Boxing Off-Topic

[JayBee74]

Re: Boxing Off-Topic

re Patterson though, - not a glass jaw at all - I went to his Boxrec. He had 5 losses via ko/tko - 2 to liston and 2 to Ali (both tko) and 1 tko to Ingemar Johansson which he avenged twice in a row to brutally ko him. AFTEr his bouts with Liston, his only tko losses were to Ali, 1 2 years later (6 fights later) and 1 which was the final bout of his career (RTD) which was 7 years later (9 after Liston). Another note on that was his FOTY bout with George Chivalo (whom I've had the pleasure of meeting) which was also after the Liston bouts in 1965. ...Now go to the naughty corner hahaha

I would say that he got knocked down a lot. He was hurt badly in the rubber bout against Ingo before prevailing and the Olympic gold guy who chose his first pro bout to be for the world title against Floyd knocked him down. He had heart though.

[edaddy]

Re: Boxing Off-Topic

[QUOTE=allBthere;2049974416]I keep forgetting how small some of the old 'heavyweights' were, but to be fair - Patterson has the most brutal knockout of all time for me (left hook with the twitching feet). His overall Ko reel is maybe the most impressive of all time - he hit with dynamite! He

Just to piggy back a really large good heavyweight is rare..Frazier was 205. Ali was 210.and I have been literslly next to Mike Tyson dozens of time he is a smsll framed dude..and he looks about 200 lbs..Holyfield is another one he was real slim and I couldnt believe the size of his legs..The three heavyweights that have stood out to me in person was Foreman lenox lewis and Riddick Bowe they were big tall dudes and Im 6ft3...Wilder in person is tall but is real slim..but his arms are real long..I think that evolution.has played a part in big athletic boxers..even though I ironically think a small fast powerful heavyweight ala tyson would mop up the division..

[Money99]

Re: Boxing Off-Topic

Wilder with one of the most devastating right hands I've seen in a long time. Boom....all it takes is one

And I think this is why the boxing community has to start cutting Wilder some slack.
He's never going to be confused with Ali, Lennox or Larry Holmes.
He knows what he is. He knows he's not going to out box anyone. He has great stamina, can take a punch and bides his time until he lands that one great shot.
As he said, he only has to be perfect for 2s, while they have to be perfect for 36 minutes.

It's time that Wilder gets a shot with the winner of Joshua/Ruiz.
But I have a feeling that Joshua wins the rematch which means the trilogy wraps up in May - meaning we don't see Wilder fight either of them till Sept of 2020.
This is the sad state of boxing these days.

When they showed the tale of the tape Wilder vs Lewis (lennox) I couldn't help but think how he would have lost against many guys in the past. I'd have Forman, Lewis, Ali, Louis, Marciano, Klitschko, Patterson, Frazier Holyfield, Tyson and I'd even pick Joshua to win assuming he comes back to form and beats Ruiz - hell even Ruiz I'd think has a chance. So knowing that and seeing his record was tough to stomach that he's breaking Ali's record of Title defences, like he's only fought a couple of decent opponents. People pad their records too much before facing elite competition, I think it's sort of getting better and undefeated doesn't matter as much as it did even 5 years ago - but getting to be like 34-0 and waiting until you're in your 30s to test your metal is a bit of a waste to me.

The problem is too many guys have ducked Wilder. Joshua wanted no part of him. And I think Wilder KO's him easily.
He has zero chin or stamina. I think Joshua could be one of the more overrated HW champs in a long, long time.
In a lot of ways, Joshua is similar to Patterson in that he's a good fighter, but not great and has a great promoter to build up a persona of excellence while avoiding anyone remotely dangerous enough to upset the apple cart.
Nobody in Joshua's circle thought Ruiz had a chance. That was a huge shock and IMO it really exposed Joshua for what he is.
No discredit to Ruiz's win, but I don't think he's a great fighter. He's more of a Areolla type guy. A very good gatekeeper.
But good on him for cashing in that lottery ticket. He'll never have to work again. Especially if he does lose and get that trilogy money.

Right now, who is there at HW? Legit fighters?
Joshua, Ruiz, WIlder, Fury and Dubois (remains to be seen).
It's bad that boxrec has Usyk as the #4 prospect and he hasn't done crap at HW yet.

IMO, Wilder is the most dangerous and exciting HW right now.
I agree that he doesn't stand against HW's of old, but that's not his fault. And he's shown a willingness to fight everyone.
Despite the outcome of the first fight, Ortiz was still a dangerous fight to take. If he loses, noway Hearn would agree to put Joshua in the ring with him. That would have given him his out.

[Money99]

Re: Boxing Off-Topic

[QUOTE=edaddy;2049975216]

I keep forgetting how small some of the old 'heavyweights' were, but to be fair - Patterson has the most brutal knockout of all time for me (left hook with the twitching feet). His overall Ko reel is maybe the most impressive of all time - he hit with dynamite! He

Just to piggy back a really large good heavyweight is rare..Frazier was 205. Ali was 210.and I have been literslly next to Mike Tyson dozens of time he is a smsll framed dude..and he looks about 200 lbs..Holyfield is another one he was real slim and I couldnt believe the size of his legs..The three heavyweights that have stood out to me in person was Foreman lenox lewis and Riddick Bowe they were big tall dudes and Im 6ft3...Wilder in person is tall but is real slim..but his arms are real long..I think that evolution.has played a part in big athletic boxers..even though I ironically think a small fast powerful heavyweight ala tyson would mop up the division..

LOL at Holyfields legs. Remember the old Ring Magazine posters that posted the fighters dimensions?
I've alwasy been a skinny, tall drink of water regardless of how much I work out.
My legs are my achilles heal in that it doesn't matter how much I can squat or press, they just won't grow the way I wish they would.
I was amazed to see that my legs were bigger than his. It's why he always wore big, long, baggy shorts in the ring. The PEDs he bought from "Evan Fields" sure helped him bulk up his upper body. But Holy clearly skipped leg day.
Makes you wonder about what Steward said about him; that he hated training, running or sparring.
He obviously didn't want anything to do with the squat rack either, haha.

I agree about Tyson or a shorter, stockier HW cleaning up in today's field despite the fighters being SO much bigger than years past.
Ruiz looked like a Hobbit next to Joshua and he had his way with him. Fast hands, accurate punching and the ability to stay in the pocket served him well.
The easy play is to lean on these little guys to drain them of their stamina. But Ruiz wouldn't stop throwing combo's, never allowing Joshua to swallow him up.

Imagine what Tyson would have done to WIlder?
No way his skinny legs and core could have taken the damage Tyson would have reeked on his midsection.

[allBthere]

Re: Boxing Off-Topic

[QUOTE=Money99;2049978460]

LOL at Holyfields legs. Remember the old Ring Magazine posters that posted the fighters dimensions?
I've alwasy been a skinny, tall drink of water regardless of how much I work out.
My legs are my achilles heal in that it doesn't matter how much I can squat or press, they just won't grow the way I wish they would.
I was amazed to see that my legs were bigger than his. It's why he always wore big, long, baggy shorts in the ring. The PEDs he bought from "Evan Fields" sure helped him bulk up his upper body. But Holy clearly skipped leg day.
Makes you wonder about what Steward said about him; that he hated training, running or sparring.
He obviously didn't want anything to do with the squat rack either, haha.

I agree about Tyson or a shorter, stockier HW cleaning up in today's field despite the fighters being SO much bigger than years past.
Ruiz looked like a Hobbit next to Joshua and he had his way with him. Fast hands, accurate punching and the ability to stay in the pocket served him well.
The easy play is to lean on these little guys to drain them of their stamina. But Ruiz wouldn't stop throwing combo's, never allowing Joshua to swallow him up.

Imagine what Tyson would have done to WIlder?
No way his skinny legs and core could have taken the damage Tyson would have reeked on his midsection.

So we want Ruiz vs Wilder? Assuming Ruiz wins, I wonder what happens..I could see AJ fighting Wilder in a swan song to get paid, but it would be diminished. Ruiz would have a chance at beating Wilder though. I guess I'm much more willing to give Joshua the benefit of the doubt and let history play out and see if he can get back to being a winner.

I think Usyk has a big enough frame to hang at HW he's 6'3" and he really should make a run at the title, he's already 31 as well.

[Money99]

Re: Boxing Off-Topic

[QUOTE=allBthere;2049978484]

So we want Ruiz vs Wilder? Assuming Ruiz wins, I wonder what happens..I could see AJ fighting Wilder in a swan song to get paid, but it would be diminished. Ruiz would have a chance at beating Wilder though. I guess I'm much more willing to give Joshua the benefit of the doubt and let history play out and see if he can get back to being a winner.

I think Usyk has a big enough frame to hang at HW he's 6'3" and he really should make a run at the title, he's already 31 as well.

If AJ loses again, then he's essentially finished.
Hearn will want to squeeze as much milk out of that golden goose as he can by feeding him to Wilder, Usyk, etc.

I will say this, this new slimmed down AJ looks a lot more like a fighter and not someone who's competing for Mr. Universe.
I think that bodes well for him not only physiologically but also shows he's taking his career more seriously.

[jr86]

Re: Boxing Off-Topic

If Ruiz wins this fight it would be an even bigger shock than first time round if you ask me.
As we all know when you're at the top you get complacent. AJ has been treading water the last few years and took his eyes off the prize.
Nothing like a good kick in the nuts to get you back focused.
I expect him to win this comfortably enough.
Andy's had his 15mins of fame. My guess is he joins the below list of guys who beat 'the man' but were then pretty much never heard of again.
Oliver McCall,Hasim Rahman, Buster Douglas...Andy Ruiz?

[JayBee74]

Re: Boxing Off-Topic

If Ruiz wins this fight it would be an even bigger shock than first time round if you ask me.
As we all know when you're at the top you get complacent. AJ has been treading water the last few years and took his eyes off the prize.
Nothing like a good kick in the nuts to get you back focused.

You think Joshua was overconfident? I think he was underconfident and on shaky ground before he entered the ring. I don't know what to make of the strong rumors that he was badly hurt in training before that fight but something didn't look right.

It kind of comes down to how AJ handles the aftermath of the first fight. He got buzzed badly by a temple shot that he never really recovered from but I give Ruiz credit for following up.

[gmac0322]

Re: Boxing Off-Topic

ESPN is reporting that Ruiz is weighing 283 right now.

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

[jr86]

Re: Boxing Off-Topic

Wow. Ruiz 15 lbs heavier than last time. AJ 10 lbs lighter than last time.

Reminding me more and more of Duran v Leonard 2.

[edaddy]

Re: Boxing Off-Topic

ESPN is reporting that Ruiz is weighing 283 right now.

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

Thats whats called not being able to handle success..he is blowing it..

[JayBee74]

Re: Boxing Off-Topic

Wow. Ruiz 15 lbs heavier than last time. AJ 10 lbs lighter than last time.

Reminding me more and more of Duran v Leonard 2.

Interesting take. Although obviously Duran made the welterweight limit in the rematch he reportedly had to lose 50 pounds to make 147. Of course, give credit to Ray/Team for a brilliant fight plan and execution.

I keep thinking of Buster Douglas after the Ruiz weight news. He shocks the world by dominating Tyson then gets a $24+ million-dollar purse (a record at the time) then proceeds to come in fat against Holyfield and essentially call it in. Terrible decision by Ruiz although it won't matter if he wins.

[jr86]

Re: Boxing Off-Topic

Interesting take. Although obviously Duran made the welterweight limit in the rematch he reportedly had to lose 50 pounds to make 147. Of course, give credit to Ray/Team for a brilliant fight plan and execution.

I keep thinking of Buster Douglas after the Ruiz weight news. He shocks the world by dominating Tyson then gets a $24+ million-dollar purse (a record at the time) then proceeds to come in fat against Holyfield and essentially call it in. Terrible decision by Ruiz although it won't matter if he wins.

Yeah, my point was more to do with the fact of Duran basically living the high life after the first fight even though he managed to drop the weight it caught up with him in the end. Which to me is exactly what Andy has been doing but hey who can blame him?
Not wanting to take anything away from Ruiz but having just watched that first fight again, without that shot to that precise spot on AJ's temple I don't think he wins that fight.
From that point on AJ is just completely buckled, the vacant eyes, the constant looks to the corner, and even asking his corner man between rounds what shots he needs to look out for..??
They actually just showed his walk from the ring and he's smiling and high fiving fans on the way back...WTH! he's in La La land if you ask me.
I just think if he got caught with a normal shot he gets back up and wins that fight.
I guess we'll know in about 24 hrs....

[edaddy]

Re: Boxing Off-Topic

It takes a special type of athlete to keep a hungry mindest while living the life of luxury..Thats why Lebron Jordan Kobe Brady etc are great they handle success and strive for greatness..not saying ruiz is going to lose because I dont know Joshias state of mind but every time I looked up.he was on tv yapping or coming from parties with trunk jewlery on..he really hit the lotto and for some they work their whole boxing life for the big payout of generational wealth once they get that keeping a title or achieving greatness is secondary..no.excuse to come om at 283 and I dont care about how many meals he ate before the weigh in..he is 6ft at best..but like I said Joshia is fragile in his mind..trust he is worried about losing..Spence is another one falling into the same success trap..like I said its a special athlete that can handle it..

[JayBee74]

Re: Boxing Off-Topic

Spence is another one falling into the same success trap..like I said its a special athlete that can handle it..

Spence should consider himself successful just by being alive.

Pretty sure Ruiz is 6' 2".