Real boxing 101

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  • tony01313
    Rookie
    • May 2006
    • 51

    #1

    Real boxing 101

    Welcome to EA Forums, where you can chat about games with other players, help each other out, share feedback, and report issues you’re having with EA games.


    Super long read

    Please click link some guy nailed it every problem that I have with the game. I usually come here operation sports for the sim experience and I am shocked at the response here for the game. What really killed me is when Mr. Sim Czar put his stamp of approval on the game, not trying too diss but this is not boxing. I looked back and thought maybe it's just me but it's not.
    Last edited by tony01313; 02-04-2011, 05:24 PM.
  • The Visualizer
    Rookie
    • Jul 2009
    • 419

    #2
    Re: Real boxing 101

    Originally posted by tony01313
    http://forum.ea.com/eaforum/posts/list/4763650.page

    Super long read

    Please click link some guy nailed it every problem that I have with the game. I usually come here operation sports for the sim experience and I am shocked at the response here for the game. What really killed me is when Mr. Sim Czar put his stamp of approval on the game, not trying too diss but this is not boxing. I looked back and thought maybe it's just me but it's not.
    good read with valid opinions...but

    I can't help thinking that people are going a bit over board in their criticisms of the idea behind the blocking system. I agree that the mechanic has been simplified from what we had before but the truth that no one seems to want to bring up is that the high/low system was a less realistic and ultimately more broken system then we have now. The loss of strategy that the OP mentioned doesn't hold much weight to me because FNR4's blocking is not a real strategy that fighter's use. Fighters don't invite headshots by blocking only their chests, they use head movement instead. The only time a fighter might solely focus on protecting body and leave his head wide open is if he has sustained a serious injury to body, and at that point the fight is prettty much always over. So people really want to go back to a blocking style that is only used 0.01% of the time in real life?

    The OP also cites FNR3's 6 way parry system a few times as an example of "tools" that have been taken away (even though he repeatedly claims he didn't use those same tools). Anyone that's played a good deal of FNR3 knows why he would be ashamed to admit he used to the parry... because it was so poorly implemented that it essentially broke the game. Might as well have called it "auto-counter", react as late as you wanted without any penalty by choosing the right side and it was money. Good riddance to that "tool".

    I agree wholeheartedly that the game needs another layer of strategy on defense. I think there is a common sense solution that unfortunately won't make it into FNC but has little to do with the blocking. I feel the blocking system right now sans the counter window that opens when you "perfect block" is fine. The OP constantly cites punch stats as his end all be all to condemning the FNC blocking system when it's pretty obvious to me that we are going to see some tuning in the area of punch accuracy to clean that up a bit. Back to the solution. The solution is to remove "perfect blocking's" counter window and in its place add some sort of parry mechanic back to the game that is a little more demanding than FNR3's system. The only way this will work without breaking the balance of the game is to also add in a reliable punch feign mechanic as a counter. I think holding a modifier button for parry then needing to predict the exact punch by the flicking the Full Spectrum Punching Stick in the proper direction might do the trick. If you guess wrong you will eat a punch clean. As far as punch feigns are concerned I like the system implemented in UFC2010 that allows you to feign strikes by cancelling the striking animation before it reachs a certain point. The punch feign will allow you to throw off the timing of fighters who decide to rely too heavily on parrying. Feigning is the only way to limit parrying's effectiveness as a tactic to be relied heavily upon.

    Does the FNC demo have it's share of problems... 100% yes, but I don't feel the "dumbed down auto-blocking" that a lot of ignorant critics and the OP (who I don't feel fits the description of an ignorant critic... just to be clear) have crucified the game for is anywhere near the top of the list of real problems...
    Last edited by The Visualizer; 02-05-2011, 11:41 AM.



    Comment

    • TheCreep
      Banned
      • Nov 2008
      • 1792

      #3
      Re: Real boxing 101

      Folks just mad I'm painting that chin.

      Comment

      • SHAKYR
        MVP
        • Nov 2003
        • 1795

        #4
        Re: Real boxing 101

        Originally posted by tony01313
        http://forum.ea.com/eaforum/posts/list/4763650.page

        Super long read

        Please click link some guy nailed it every problem that I have with the game. I usually come here operation sports for the sim experience and I am shocked at the response here for the game. What really killed me is when Mr. Sim Czar put his stamp of approval on the game, not trying too diss but this is not boxing. I looked back and thought maybe it's just me but it's not.
        I agree with alot of what he posted and disagreed too. I'm POETICDRINK2U on the EA forums. I think people get caught up in the fight game frame of mind instead of this is a (sports) boxing game.

        The one button block is to give a player the feel of throwing from the guard. Is it implemented how I would like no, but it's ok. This game has a boxing feel to it, especially after some tweaking.

        The producers are trying to serve 2 gods, Casual and Sim. It's funny because they can't really identify which is which. They think the Hardcore want things like a combination lock controller configuration. They think the majority of Casuals want flashes and sounds.

        The producers need to take NBA 2k11 route and just create the sport as realistic as possible. You can say what fans will buy if you never presented to them fully.

        The fans really need to come together on what is boxing and throw that this is a fighting game mentality out the window and tell EA to replicate the sport without the arcade things.


        * A month or so after Fight Night Champion release a couple of fans and me will be working to get a wishlist to the producers.(I will email it personally). Let's get this game on the path of being the best sim sports game.
        Poe is an advocate for realistic boxing videogames.

        Comment

        • Phobia
          Hall Of Fame
          • Jan 2008
          • 11623

          #5
          Re: Real boxing 101

          I knew before I even clicked on it, it had to be "Im cold Blooded" post. Just because it is a long read and is by a boxer does not mean it is the gospel.

          His frame of mind on how controls should be and how others feel controls should be is a personal preference!!!

          Let me explain something to you that he said. He said that he felt that certain that are tough in real life and require skill to pull off, such as the blocking game in real life. Should take the same hand eye coordination in the video game. I DISAGREE with this completely. Hell it is hard as hell to do a free throw line Jordan dunk in real life, but in NBA2k11 it is a simple flick of the right stick. It does not take away any of the "sim" aspect of NBA2k11 just because the user holding the controller did not have to load his take off, Fly through the air cradling the ball, and slamming it home .

          Just making something tough on the stick does NOT make it realistic. In certain cases things that are very natural for athletes are just that VERY NATURAL and don't require tons of THOUGHT.

          For instance it is very natural for me when I am balling to pull some crazy dribbles moves out, poppin ball over head, off knees, crossing people over, etc. But I don't have to make the dribble controls extremely tough on a controller just to simulate something tough which in reality is easy for me. So my frame of mind on this is that we are controlling virtual star athletes that know how to block. So it should be their ratings that dictate how well they block to mimic how they do it in real life. Not some 8 year old kid who sucks making Roy Jones Jr. look like a walking zombie.

          To wrap this up, basically I disagree with alot of what he said. Plus his video of FN3 is a joke. You got two people playing the game the way it is SUPPOSED to be played of course the game is going to look great. Now let me go record some real footage of online and put that side by side with his. Two completely different animals.

          Bottom line is FNC has taken the right steps to not only make it balanced(getting there). But also to make it FUN and at the end of the day the game needs to be fun to want to play it.
          Last edited by Phobia; 02-05-2011, 10:28 AM.

          Comment

          • DaveDQ
            13
            • Sep 2003
            • 7664

            #6
            Re: Real boxing 101

            We have gotten to the point to where expecting the "simulation" experience is dictating whether or not we can enjoy a video game and that in itself is then poking holes at the core of what video games are.

            The actual sport comes first. The video game is a mere representation of the sport. The problem is we are demanding this euphoric simulation experience that has never and will never be fully completed. Video games tend to offer an exaggeration of what it's representing. Sports video games will find ways to emphasize the action. People want to see/experience that.

            You are doing yourself a favor by taking things as they are and finding ways to enjoy it. I very much so enjoy talking about a game's tendencies, and I have even avoided some games because they just don't deliver on what I'm expecting, but creating this huge standard of "simulation" is not going to accomplish anything but frustration, and in fact, i'd argue that it is not what Operation Sports prides itself on.
            Being kind, one to another, never disappoints.

            Comment

            • Mr5000
              Banned
              • Dec 2010
              • 335

              #7
              Re: Real boxing 101

              Is that tony cat still crying?

              Comment

              • JayBee74
                Hall Of Fame
                • Jul 2002
                • 22989

                #8
                Re: Real boxing 101

                Originally posted by Mr5000
                Is that tony cat still crying?
                REMOVED CRYING FACE
                Last edited by JayBee74; 02-05-2011, 12:54 PM.

                Comment

                • SHAKYR
                  MVP
                  • Nov 2003
                  • 1795

                  #9
                  Re: Real boxing 101

                  Originally posted by Phobia
                  I knew before I even clicked on it, it had to be "Im cold Blooded" post. Just because it is a long read and is by a boxer does not mean it is the gospel.

                  His frame of mind on how controls should be and how others feel controls should be is a personal preference!!!

                  Let me explain something to you that he said. He said that he felt that certain that are tough in real life and require skill to pull off, such as the blocking game in real life. Should take the same hand eye coordination in the video game. I DISAGREE with this completely. Hell it is hard as hell to do a free throw line Jordan dunk in real life, but in NBA2k11 it is a simple flick of the right stick. It does not take away any of the "sim" aspect of NBA2k11 just because the user holding the controller did not have to load his take off, Fly through the air cradling the ball, and slamming it home .

                  Just making something tough on the stick does NOT make it realistic. In certain cases things that are very natural for athletes are just that VERY NATURAL and don't require tons of THOUGHT.

                  For instance it is very natural for me when I am balling to pull some crazy dribbles moves out, poppin ball over head, off knees, crossing people over, etc. But I don't have to make the dribble controls extremely tough on a controller just to simulate something tough which in reality is easy for me. So my frame of mind on this is that we are controlling virtual star athletes that know how to block. So it should be their ratings that dictate how well they block to mimic how they do it in real life. Not some 8 year old kid who sucks making Roy Jones Jr. look like a walking zombie.

                  To wrap this up, basically I disagree with alot of what he said. Plus his video of FN3 is a joke. You got two people playing the game the way it is SUPPOSED to be played of course the game is going to look great. Now let me go record some real footage of online and put that side by side with his. Two completely different animals.

                  Bottom line is FNC has taken the right steps to not only make it balanced(getting there). But also to make it FUN and at the end of the day the game needs to be fun to want to play it.
                  We are in agreement fully. I truly hope are a part of our wishlist group after the game's release.

                  Originally posted by DaveDQ
                  We have gotten to the point to where expecting the "simulation" experience is dictating whether or not we can enjoy a video game and that in itself is then poking holes at the core of what video games are.

                  The actual sport comes first. The video game is a mere representation of the sport. The problem is we are demanding this euphoric simulation experience that has never and will never be fully completed. Video games tend to offer an exaggeration of what it's representing. Sports video games will find ways to emphasize the action. People want to see/experience that.

                  You are doing yourself a favor by taking things as they are and finding ways to enjoy it. I very much so enjoy talking about a game's tendencies, and I have even avoided some games because they just don't deliver on what I'm expecting, but creating this huge standard of "simulation" is not going to accomplish anything but frustration, and in fact, i'd argue that it is not what Operation Sports prides itself on.
                  You are saying simulation in a sports game isn't reachable? I will have to disagree my friend and you are limiting how hard the producers will push to make a complete representation of the sport.
                  If it wasn't for the fans pushing game producers to do better we will still be playing pong or Atari looking games.

                  The producers like for fans to push for things because it gives them to strive for...

                  and are you saying a fully sim sports game would be boring?
                  Poe is an advocate for realistic boxing videogames.

                  Comment

                  • tony01313
                    Rookie
                    • May 2006
                    • 51

                    #10
                    Re: Real boxing 101

                    Originally posted by JayBee74
                    Lol that's how I really feel, I love boxing and was so looking forward too this game. Seems like each game EA is dumbing down the experience instead fixing them problems. How can you add all these offensive moves and not add on to the defense instead you take it out as as a hole.

                    I must say the graphics on champion is the best I have ever seen in a video game it's amazing too watch.

                    Comment

                    • JayBee74
                      Hall Of Fame
                      • Jul 2002
                      • 22989

                      #11
                      Re: Real boxing 101

                      Originally posted by tony01313
                      Lol that's how I really feel, I love boxing and was so looking forward too this game. Seems like each game EA is dumbing down the experience instead fixing them problems. How can you add all these offensive moves and not add on to the defense instead you take it out as as a hole.

                      I must say the graphics on champion is the best I have ever seen in a video game it's amazing too watch.
                      I hear ya' Tony. I can see you're genuinely disappointed in the game, but I don't think you're giving it a chance.

                      Hey, you don't like the blocking, some of us do. I don't look at what was taken away from offense and defense. I just see a much superior game from FN4.

                      Comment

                      • DaveDQ
                        13
                        • Sep 2003
                        • 7664

                        #12
                        Re: Real boxing 101

                        Originally posted by SHAKYR
                        We are in agreement fully. I truly hope are a part of our wishlist group after the game's release.



                        You are saying simulation in a sports game isn't reachable? I will have to disagree my friend and you are limiting how hard the producers will push to make a complete representation of the sport.
                        If it wasn't for the fans pushing game producers to do better we will still be playing pong or Atari looking games.

                        The producers like for fans to push for things because it gives them to strive for...

                        and are you saying a fully sim sports game would be boring?
                        I'm saying to set expectations that a video game will properly represent the sport, and then anticipating that to happen will only lead to frustration. Video games cover a very broad base. And like you mentioned earlier, we should embrace the positives and continue to look forward to future iterations.

                        That's not to say I won't place my opinion or expectations. I really enjoy reading what others have to say and what they think can make things better. I'm heavy into presentation, so I'll come down hard on that. As a spectator, I want my game to be colorful and the audio presentation done so well I can close my eyes an know what's happening. But we know where the FN series stands there. Still I will enjoy the title.
                        Being kind, one to another, never disappoints.

                        Comment

                        • SHAKYR
                          MVP
                          • Nov 2003
                          • 1795

                          #13
                          Re: Real boxing 101

                          Originally posted by DaveDQ
                          I'm saying to set expectations that a video game will properly represent the sport, and then anticipating that to happen will only lead to frustration. Video games cover a very broad base. And like you mentioned earlier, we should embrace the positives and continue to look forward to future iterations.

                          That's not to say I won't place my opinion or expectations. I really enjoy reading what others have to say and what they think can make things better. I'm heavy into presentation, so I'll come down hard on that. As a spectator, I want my game to be colorful and the audio presentation done so well I can close my eyes an know what's happening. But we know where the FN series stands there. Still I will enjoy the title.
                          Guys like you make me appreciate posting here because the responses are mature.
                          Poe is an advocate for realistic boxing videogames.

                          Comment

                          • randombrother
                            Banned
                            • Oct 2009
                            • 1275

                            #14
                            Re: Real boxing 101

                            Originally posted by DaveDQ
                            The actual sport comes first. The video game is a mere representation of the sport. The problem is we are demanding this euphoric simulation experience that has never and will never be fully completed. Video games tend to offer an exaggeration of what it's representing. Sports video games will find ways to emphasize the action. People want to see/experience that.
                            I agree with this. It's like this in EVERY sports game. Even the much heralded NBA 2K11. As good as it is at the end of the day it really IS an ESPN highlight game. However, what should be done, like 2K11 attempted to do, is make two games in one. Just as NBA 2K11 has a simulation setting that can be played online (which still needs work, fortunately I found some excellent sliders) this game needs a simulation lobby/slider set for those of us who want to play the game in a different way, a more realistic way.

                            Comment

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