Attention Indie Game Developers: The Sport Of Boxing Could Be Your Golden Ticket

[SHAKYR]

https://www.forbes.com/sites/brianmazique/2017/05/30/attention-indie-game-developers-the-sport-of-boxing-could-be-your-golden-ticket/amp/

Boxing/video game fans are as thirsty as an out-of-shape heavyweight in the final 30 seconds of a grueling 12-round fight. It doesn’t appear as though EA Sports, 2K, Sony or Microsoft have any plans of touching the sweet science any time soon, so independent developers are the only hope for virtual pugilists.
The last boxing game released was Fight Night Champion back in March 2011 for the last generation of consoles. FNC has a favorable 86 Metacritic score and many still speak fondly of the now six-year-old title. Despite the game’s cult following, EA seems more inclined to nurture its UFC series.

[sheredia]

Re: Attention Indie Game Developers: The Sport Of Boxing Could Be Your Golden Ticket

https://www.forbes.com/sites/brianma...en-ticket/amp/

Boxing/video game fans are as thirsty as an out-of-shape heavyweight in the final 30 seconds of a grueling 12-round fight. It doesn’t appear as though EA Sports, 2K, Sony or Microsoft have any plans of touching the sweet science any time soon, so independent developers are the only hope for virtual pugilists.
The last boxing game released was Fight Night Champion back in March 2011 for the last generation of consoles. FNC has a favorable 86 Metacritic score and many still speak fondly of the now six-year-old title. Despite the game’s cult following, EA seems more inclined to nurture its UFC series.

whoever tries it will have virtually no competition. was always wondering why EA sports big never tried a boxing title (not counting facebreaker which was too much like ready to rumble). NBA street, NFL street and FIFA street were good. def jam vendetta was great too. even 2K did one with MLB, the bigs and the bigs 2.

[pk500]

Re: Attention Indie Game Developers: The Sport Of Boxing Could Be Your Golden Ticket

The lack of a new boxing game is due to two demographic reasons.

One, the sport is perceived to be dying, which is a myth. But boxing has taken a back seat in the United States to the ephemeral new shiny penny of combat sports, MMA. Boxing remains the combat sports king in nearly every other part of the world, but game companies target the U.S. market before any other.

Two, boxing remains VERY strong and popular in the U.S. with the Latino and African-American demographic. But again, game publishers target the biggest market possible, which remains 18-34 white males. MMA mauls boxing in that demographic.

Finally, quick: Name an active boxer under age 35 who is known to general sports and pop culture fans in the United States, preferably an American fighter. Wait for it ... wait for it: You can't.

That's another reason why a boxing game won't sell. What cover athlete will market the game? UFC 2 featured Rousey and McGregor, who were/are marketing gold and almost household names in the United States among sports fans, especially 18-34 white males.

Sad, but true.

[SHAKYR]

Re: Attention Indie Game Developers: The Sport Of Boxing Could Be Your Golden Ticket

The lack of a new boxing game is due to two demographic reasons.

One, the sport is perceived to be dying, which is a myth. But boxing has taken a back seat in the United States to the ephemeral new shiny penny of combat sports, MMA. Boxing remains the combat sports king in nearly every other part of the world, but game companies target the U.S. market before any other.

Two, boxing remains VERY strong and popular in the U.S. with the Latino and African-American demographic. But again, game publishers target the biggest market possible, which remains 18-34 white males. MMA mauls boxing in that demographic.

Finally, quick: Name an active boxer under age 35 who is known to general sports and pop culture fans in the United States, preferably an American fighter. Wait for it ... wait for it: You can't.

That's another reason why a boxing game won't sell. What cover athlete will market the game? UFC 2 featured Rousey and McGregor, who were/are marketing gold and almost household names in the United States among sports fans, especially 18-34 white males.

Sad, but true.

Where are you getting your information from? I gathered data from various sports and gaming sites and it was an overwhelming response that they want a boxing videogame. The UFC/MMA games haven't outsold the worst Knockout Kings or Fight Night game. #Fact

[pk500]

Re: Attention Indie Game Developers: The Sport Of Boxing Could Be Your Golden Ticket

Where are you getting your information from? I gathered data from various sports and gaming sites and it was an overwhelming response that they want a boxing videogame. The UFC/MMA games haven't outsold the worst Knockout Kings or Fight Night game. #Fact

What "data" shows an overwhelming desire for a boxing game? Threads in forums are not hard data -- they are a case of the vocal minority.

Gaming publishers would act on such hard data if it existed.

Trust me, dude: I've been a boxing fan for at least 40 of my 52 years. I would LOVE to see a new boxing sim on the market.

But if large market desire existed and boxing was a hot sports property among 18-34 white males (the wheelhouse for the gaming demographic), then some developer/publisher would make a game.

EA stopped making boxing games for one reason -- they didn't make enough money. Demand equals money.

A smart boxing promoter with a long view would approach a gaming publisher and offer to share in development and marketing costs of a game as part of its long-term strategy. Imagine Top Rank Boxing, Golden Boy Boxing or Premier Boxing Champions as a game.

But Arum and Oscar never think outside of the traditional boxing promotional paradigm or much beyond their next card, and Haymon and the PBC have burned through most of their $450 million of seed money from the Waddell & Reed investment funding, with little return. The PBC will be dead by the end of 2018.

[sheredia]

Re: Attention Indie Game Developers: The Sport Of Boxing Could Be Your Golden Ticket

What "data" shows an overwhelming desire for a boxing game? Threads in forums are not hard data -- they are a case of the vocal minority.

Gaming publishers would act on such hard data if it existed.

Trust me, dude: I've been a boxing fan for at least 40 of my 52 years. I would LOVE to see a new boxing sim on the market.

But if large market desire existed and boxing was a hot sports property among 18-34 white males (the wheelhouse for the gaming demographic), then some developer/publisher would make a game.

EA stopped making boxing games for one reason -- they didn't make enough money. Demand equals money.

A smart boxing promoter with a long view would approach a gaming publisher and offer to share in development and marketing costs of a game as part of its long-term strategy. Imagine Top Rank Boxing, Golden Boy Boxing or Premier Boxing Champions as a game.

But Arum and Oscar never think outside of the traditional boxing promotional paradigm or much beyond their next card, and Haymon and the PBC have burned through most of their $450 million of seed money from the Waddell & Reed investment funding, with little return. The PBC will be dead by the end of 2018.

you make a good point, pk.....these promoters should look at video games to promote their brand and fighters as well as cater to a younger demographic, which they badly need. PBC can only do so much.

[pk500]

Re: Attention Indie Game Developers: The Sport Of Boxing Could Be Your Golden Ticket

you make a good point, pk.....these promoters should look at video games to promote their brand and fighters as well as cater to a younger demographic, which they badly need. PBC can only do so much.

PBC has done almost nothing but spend money and overpay fighters not to fight.

[aholbert32]

Re: Attention Indie Game Developers: The Sport Of Boxing Could Be Your Golden Ticket

What "data" shows an overwhelming desire for a boxing game? Threads in forums are not hard data -- they are a case of the vocal minority.

Gaming publishers would act on such hard data if it existed.

Trust me, dude: I've been a boxing fan for at least 40 of my 52 years. I would LOVE to see a new boxing sim on the market.

But if large market desire existed and boxing was a hot sports property among 18-34 white males (the wheelhouse for the gaming demographic), then some developer/publisher would make a game.

EA stopped making boxing games for one reason -- they didn't make enough money. Demand equals money.

A smart boxing promoter with a long view would approach a gaming publisher and offer to share in development and marketing costs of a game as part of its long-term strategy. Imagine Top Rank Boxing, Golden Boy Boxing or Premier Boxing Champions as a game.

But Arum and Oscar never think outside of the traditional boxing promotional paradigm or much beyond their next card, and Haymon and the PBC have burned through most of their $450 million of seed money from the Waddell & Reed investment funding, with little return. The PBC will be dead by the end of 2018.

This is the point ive been trying to make to SHAKYR for a while now. People look at the game sales and say "Fight Night sales dwarf UFC sales...so that means EA should create a new boxing game." Its not that simple.

The UFC license is easy. They get access to 500 fighters, the UFC trademarks, the UFC promotional partners, the UFCs uniforms...all for one price. They dont have to negotiate with Conor or Ronda or Jones individually. They come with the license.

Boxing is completely different. To get a solid roster you would have to negotiate with Arum, Haymon, Oscar and maybe smaller promoters like Duva, Sauerland and others. That takes alot of money and resources.

The fact is simple. EA likes profit. I'm not talking about revenue....I'm talking about profit. If Fight Night was more profitable, EA would announce it tomorrow.

[SHAKYR]

Re: Attention Indie Game Developers: The Sport Of Boxing Could Be Your Golden Ticket

This is the point ive been trying to make to SHAKYR for a while now. People look at the game sales and say "Fight Night sales dwarf UFC sales...so that means EA should create a new boxing game." Its not that simple.

The UFC license is easy. They get access to 500 fighters, the UFC trademarks, the UFC promotional partners, the UFCs uniforms...all for one price. They dont have to negotiate with Conor or Ronda or Jones individually. They come with the license.

Boxing is completely different. To get a solid roster you would have to negotiate with Arum, Haymon, Oscar and maybe smaller promoters like Duva, Sauerland and others. That takes alot of money and resources.

The fact is simple. EA likes profit. I'm not talking about revenue....I'm talking about profit. If Fight Night was more profitable, EA would announce it tomorrow.

Y'all keep talking like I'm an outsider and child. I have been communicating with the producers of the Fight Night games off and on. They never gave me an indication that Fight Night was to much for their budget. They actually wanted to do another Fight Night and never said but our budget can't afford it.
The producers actually thought after the last UFC game they made they were going to start on Fight Night but the CEOs may Dana White a promise they were going to make the UFC game as big of a seller as the Knockout Kings and Fight Night series.
I'm not just a fan talking just to talk. I have contacted alot of boxers in the past who wanted to be and were in a Fight Night game. I was an EA Senior Moderator on their EA Fight Night Forums, I was a decorated amateur who sparred contenders and champs. I have a Boxing Videogame Wishlist podcast. I have a very popular podcast I co host. I have interviewed boxers and trainers....oh and I'm a 47 year old trainer.

*EA UFC game as a whole hasn't sold more than the worst Knockout Kings or Fight Night game.
...and about data I game the EA producers access to my data with sign information. They always request data or information from me dealing with the Fight Night Community.

[JayBee74]

Re: Attention Indie Game Developers: The Sport Of Boxing Could Be Your Golden Ticket

Y'all keep talking like I'm an outsider and child.

I certainly know better. You have been up front and have had a lot of feedback with the FN producers for some time now.

I must be in the minority, but I would like somebody to make the game using fictitious boxers first and see what flows from that if there is a follow-up. The burden of the licensing of boxers, the cost involved, and the time spent creating a real fighter versus a generic one should be tabled for another day. Of course, the game would have to be great or near great to have a chance at success. None of the FN games fall into that category (IMO).

All that said, it's an uphill battle but I wish someone would give it a shot.

[SHAKYR]

Re: Attention Indie Game Developers: The Sport Of Boxing Could Be Your Golden Ticket

I certainly know better. You have been up front and have had a lot of feedback with the FN producers for some time now.

I must be in the minority, but I would like somebody to make the game using fictitious boxers first and see what flows from that if there is a follow-up. The burden of the licensing of boxers, the cost involved, and the time spent creating a real fighter versus a generic one should be tabled for another day. Of course, the game would have to be great or near great to have a chance at success. None of the FN games fall into that category (IMO).

All that said, it's an uphill battle but I wish someone would give it a shot.

I have been saying this too. Right about now fans will buy a game with fake boxers. Heck, they picked up Fight Night with a fake boxer on the cover! Most games sell to casual fans based on the cover and that said alot.

[aholbert32]

Re: Attention Indie Game Developers: The Sport Of Boxing Could Be Your Golden Ticket

Y'all keep talking like I'm an outsider and child. I have been communicating with the producers of the Fight Night games off and on. They never gave me an indication that Fight Night was to much for their budget. They actually wanted to do another Fight Night and never said but our budget can't afford it.
The producers actually thought after the last UFC game they made they were going to start on Fight Night but the CEOs may Dana White a promise they were going to make the UFC game as big of a seller as the Knockout Kings and Fight Night series.
I'm not just a fan talking just to talk. I have contacted alot of boxers in the past who wanted to be and were in a Fight Night game. I was an EA Senior Moderator on their EA Fight Night Forums, I was a decorated amateur who sparred contenders and champs. I have a Boxing Videogame Wishlist podcast. I have a very popular podcast I co host. I have interviewed boxers and trainers....oh and I'm a 47 year old trainer.

*EA UFC game as a whole hasn't sold more than the worst Knockout Kings or Fight Night game.
...and about data I game the EA producers access to my data with sign information. They always request data or information from me dealing with the Fight Night Community.

No one is talking to you like you are an "outsider or a child". My issue with your analysis is 1) its based on convos you've had with FNC devs from years ago and 2) its based on online polls which arent exactly a reliable indication of the demand for a game.

I've talked to those same devs over the last 2 years while working with them on UFC 2 and 3. Every time I've seen them I've talked to them about Fight Night. Every single time. There are members of the UFC Gamechangers team that were big Fight Night players and want the game back as bad as anyone.

The devs have said that they would love to work on Fight Night again but its not their call. I havent talked to a single dev that mentioned that Fight Night was next after UFC 1 or 2. In fact, theyve immediately jumped into production of the next UFC game after each one was released. That "Dana White" line is almost laughable because he really doesnt have any other options. No other game developer is dying to create a UFC game. If anything I doubt Dana actively cares about the game.

You are also arguing points NO ONE made. No one ever said that the Fight Night is "too much for their budget" or their "budget cant afford it". What I've been saying is that Fight Night wasnt likely as profitable as you think.

According to VG Chartz (which isnt the most reliable source for sales because it doesnt include digital sales but all that we have to go on). FNC sold around 2 million copies. UFC 2 sold around 1.6 million. Now 400k is a sizable difference. The problem with the direct comparison is that there were almost 100 million PS3s and 360s sold at the time FNC was released. To compare, there were 50-60 million X1s and PS4s sold at the time UFC 2 was released. So when UFC 2 was released there were 40-50 million less potential sales than when FNC was released.

Finally it goes back to profit. It likely costs less to produce a UFC game simply because of the licenses so that 400k difference in sales is less significant. Thats my point.

No one doubts your credentials as a boxing fan and participant. I'm just saying that some of the info you base your position on is shaky, incorrect and old.

[aholbert32]

Re: Attention Indie Game Developers: The Sport Of Boxing Could Be Your Golden Ticket

I certainly know better. You have been up front and have had a lot of feedback with the FN producers for some time now.

I must be in the minority, but I would like somebody to make the game using fictitious boxers first and see what flows from that if there is a follow-up. The burden of the licensing of boxers, the cost involved, and the time spent creating a real fighter versus a generic one should be tabled for another day. Of course, the game would have to be great or near great to have a chance at success. None of the FN games fall into that category (IMO).

All that said, it's an uphill battle but I wish someone would give it a shot.

You are in the minority and EA isnt the company thats likely going to take on a fictitious boxing game.

College Football is more popular than Boxing. EA's NCAA games outsold Fight Night by millions. EA no longer owns the NCAA license and for 4 years has had the option to do what they did back in the day with Bill Walsh College Football and use ficticious schools and names. While that game wouldnt sell as much as NCAA did, the hunger for a college football game amongst the sports community would result in decent sales.

EA wont release that kind of game.

They considered it 4 years ago and decided that they didnt want to move forward without the licenses. So I doubt EA would want to do a similar thing for a game that most people demand have real boxers. Names matter. EA came out with an MMA game that was probably better than the UFC game at the time and it sold horribly because it didnt have famous fighters.

With that said, I would love to see a boxing game of any kind released.

[JayBee74]

Re: Attention Indie Game Developers: The Sport Of Boxing Could Be Your Golden Ticket

With that said, I would love to see a boxing game of any kind released.

Definitely.

[pk500]

Re: Attention Indie Game Developers: The Sport Of Boxing Could Be Your Golden Ticket

SHAKYR:

Much respect for your amateur career and FN developer connections.

What reasons do your FN connections give for the death, or at least stalling, of the series?