Pac/Floyd fight will be off the charts. Boxing has a bit more main event power right now if you get the big names fighting.

[goh]

Re: I'm sorry I strayed boxing

I think you should give it another chance. 111 wasn't the best card for the...not well informed fan. Fitch bores the heck out of everyone. He hasn't actually finished a fight since 2007.

Check out the free show on Spike this wensday and the free Strikeforce show on April 17th on CBS,Mousassi vs. Lawal at that one might be the type of fight you're looking for.

[phillyfan23]

Re: I'm sorry I strayed boxing

yo hank,

been watching the UFC since its start way back in the day and UFC 111 to ME was a hugeee snorefest. It was absolutely the wrong event for a new UFC fan like you.

The problem with the GSP fight was not that it was mostly ground, but the fight was so lop-sided. I will always prefer stand up to the ground game since my background is korean martial arts (strike-fest) and big fan of boxing, but I can appreciate the ground game if both guys are competing. That GSP fight was a joke....NOTHING exciting to see there.

You gotta split the costs next time. 15 bucks four ways or what not.

too many good fights in MMA to miss for you to give up watching it IMO, but the sport is a hit or miss, some cards are exciting from the first fight to the last and then you have ufc 111, where the only real good fight was carwin-mir. I was browsing while the event was on, worst UFC event in years IMO.

[Money99]

Re: I'm sorry I strayed boxing

yo hank,

been watching the UFC since its start way back in the day and UFC 111 to ME was a hugeee snorefest. It was absolutely the wrong event for a new UFC fan like you.

The problem with the GSP fight was not that it was mostly ground, but the fight was so lop-sided. I will always prefer stand up to the ground game since my background is korean martial arts (strike-fest) and big fan of boxing, but I can appreciate the ground game if both guys are competing. That GSP fight was a joke....NOTHING exciting to see there.

You gotta split the costs next time. 15 bucks four ways or what not.

too many good fights in MMA to miss for you to give up watching it IMO, but the sport is a hit or miss, some cards are exciting from the first fight to the last and then you have ufc 111, where the only real good fight was carwin-mir. I was browsing while the event was on, worst UFC event in years IMO.

I think you should give it another chance. 111 wasn't the best card for the...not well informed fan. Fitch bores the heck out of everyone. He hasn't actually finished a fight since 2007.

Check out the free show on Spike this wensday and the free Strikeforce show on April 17th on CBS,Mousassi vs. Lawal at that one might be the type of fight you're looking for.

Thanks guys. I'll continue to give it a shot. I just wasn't sure if that's what all UFC fights typically look like.

[aholbert32]

Re: I'm sorry I strayed boxing

I chose to watch UFC 111 with friends at home instead of heading to the Joe to watch Direll-Abraham live.
I had planned the UFC event well in advance before the option for live boxing was available to me.

Anyway, I was very excited for UFC 111 as I was just starting to get into the sport. I had seen some fights previously and thought it was pretty cool. I love the way the UFC is run and how the best always fight the best.
It also possesses some cool personalities in Rampage, Lesner, Silva, Mir.

However, after last nights card I'm not sure I'm going to buy another UFC event and I'm not really sure if I'm going to work so hard to learn the sport and the fighters.
It's just boring to me.
I don't want that to be misconstrued as to say the sport is boring or that anyone's dumb for liking it. I just realized that I don't really appreciate the various skills or disciplines on display.
During the fights, a few of my friends who are big UFC/MMA fans were loving the GSP fight for how easily he can control an opponent and take them down to the floor at will.
So there's obviously a lot of people who appreciate those kinds of skills.
But I found myself extremely bored by it. It was 25 minutes of one guy laying on top of another.
And with the exception of the Mir-Carwin tilt, they were all like that.

Again, I don't want this to sound like I'm slamming MMA, but I just realized that it's not for me.
PK500 wrote a great post as to why it's not his style and I agree with him.
I love the simplicity of boxing and the ultimate goal. For the most part, in boxing, your goal is to KO someone else or beat them via a series of fists to the head.

In UFC or MMA, that's not the goal by half of the fighters. Most guys look to submit or grind out floor attacks for wins. It's just not appealing to me.

For UFC fans, I hope that UFC111 was an entertaining card for you. I did enjoy the Mir-Carwin bout. But I was hoping that more of the fights would have featured a lot more stand-up and seen some good bombs being thrown.
It's unfair really that I place these kinds of expectations on the sport because it's not boxing and the two shouldn't be compared.
But for my tastes, I prefer the logistics behind the sweet science to mixed-martial arts.

I'm still going to keep an eye on what's happening in the UFC. The Rampage-Evans fight intrigues me.
But I don't believe I'm going to plop down $60 for another PPV event.

However, watching UFC 111, I couldn't help but think of how much I would love boxing to be that well run.
Seeing GSP and an interim heavyweight bout on the same card is incredible and almost never happens in boxing. And yet it happens all the time in the UFC.
Can you imagine purchasing a boxing card where Mayweather or Pacquio fights, but the lead-in bout featured one of the Klitscho brothers?

Boxing can learn a lot from the UFC in that regard.

LOL..One PPV and you are out? Thats like me watching the Klitschko/Chambers fight and declaring that boxing is boring. Or like me complaining about boxing because it doesnt have submissions. I guess I dont know what you were looking for by watching MMA. Is it boxing with smaller gloves? If you want fighting with just fists, watch boxing. If want kicks mixed in, watch kickboxing. If you want a mix of that with wrestling and jujitsu too, you watch MMA.

There is a learning curve for any sport. If I was to teach my son about boxing, he would need to learn the different punches, defensive stances, rules, top fighters and champions (good luck with that with boxing's 100+ champions). Same with MMA.

I love both sports but I prefer MMA. I just dont understand why it has to be a choice though. I went to UFC 111 and the first thing I did when I got home was watch the Abraham/Dirrell fight. I didnt feel like I was cheating on MMA or strayed from it by watching the Dirrell fight. I love both sports.

One last thing: I have no idea what you were watching if you say the fighters werent trying to finish the fight. They showed 6 fights on the PPV, 3 of them ended in a submission or KO. 2 of them had multiple instances where someone locked in a submission where either the person escaped or refused to tap. There was one fight that fit ur description and that was the Fitch fight and that was horrible.

[aholbert32]

Re: I'm sorry I strayed boxing

I'm with you Money-I just can't get into MMA-I had a little interest in Kimbo Slice because of his YouTube backyard fights, but he didn't produce. Boxing has so much history that MMA doesn't have.

Why does history matter now though? Horse racing has a long storied history and that doesnt make it an interesting sport today. Its nice that I can read about the great fights Ali and Sugar Ray Robinson had but that doesnt do anything about me getting annoyed watching John Ruiz fight.

[jb12780]

Re: I'm sorry I strayed boxing

Money, I would recommend watching Spike Wednesday night. It is a free card and after the card the new season of The Ultimate Fighter is on.

Just by watching the fights you can become very educated on the sport and the strategies involved. Joe Rogan does a great job of breaking down the positions and nuances in MMA. He is the best color guy in MMA IMO.

[andayaman]

Re: I'm sorry I strayed boxing

For me 111 was hard to watch. The only fight I watched with any interest was Diaz/Markham since I'm a big fan of the Diaz brothers. I didn't like watching GSP take the other dude down time and time again. I didn't like it when he showed mercy on the other guy during that armbar. So I think the problem here is that I don't know the other guy's name and I don't care to know it.

I couldn't get enough of MMA a few years ago. Back when you had guys like Hughes, Tito, Lidell. Back then I really wanted to see a certain fighter kick some butt or I really wanted to see someone get their arse kicked. There was always someone to like and someone to hate and that's what made it so enjoyable, at least for me.

These days I really don't care much about a fight unless A. Silva is in it.

[Money99]

Re: I'm sorry I strayed boxing

LOL..One PPV and you are out? Thats like me watching the Klitschko/Chambers fight and declaring that boxing is boring. Or like me complaining about boxing because it doesnt have submissions. I guess I dont know what you were looking for by watching MMA. Is it boxing with smaller gloves? If you want fighting with just fists, watch boxing. If want kicks mixed in, watch kickboxing. If you want a mix of that with wrestling and jujitsu too, you watch MMA.

There is a learning curve for any sport. If I was to teach my son about boxing, he would need to learn the different punches, defensive stances, rules, top fighters and champions (good luck with that with boxing's 100+ champions). Same with MMA.

I love both sports but I prefer MMA. I just dont understand why it has to be a choice though. I went to UFC 111 and the first thing I did when I got home was watch the Abraham/Dirrell fight. I didnt feel like I was cheating on MMA or strayed from it by watching the Dirrell fight. I love both sports.

One last thing: I have no idea what you were watching if you say the fighters werent trying to finish the fight. They showed 6 fights on the PPV, 3 of them ended in a submission or KO. 2 of them had multiple instances where someone locked in a submission where either the person escaped or refused to tap. There was one fight that fit ur description and that was the Fitch fight and that was horrible.

The whole point was that I chose UFC 111 over going to the Abraham-Direll fight live in Detroit. In hindsight, it was a big mistake.
I know someone that attended the boxing card live and said it was incredible (and he's a giant UFC fan). Meanwhile, outside of the Mir-Carwin fight, I was pretty bored of the UFC event.

I'm still going to watch UFC fights and try to get into the sport. But I really hope that UFC 111 isn't the norm. John Fitch's fight was one of the most boring things I've ever seen.
And while GSP was trying to do something, Hardy just laid there hoping not to get stopped.
From everything I've read or heard, GSP does that to everyone, so maybe all of his fights are like that.

But I know I'm not in the minority because I heard quite a few boos from the crowd on Saturday. And these are people that are obviously more into the sport than I am.

[aholbert32]

Re: I'm sorry I strayed boxing

The whole point was that I chose UFC 111 over going to the Abraham-Direll fight live in Detroit. In hindsight, it was a big mistake.
I know someone that attended the boxing card live and said it was incredible (and he's a giant UFC fan). Meanwhile, outside of the Mir-Carwin fight, I was pretty bored of the UFC event.

I'm still going to watch UFC fights and try to get into the sport. But I really hope that UFC 111 isn't the norm. John Fitch's fight was one of the most boring things I've ever seen.
And while GSP was trying to do something, Hardy just laid there hoping not to get stopped.
From everything I've read or heard, GSP does that to everyone, so maybe all of his fights are like that.

But I know I'm not in the minority because I heard quite a few boos from the crowd on Saturday. And these are people that are obviously more into the sport than I am.

I would never choose a PPV over a live event especially a fight like Dirrell/Abraham and I enjoy MMA more. With that said, the Fitch fight was only 15 min of a 3hr PPV. There hasnt been a boxing or MMA card created that hasnt had one or two subpar fights. ****, the last Pacman PPV had 4 subpar fights.

The boos happen at every combat sports event. If there is too much holding in a boxing match, you will hear boos. I was at 111 and there were boos during the Fitch match (deservedly) and during round 5 of the GSP fight (not deserved) but thats because some fans want stand up all the time and dont appreciate the ground game. The people booing the GSP fight were casual fans just like you.

[Money99]

Re: I'm sorry I strayed boxing

I would never choose a PPV over a live event especially a fight like Dirrell/Abraham and I enjoy MMA more. With that said, the Fitch fight was only 15 min of a 3hr PPV. There hasnt been a boxing or MMA card created that hasnt had one or two subpar fights. ****, the last Pacman PPV had 4 subpar fights.

The boos happen at every combat sports event. If there is too much holding in a boxing match, you will hear boos. I was at 111 and there were boos during the Fitch match (deservedly) and during round 5 of the GSP fight (not deserved) but thats because some fans want stand up all the time and dont appreciate the ground game. The people booing the GSP fight were casual fans just like you.

Exactly. And that's why I'll probably remain a casual fan.
Of course there are boring boxing cards/fights, but for my tastes I'll take a boring boxing match over a boring UFC fight any day of the week. At least in boxing they're still punching each other.

In the end it's a preference of taste.
If you saw two street fights occurring at the same time and one featured two guys rolling around the ground and the other had two guys standing and trading, guess which one 99% of people would watch.

And that's where the disconnect occurs for me. I want to like UFC a lot more because of how well run it is and how dynamic some of the fighters are. But in the end, I fear a lot of the fights just won't excite me as much as even the most mediocre of boxing matches.
I just don't appreciate the ground game all that much. And when 80% of the fights go to the floor, chances are I'm not going to get my money's worth in most bouts.

But I'll continue to watch the free stuff on Spike and VS and go from there.
Cheers.

[pietasterp]

Re: I'm sorry I strayed boxing

Honestly, I actually used to really like UFC when it was in its very early days, back in the mid-to-late 90's and was basically the wild west of fighting. I liked it when they had no weight classes and different, distinct fighting styles. Seeing a karate guy go up against a sumo wrestler, difference in weight of >150lbs (at least), some guys using submissions and others being almost pure street-fighters...it was exciting and different. I think the only two rules were no kicks to the head of a downed opponent, and no fish-hooking.

Somewhere along the way, however, the sport got homogenized, and now every guy is basically the same - wrestling background, learns some basic striking, and every fight seems to be either an awkward stand-up affair between to strikers or a ground-fight with two guys laying on top of each other for minutes on end. I have some basic understanding of MMA strategy and maneuvers, and I appreciate what great athletes and competitors these guys are, but I just am not excited about it at all. Gone are the days of Tank Abbott vs Royce Gracie. To each his own, though.

And Money...passing on Dirrell-Abraham live at the Joe Louis Arena???? Tsk, tsk...if I were back in the "D", I so would've been there.