Boxing Off-Topic

[KG]

Re: Boxing Off-Topic

Def agree that stopping the fight was the smart thing to do but I thought Collazo was uncharacteristically honest for a boxer. I think a lot of folks would have went on and risked further damage.

Thurman rebounded and won the last round BUT that fight changed around the 3rd round when Collazo became the aggressor and began cutting the ring off and started to muck it some. I think he got a gauge for his power and knew that smothering Keith's punches would keep him away from the power shots. That shot to the chest was downright vicious.

[JayBee74]

Re: Boxing Off-Topic

I actually really like Atlas - he's one of my favorite boxing commentators. I just think he was wrong last night to essentially question Collazo's heart.

Yeah, didn't he reference Dundee's role in Clay-Liston I, as a reason for the corner to motivate Collazo to continue? Besides the obvious historical difference, and the fact that Dundee was maybe the only one on the planet who thought his fighter could beat Liston, Ali did not have a nasty cut and blood pouring into his eyes. Given how the fight was going, Dundee didn't have a choice.

Def agree that stopping the fight was the smart thing to do but I thought Collazo was uncharacteristically honest for a boxer. I think a lot of folks would have went on and risked further damage.

I don't know, 15 stitches? For the first time in my life, I required stitches when I cut my top upper index finger cleaning a carving knife. I couldn't stop the bleeding and had to be driven to the emergency room. All that for 3 stitches. Then factor in Keith Thurman is hitting you.

[KG]

Re: Boxing Off-Topic

Yeah, didn't he reference Dundee's role in Clay-Liston I, as a reason for the corner to motivate Collazo to continue? Besides the obvious historical difference, and the fact that Dundee was maybe the only one on the planet who thought his fighter could beat Liston, Ali did not have a nasty cut and blood pouring into his eyes. Given how the fight was going, Dundee didn't have a choice.



I don't know, 15 stitches? For the first time in my life, I required stitches when I cut my top upper index finger cleaning a carving knife. I couldn't stop the bleeding and had to be driven to the emergency room. All that for 3 stitches. Then factor in Keith Thurman is hitting you.

The cut was a bad one and I had no issue with what Collazo did or said. I'm just saying that a lot of fighters would have tried to continue, especially given his success in some of those recent rounds. The ref/doc would have probably stopped it shortly after though once it started bleeding into his eye.

[pietasterp]

Re: Boxing Off-Topic

Yeah, didn't he reference Dundee's role in Clay-Liston I, as a reason for the corner to motivate Collazo to continue? Besides the obvious historical difference, and the fact that Dundee was maybe the only one on the planet who thought his fighter could beat Liston, Ali did not have a nasty cut and blood pouring into his eyes. Given how the fight was going, Dundee didn't have a choice.

Also, and I almost hate to bring this up (and I don't do so flippantly), but I wonder what Ali would say if you asked him now if he thought Dundee's approach was a good one? I wonder if he wouldn't have traded a few losses to not be in the shape he is now?

[JayBee74]

Re: Boxing Off-Topic

Also, and I almost hate to bring this up (and I don't do so flippantly), but I wonder what Ali would say if you asked him now if he thought Dundee's approach was a good one? I wonder if he wouldn't have traded a few losses to not be in the shape he is now?

It's not an absolute that Ali's Parkinson Disease was caused by boxing, although it definitely could have been. I would fault Dundee for not throwing the towel in early in the Holmes fight, and particularly for participating in Ali's final bout against Trever Berbick. His actions in Liston-Clay I were spot on correct.

Most of the blows that Ali absorbed were in the second stage of his career, when he became more flat footed, slower, and less afraid of getting hit. Other than Holmes there was no single Ali fight that any trainer would have stopped at any time.

[pietasterp]

Re: Boxing Off-Topic

It's not an absolute that Ali's Parkinson Disease was caused by boxing, although it definitely could have been. I would fault Dundee for not throwing the towel in early in the Holmes fight, and particularly for participating in Ali's final bout against Trever Berbick. His actions in Liston-Clay I were spot on correct.

Most of the blows that Ali absorbed were in the second stage of his career, when he became more flat footed, slower, and less afraid of getting hit. Other than Holmes there was no single Ali fight that any trainer would have stopped at any time.

Ali-Frazier 3. In "Ghosts of Manila", the audacious (if not entirely implausible) claim is made that Frazier lost in part because Eddie Futch had a lower tolerance for allowing his fighter to take abuse than did Dundee. I don't disagree with that, but it's clearly speculation.

While it's technically true that we don't know if Ali's movement disorder is due to the accumulation of blows over his life, given what we know now about chronic traumatic encephalopathy, it seems by far the most likely cause.

[JayBee74]

Re: Boxing Off-Topic

While it's technically true that we don't know if Ali's movement disorder is due to the accumulation of blows over his life, given what we know now about chronic traumatic encephalopathy, it seems by far the most likely cause.

Yeah, most likely.

[pietasterp]

Re: Boxing Off-Topic

So it's come to this:

http://espn.go.com/boxing/story/_/id/13239145/shane-mosley-43-comes-retirement-fight-ricardo-mayorga

To my knowledge, the first bout initiated by a Twitter war of words. Heaven help us....

[JayBee74]

Re: Boxing Off-Topic

So it's come to this:

http://espn.go.com/boxing/story/_/id/13239145/shane-mosley-43-comes-retirement-fight-ricardo-mayorga

LOL, reminds me a little of what almost happened in 1999 between Foreman and Holmes. This one's not that bad but it's not that good.

On another note Carl Froch officially retires. I posted this three weeks ago after Andre Ward's dominating win:

Carl Froch, clearly in retirement mode, called Ward "unbeatable".

Not giving myself credit, it just struck me that Froch would be that complimentary of Ward, especially since they are in the same division.

[SPRINGS03]

Re: Boxing Off-Topic

LOL, reminds me a little of what almost happened in 1999 between Foreman and Holmes. This one's not that bad but it's not that good.

On another note Carl Froch officially retires. I posted this three weeks ago after Andre Ward's dominating win:



Not giving myself credit, it just struck me that Froch would be that complimentary of Ward, especially since they are in the same division.

Yep, you called it. Now i'm wondering tho, GGG was willing to go up to fight froch(which would of been a great fight) but he doesn't wanna fight ward and says he'll only fight him at a catchweight it seems. He's running out of options for opponents, he needs to either fight lara(one of the only guys around his class calling him out) or move up and fight ward.

Well there's also one other option i guess, apparently bernard hopkins is back to saying he wants to fight GGG. I'll give him credit, he has balls, but at this point, that's not the best idea for him. I don't know if he can pull another rabbit out of the hat this time.

[JayBee74]

Re: Boxing Off-Topic

He's running out of options for opponents, he needs to either fight lara(one of the only guys around his class calling him out) or move up and fight ward.

He still has Lemieux, Lee, and Quillin at 160. The argument against that bout is could it make PPV? Ward hasn't headlined a PPV bout. Neither has Golovkin.

Would GGG-Ward be bigger than GGG-Lemieux as this point?

[SPRINGS03]

Re: Boxing Off-Topic

He still has Lemieux, Lee, and Quillin at 160. The argument against that bout is could it make PPV? Ward hasn't headlined a PPV bout. Neither has Golovkin.

Would GGG-Ward be bigger than GGG-Lemieux as this point?

Quillin doesn't want to fight him, i think lee has a fight coming up. Lemieux could happen. And Ward vs GGG EASILY dwarves lemieux GGG, this is a lot of boxing fans dream match up, and one of the most anticipated match ups in boxing at the moment. That's probably the fight i wanna see the most, even more than canelo vs cotto, which i'm hyped for. I dunno if it could make ppv tho, as you said neither has headlined a ppv. But as far as an anticipated matchup, yeah, it's bigger than any other match GGG takes, unless he fights mayweather somehow.

[JayBee74]

Re: Boxing Off-Topic

And Ward vs GGG EASILY dwarves lemieux GGG, this is a lot of boxing fans dream match up, and one of the most anticipated match ups in boxing at the moment.

I agree as I see it, but I don't know what boxing fans think anymore. If Ward or GGG can't get a PPV fight alone, and maybe not together, how big is it among fans? Not what me or you think about the fight, but the average boxing fan?

Of the last 33 PPV fights on HBO or ShowTime 28 have been Mayweather Or Pacquai fights. The five other PPV fights have underperformed by comparison.

[pietasterp]

Re: Boxing Off-Topic

I agree as I see it, but I don't know what boxing fans think anymore. If Ward or GGG can't get a PPV fight alone, and maybe not together, how big is it among fans? Not what me or you think about the fight, but the average boxing fan?

Of the last 33 PPV fights on HBO or ShowTime 28 have been Mayweather Or Pacquai fights. The five other PPV fights have underperformed by comparison.

Agree on all counts. Which I actually think might be a good thing...to me, (valid) criticisms aside, I think the Premiere Boxing Champions series has done a lot more for boxing as a whole than any PPV ever could. Putting boxing on free/basic cable TV is key to revive interest in the sport. You put Ward-GGG on Fox and hype it correctly, and boxing draws bigger than a World Series game (other than maybe a game 7).*

*I have no data to back this up obviously...pure speculation on my part. I just have a feeling the appetite is still out there for top-level boxing, it's just that no one other than HBO and Showtime subscribers has had a chance to see that until recently.

[JayBee74]

Re: Boxing Off-Topic

You put Ward-GGG on Fox and hype it correctly, and boxing draws bigger than a World Series game (other than maybe a game 7).*

Don't know if even a Pac or Floyd fight could draw 12 million viewers.