The "Getting Up" Mini-Game in Fight Night

[DaveDQ]

I still casually play FNC, and I'm not the best at it, so that means I have experience in trying to get up. I'm now beginning to wonder if that type of mini game has it's place in the series.

For starters, you basically have 4 chances to get up in FNC. If you go late into the rounds and haven't been knocked down, it is more difficult to get up, making it really tough to get up after two knockdowns. But the logic here is flawed to me. You basically go into the fight with a handful of knockdown passes, irrespective of how hard you get hit and where your stamina is in the fight. And then after that you are presented with a mini-game where your ability to win it is again more to do about how many times you've been knocked down, rather than the physical toll you have taken.

This now leads to the knockdown animations. It doesn't take long to realize that the knockdown animations do not parallel the physical condition of your fighter when he gets hit. Even the commentary lacks here. Just last night I knocked a guy down with right straight that caught him while his stamina dropped and he did the freeze up, arms open to the side, fall back to the canvas animation. By the looks of it, my opponent was done, but by the count of 3 he was back up ready to start swinging again. Here's what the commentary said, "Ohh..and down he goes...but can he get back up?!?" That's a paraphrase, but if you are calling a fight and see a guy fall like that, are you questioning his capacity to get back up?

This goes back to the game developer's desire to be able to include the uncommon that boxing often gives us and put it in the game with more frequency. Over the top animations that lead you to believe the fight is over are countered with a mini-game that gives you a "three strikes and you're out" type experience.

So I say do away with the mini-game and make your ability to get up entirely based on a combination of things like your chin rating, current stamina, how flush the shot hit, your opponents punching power etc. Create an unpredictability factor where you don't have the security of four "get-ups" in your back pocket.

[BezO]

Re: The "Getting Up" Mini-Game in Fight Night

Agreed! Flash knock downs should have a set of animations. Fatigue knock downs should have a set. Dazed should have a set. Body shot knock downs should have a set (these are just silly). And the fight is/might be over should have a set.

And yes, please get rid of the mini game. I kinda want to be involved in my boxer getting up, but at least ditch the meter and base my success on quality of punch, chin & heart.

And add the ability for boxers with heart to get up after fight ending knock downs and have the ref stop the fight with the boxer on his feet. Having stoppages for seriously hurt, tough boxers, that don't go down would be cool too.

I could also do without the 1st person view after getting knocked down. Give me the option of a seemless knock down to count sequence from a 3rd person view.

[DaveDQ]

Re: The "Getting Up" Mini-Game in Fight Night

Good points. I too would want to be involved in getting up but I'm not sure on how it should be done. Maybe attribute "heart" to your fighter's ability to get back up and allow that to be conditioned through training and experience.

I don't mind watching it though. I like how in offline you can view your opponent trying to get up. But there needs to be more depth in it all. Something UFC 3 adds is a ref stopping the action for a cut to be checked. We need to see that kind of variety in this game. Standing eight counts, the ref talking to a guy that just got rocked, an animation where the ref is in the fighter's front waving his hands and calling the fight for stoppage. It's just too predictable right now.

I bring this up because this game can no longer rely on the over the top style it has given for so long. It has to start doing things that show they are embracing the sport and not just the heart pumping moments of the sport. Those are fun but there is so much that surrounds those moments that can truly be represented in a boxing game.

[Money99]

Re: The "Getting Up" Mini-Game in Fight Night

Nice post DaveDQ. It would be like crushing a baseball and seeing an animation of your batter, flipping his stick and slowly trotting towards first-base, only to have the shortstop catch the ball.

I never liked the knockdown mini-game. I'd prefer the factors of the fight and attributes of the fighters dictate whether you or your opponent can gain their feet.

I hate to continue to compare but in VB that game did it right.
You knew whether it was a flash knockdown or you were done for the night.

I'm still skeptical that there'll be another game. The sales dropped considerably from the first FN to Champion.

I'm a broken record, but this isn't 1984 anymore. You need to have a very deep career mode to make boxing or MMA games have more longevity.
I'm so sick and tired of the train, collect points, fight crap.
You're basically fighting the same guys all the time. I'm 55, my opponents 58.
Fast forward 2 weeks, now I'm 85 and I'm fighting someone 88.
That makes no sense and it's BORING.

If there is a sequel, I hope EA actually used all 24 months to build on it. I know that's a pipedream but I feel this series needs that much time to regroup and build on a pretty good engine.

[DaveDQ]

Re: The "Getting Up" Mini-Game in Fight Night

It would be like crushing a baseball and seeing an animation of your batter, flipping his stick and slowly trotting towards first-base, only to have the shortstop catch the ball.

That is a great analogy.

I sure hope they or someone else continues boxing, and I agree, they really need to get boxing down in this game for it to continue to be appealing. At one point it was having Ali, then it was having Tyson. In their latest version they chose to still look away from embracing the actual sport and tried the short story mode.

The game has never had at its core selling point the sport of boxing. They have always relied on external resources to be its primary focus.

[Money99]

Re: The "Getting Up" Mini-Game in Fight Night

That is a great analogy.

I sure hope they or someone else continues boxing, and I agree, they really need to get boxing down in this game for it to continue to be appealing. At one point it was having Ali, then it was having Tyson. In their latest version they chose to still look away from embracing the actual sport and tried the short story mode.

The game has never had at its core selling point the sport of boxing. They have always relied on external resources to be its primary focus.

So true! At the root, boxing is a far more compelling sport than people realize.
All these other sports games have these My Player modes where you climb to the big leagues.
But no other sport is better suited for a mode like this than boxing.
It has personal triumph, defeat, individualism, scumbags, drama, etc.
The storymode would have been great if it was dynamic and let you carve your own course.
I love My Player modes in other games. But working a kid from the AHL to NHL or AA-ball to the majors should be incredibly boring compared to what a boxer endures to win a belt.
When that side of boxing is explored in a video game, I could see boxing taking off in sales and interest.

[datdude69]

Re: The "Getting Up" Mini-Game in Fight Night

The getting up mini game is just another ridiculous component to what could have been an otherwise nice boxing game. This game is SO broken it just aint funny. You working a guy online for 9 rounds and he gets a shot of steroids in the 10th and knocks you down 3 times in a row with either the "bully" tactic or with absolutely nothing. Just the cpu saying , "oh well you lose".

So many times I've been ready to break this game in half. I think it's a case where I've "outgrown" sports games. As time went on I was looking for more and more sim gameplay from sports games and it seems to get worse and worse as the years go by. Seems like 2003-2005 was around the golden age of sim.

[DaveDQ]

Re: The "Getting Up" Mini-Game in Fight Night

The getting up mini game is just another ridiculous component to what could have been an otherwise nice boxing game. This game is SO broken it just aint funny. You working a guy online for 9 rounds and he gets a shot of steroids in the 10th and knocks you down 3 times in a row with either the "bully" tactic or with absolutely nothing. Just the cpu saying , "oh well you lose".

So many times I've been ready to break this game in half. I think it's a case where I've "outgrown" sports games. As time went on I was looking for more and more sim gameplay from sports games and it seems to get worse and worse as the years go by. Seems like 2003-2005 was around the golden age of sim.

It's tough when the game doesn't show signs of becoming a better representation of the sport. What they ride on is what's eye candy to the masses in the sport (big knockdowns, popular fighters etc.).

But all it would take for me is for them to concentrate on better boxing, and the knockdown logic and mini-game to get up could use some work. The only reason I still play the game is because I can separate the fact that they chose not to go deeper. If you fight online, and you are extremely patient, the later rounds give you something special because you can now breakdown your opponent. The problem is you have to survive some crazy exploits to do so.

[Money99]

Re: The "Getting Up" Mini-Game in Fight Night

The getting up mini game is just another ridiculous component to what could have been an otherwise nice boxing game. This game is SO broken it just aint funny. You working a guy online for 9 rounds and he gets a shot of steroids in the 10th and knocks you down 3 times in a row with either the "bully" tactic or with absolutely nothing. Just the cpu saying , "oh well you lose".

So many times I've been ready to break this game in half. I think it's a case where I've "outgrown" sports games. As time went on I was looking for more and more sim gameplay from sports games and it seems to get worse and worse as the years go by. Seems like 2003-2005 was around the golden age of sim.

I'm getting to that point as well. I used to buy a bevy of different sports games and now it's 1, maybe 2 a year.
This year was basketball and baseball - no hockey, boxing or even tennis.

I wonder if it has a lot to do with the younger generation always getting a trophy.
I hate painting a whole group with a broad-stroke, but for the past 10+ years, every kid is pushed along in school, everyone gets a medal, there's losers, only winners, etc.
So when that generation gets older they can't handle losing.
It's why we see so much cheesing online.
A guy would rather play completely unrealistic as long as it means a 'W'.
If EA had programmed a special hack that said "press A 1000 times and you automatically win", I would bet my last dollar there would be hundreds of thousands of people doing just that.
They don't care that they're not even playing a game, only mashing a button, just so they can consider themselves a winner.

And now gaming companies are forced to cowtow to this denomination of gamers simply because they think they have to in order to make money.

[DaveDQ]

Re: The "Getting Up" Mini-Game in Fight Night

I'm getting to that point as well. I used to buy a bevy of different sports games and now it's 1, maybe 2 a year.
This year was basketball and baseball - no hockey, boxing or even tennis.

I wonder if it has a lot to do with the younger generation always getting a trophy.
I hate painting a whole group with a broad-stroke, but for the past 10+ years, every kid is pushed along in school, everyone gets a medal, there's losers, only winners, etc.
So when that generation gets older they can't handle losing.
It's why we see so much cheesing online.
A guy would rather play completely unrealistic as long as it means a 'W'.
If EA had programmed a special hack that said "press A 1000 times and you automatically win", I would bet my last dollar there would be hundreds of thousands of people doing just that.
They don't care that they're not even playing a game, only mashing a button, just so they can consider themselves a winner.

And now gaming companies are forced to cowtow to this denomination of gamers simply because they think they have to in order to make money.

I think cheat codes and glitches being part of the gaming culture is what hurts sports games. For those who desire a realistic experience in their sports games, boosts and "glitching" is frowned upon. I was noticing in Tiger Woods 13 how they have these "pins" where you can enhance your gameplay by so many points, giving you a better performance. This kind of thing has always been a part of gaming.

When you look at the Fight Night series, they have tried to take advantage of that. Champion mode is a classic arcade experience where you work your way up to fighting the Boss. Boosts can now be purchased so your fighter is immediately in the 90's for his ratings.

It really is a revelation of where gaming is. EA is riding on the premise that gamers don't want to play the game and level up accordingly, but are looking for a "cheat code" to get right into "God mode." So they create boosts and XP points for purchase.

Rather than pressing "up, up, down down etc." at start, you are now drawing from your bank account...just like EA wants it.