Boxing videogame campaign, do you want another boxing game?

[Phobia]

Re: Boxing videogame campaign, do you want another boxing game?

You know I got your back on this Poe! I just truly don't think anyone is listening and going to make a realistic boxing game.

[SHAKYR]

Re: Boxing videogame campaign, do you want another boxing game?

You know I got your back on this Poe! I just truly don't think anyone is listening and going to make a realistic boxing game.

As I heard it from a couple of producers," It takes the fans to make a change happen, most of the time our hands are tied"

I'm the one who challenges the times their hands aren't tied what were you doing to really replicate the sport?

[pietasterp]

Re: Boxing videogame campaign, do you want another boxing game?

I wonder if boxing is just too hard of a sport to replicate in video game form, or if it is one of those sports that just doesn't lend itself well to being put into game form. I feel like it can be done, but if I'm being honest the most fun I've had with "boxing" games are the ones that aren't very realistic at all ("Punch-Out!" being my all-time fave, followed closely by "Ring King" and "ABC Wide World of Sports Boxing" aka "TV Sports Boxing"). The modern boxing games I just find myself being bored and/or frustrated by - mostly by the lack of ability to really move, weave, and punch simultaneously. There's no sense of fluidity - it seems like the games boil down to: walk up to opponent, punch, move back, punch, etc... Not that there were in the earlier games I mentioned, but at least those had simplistic fun mechanics. I would be all for a good realistic boxing sim, I'm just not sure how it could be done outside of a kinect-type game, which would pretty much then require a shower and a cool-down period after every bout. Although I guess it would be a really good way to stay in shape!

[Phobia]

Re: Boxing videogame campaign, do you want another boxing game?

As I heard it from a couple of producers," It takes the fans to make a change happen, most of the time our hands are tied"

I'm the one who challenges the times their hands aren't tied what were you doing to really replicate the sport?

I wish you would of been there when I was down for FNC. If you would of played the build we got to play you would of seen the "possibilities" we got to see. Sadly after we left and came back the gameplay changed pretty drastically from the pre-build we got our hands on. It was slower, the stamina was way more pronounced, the punch accuracy was way more reduced, and punch power was pretty damn thrilling.

It was not perfect by any means, gameplay was still similar to now as far as movement and such. But for the short comings of the current engine the gameplay itself was at its highest point.

It made exchanges appear more realistic since a flurry of 4 or 5 punches would result in wayyyy more glancing and missed shots. This then resulted in winded boxers after these quick exchanges which lowered punch outputs and you didn't get these 150 punch rounds you see now in the current game. Then lastly when a punch did land square you could drop people. I dropped a guy with a perfect jab on the chin as he was leaning in and I stepped in lead with jab. Current build you can land power hooks over and over and they just take shots like little rockem sockem robots waiting for their head to pop up.

[SHAKYR]

Re: Boxing videogame campaign, do you want another boxing game?

I wish you would of been there when I was down for FNC. If you would of played the build we got to play you would of seen the "possibilities" we got to see. Sadly after we left and came back the gameplay changed pretty drastically from the pre-build we got our hands on. It was slower, the stamina was way more pronounced, the punch accuracy was way more reduced, and punch power was pretty damn thrilling.

It was not perfect by any means, gameplay was still similar to now as far as movement and such. But for the short comings of the current engine the gameplay itself was at its highest point.

It made exchanges appear more realistic since a flurry of 4 or 5 punches would result in wayyyy more glancing and missed shots. This then resulted in winded boxers after these quick exchanges which lowered punch outputs and you didn't get these 150 punch rounds you see now in the current game. Then lastly when a punch did land square you could drop people. I dropped a guy with a perfect jab on the chin as he was leaning in and I stepped in lead with jab. Current build you can land power hooks over and over and they just take shots like little rockem sockem robots waiting for their head to pop up.

You proved they can make an accurate representation of boxing but they are trying too hard to fence ride. This is pretty much why the sales of the franchise have slipped greatly. They trying to blame the sport! They need to blame the product.

I wonder if boxing is just too hard of a sport to replicate in video game form, or if it is one of those sports that just doesn't lend itself well to being put into game form. I feel like it can be done, but if I'm being honest the most fun I've had with "boxing" games are the ones that aren't very realistic at all ("Punch-Out!" being my all-time fave, followed closely by "Ring King" and "ABC Wide World of Sports Boxing" aka "TV Sports Boxing"). The modern boxing games I just find myself being bored and/or frustrated by - mostly by the lack of ability to really move, weave, and punch simultaneously. There's no sense of fluidity - it seems like the games boil down to: walk up to opponent, punch, move back, punch, etc... Not that there were in the earlier games I mentioned, but at least those had simplistic fun mechanics. I would be all for a good realistic boxing sim, I'm just not sure how it could be done outside of a kinect-type game, which would pretty much then require a shower and a cool-down period after every bout. Although I guess it would be a really good way to stay in shape!

You just answered your statement to why the game isn't fun especially to a boxing fan. It can be done outside of Kinect or Move. NBA 2K and MLB: The Show doesn't push realism by using the controls. As, it was stated by Phobia they had some of the tools in place but they
removed them. The producers are fighting against themselves trying to please the wrong people.

The producers jump on the idea of working on the EA UFC game. A UFC game is far harder to work on than boxing. It has more movements and body parts being used. Please don't fall into that giving the producers excuses because they will read it and feed on it.
I went to EA for Fight Night Round 4 and I wasn't accepting anything they were feeding me, because they wanted me to agree with their vision instead of creating a realistic boxing game.
Fans equate realism to boring. This is false! How many times you were on the edge of your seat or wow'ed by a match. Imagine putting matches together to see how a boxer fairs with his tendencies and abilities vs. another boxer. It would be exciting because the right things are in place to get the right or close to results you want.

[Phobia]

Re: Boxing videogame campaign, do you want another boxing game?

Fans equate realism to boring. This is false! How many times you were on the edge of your seat or wow'ed by a match. Imagine putting matches together to see how a boxer fairs with his tendencies and abilities vs. another boxer. It would be exciting because the right things are in place to get the right or close to results you want.

I wanted to focus on this section because I completely agree. This is also widely true with NBA2k and The Show being considered two of the best sports this generation and both represent their sport more realistically.

Why do you think people love sports in real life? It is not because there is insane over the top action 24/7, you have to have those dull low points followed by those jump out your seat moments. That is what makes sports entertaining.

For instance, gymnastics are incredible to watch. They are flipping and spinning in all these crazy manners and it seems super human at times. Yet you can easily get bored watching it because it is the same over the top experience over and over and over.

Everything from Soccer, basketball, football, to hockey have these exciting moments BUT the large part of it is filled with "so so" entertaining stuff.

Here is a Example

Football - You watching Michael Turner pound the rock all game for 2 to 3 yard gains. The Falcons are down by 3 and just can't get any offense going, then on a 2nd and long late in the 3rd quarter Turner pops one up the side line for 35 yards. You jump out your seat screaming "GO GO GO GO GO GOOOOOO!!!" The excitement comes from you knowing the game is not filled with these over the top moments all the time so this might be their shot to take the lead. This is the same reason in Madden you can pop a 70 yard run and not get excited, because you see it to much.

Boxing is no different and needs those dull moments followed by the rare excitement.

[pietasterp]

Re: Boxing videogame campaign, do you want another boxing game?

I agree with both of the comments above; my earlier comment was actually in agreement with the idea that most boxing games aren't fun precisely because they aren't realistic (you don't see players being able to fluidly move, punch, and duck/weave simultaneously). In a way, the modern games - despite having way better graphics - are essentially no different than the old "Ring King" or similar games where you stalk the other player into a corner or stationary position, then try to flurry like crazy until the bell rings. I can't envision how they can change that for the better, but I'm sure someone innovative or creative enough could figure it out. Maybe it requires some bit of automation and taking away player control, I don't know, but the only way I can think of to allow you to control all the moving parts simultaneously would be a Kinect-type game. I'd be willing to give anything new a shot, though.

[jmarcguy]

Re: Boxing videogame campaign, do you want another boxing game?

Foot movement is terrible. Not sure they can duplicate the ability to move at angles like a real boxer. They aren't always squared up in real life.

No matter how good the game is, will gamers play in the true spirit of the sport? Anybody lose to a guy throwing body jabs to the body? Like 10 jabs?? How bout guys who throw 125 lunches a round. Non stop. Not fun to me. I love strategy. Most players just do their thing & never think about strategy.

[Phobia]

See this is the thing, if the gameplay is balanced correctly then it fixes most of those cheese.

Let's look at nonstop 130 punches a round player and how to fix it in FNC. It's real simple.

Punch accuracy greatly reduced. This then means more misses in the pocket, which then reduces temp stamina much faster which then equal to a winded boxer. So this then forces them to tire faster which reduce punch output as well.

Lastly this removes a lot of the rockem sockem feel to the gameplay due to boxers not eating tons of big shots. Ramp up punch power and block strength and you force more tactical strategy.


Sent from da lil phone.

[jmarcguy]

Re: Boxing videogame campaign, do you want another boxing game?

Sounds good to me!! I'll play it! Lol! If only....

[fistofrage]

Re: Boxing videogame campaign, do you want another boxing game?

See this is the thing, if the gameplay is balanced correctly then it fixes most of those cheese.

Let's look at nonstop 130 punches a round player and how to fix it in FNC. It's real simple.

Punch accuracy greatly reduced. This then means more misses in the pocket, which then reduces temp stamina much faster which then equal to a winded boxer. So this then forces them to tire faster which reduce punch output as well.

Lastly this removes a lot of the rockem sockem feel to the gameplay due to boxers not eating tons of big shots. Ramp up punch power and block strength and you force more tactical strategy.


Sent from da lil phone.

They tried reducing accuracy and what they came up with was a forcefield where your glove just stops before it hits the opponent. That was terrible.

To make a real boxing game, the main thing they need to do is make punches very powerful and add footwork and a good blocking system. If punches do alot of damage, people will be hesitant to go charging in and flailing punches. You'll see alot of moving in and out and people blocking. This will reduce the punch output and still keep you on your toes.

Think of a first person shooter where 1 hit = dead. What you have is people going for cover, using flanking strategies, etc.

This is why the game was actually much better when it first came out. At any time you could be knocked out if you didn't use some strategy. All these 6'8" behemoths were easy prey because they didn't use any strategy. But then the 13 year old whiners cried about being knocked out and the game went down a slippery slope from a pretty decent game to downright terrible through the use of patches and looney tuners.

[Phobia]

Re: Boxing videogame campaign, do you want another boxing game?

They tried reducing accuracy and what they came up with was a forcefield where your glove just stops before it hits the opponent. That was terrible.

To make a real boxing game, the main thing they need to do is make punches very powerful and add footwork and a good blocking system. If punches do alot of damage, people will be hesitant to go charging in and flailing punches. You'll see alot of moving in and out and people blocking. This will reduce the punch output and still keep you on your toes.

Think of a first person shooter where 1 hit = dead. What you have is people going for cover, using flanking strategies, etc.

This is why the game was actually much better when it first came out. At any time you could be knocked out if you didn't use some strategy. All these 6'8" behemoths were easy prey because they didn't use any strategy. But then the 13 year old whiners cried about being knocked out and the game went down a slippery slope from a pretty decent game to downright terrible through the use of patches and looney tuners.

In the community event version we played it was not this way. Accuracy was really low but there was no "force field". The punches glanced and missed how you would expect. I'm not sure where you encountered that cause I traded it in long before all the different tuners.

[fistofrage]

Re: Boxing videogame campaign, do you want another boxing game?

In the community event version we played it was not this way. Accuracy was really low but there was no "force field". The punches glanced and missed how you would expect. I'm not sure where you encountered that cause I traded it in long before all the different tuners.

The forcefield came a couple of months later. I can't remember the evolution from playable game to garbage heap, but at one point online everyone was ducking down and boddy jabbing flat footed in the center of the ring. The forcefield I think came just after that, maybe before. EA sports games just flat out stink.

[Phobia]

The forcefield came a couple of months later. I can't remember the evolution from playable game to garbage heap, but at one point online everyone was ducking down and boddy jabbing flat footed in the center of the ring. The forcefield I think came just after that, maybe before. EA sports games just flat out stink.

Ahhh I was long gone by that point. After the freezing issues and broken sliders I was on fence of quitting. Then when they told me the sliders were not broken I had enough and no longer touched it since. I have been playing fight night round 4 more honestly.


Sent from da lil phone.

[DaveDQ]

Re: Boxing videogame campaign, do you want another boxing game?

I used to think that realism meant boring with gaming, but then I started realizing I'm putting out $60.00 on a game, and then being able to hit free throws from full court, throwing 8 touchdown passes in one half and throwing 200 punches a round became boring.

If the detail is there, the game can be an extremely exciting play. There is a reason these sports generate support. The sport itself is exciting. Yes, the "action" moments boost the excitement, but the sport alone, with all its statistic keeping, parity and skill make people come back.