EA Sports UFC 2 Impressions: Gamechangers Event 2

[Money99]

Re: EA Sports UFC 2 Impressions: Gamechangers Event 2

I'll just agree to disagree. I'm not saying this just as a fan, but for business reasons too. That's what I have my Bachelors in, and am interested in the business side of the industry as well.

This is the declining trend of UFC games for first month sales:
- UFC 2009 sold over 1 million its first month
- UFC 2010 plummeted to 414K copies
- UFC 3 managed just 340K
- EA Sports UFC combined for only 278K copies, then was price dropped heavily

Continuing on this path to nowhere isn't going to help anything. I'm willing to bet EA Sports UFC 2 continues this trend. And this time at the end of the year EA will be talking about putting the franchise on hiatus, just like they've done with the NBA and golf in the past when they didn't seem to get it.

The same points of opposition are the same exact things that have been done in this franchise since inception, and it's only managed to drag sales down even more each time.

I find it strange that there's so much opposition here for a deeper, more meaningful experience in a game like this. The entire argument is it would be bad business to do so, when it's been clearly shown that continuing on this path is "bad business."

Couldn't agree more.
Like you pointed out earlier, most sports games follow the same formula every single year.
Then when a new console comes out, they get to start from scratch and slowly add extra's to the point where by end of the life-cycle, it's back to where it was on the last-gen system.

Combat sports in particular can give so much more than what we get in team sports.
There are so many varying angles that can be explored from promoters, injuries, managing diet, managing a stable of fighters to weekly highlight shows or even personal plots like getting married, being a dink in public, etc.
Imagine a game that marries the better points of the SIMS, GTA and UFC?

Following the same blueprint will only give us the same things over and over.
I'd love for someone to add a completely different flavour to the combat sports genre.

[aholbert32]

Re: EA Sports UFC 2 Impressions: Gamechangers Event 2

@aholbert When you played the game (something like 50 fights, right?), did you find there was more variation in fighter stances? For example, seeing Conor fighting with his hands down and the wide stance would be pretty sick.

This is something I'm proud of. One of the gamechangers and I were able to work with the devs and suggest new fighting stances and idles (using stances from EA MMA, UFC 1 and Fight Night Champion) for all 250 fighters. They implemented a bunch of them (all will be implemented by release) and it made a difference to me in how the game looked.

Its a small thing but it helps each fighter feel different.

[OpenSource]

Re: EA Sports UFC 2 Impressions: Gamechangers Event 2

Its about getting people interested in the sport. Doing the same thing over and over will not do it. Playing it safe will not do it. When Apple comes out with a new product it is not because they polled people for what they wanted. They have a vision and they sell you on it because they thinks its cool. Your logic is why movies, video games and other mass media have declined. People are looking at test audiences to direct what is made.

If you look at things that were truly innovative and great. They came about when people were like OMG that will suck. Star Wars, The Matrix, Titanic, Avatar, Guitar Hero, Assassin's Creed, Knights of the Old Republic, Tomb Raider, The UFC itself. I could keep going. when those things were first talked about people thought they were a bad joke and a bad idea that was not profitable. They ended up being ground breaking in their own right. There was no test marketing. Someone had a great idea and went with it.

Totally agree with this and your previous post. And there's some kind of irony in this discussion of casual fans being alienated that the featured preorder bonuses revealed today are two MMA pioneers that no casual fan would have a clue about in El Guapo and Saku.

The thing is I've never really seen a deeper experience game backfire because the gameplay was too 'enriched.' Maybe too obscure with customization, yeah. The Show could learn from having a little less on ultra slider customization, and that's not what I'm asking for here. I doubt many would find a weight cutting slider training or working on customizing the posture of your fighter in the guard fun, but I'm not asking that. I'm asking for a deeper experience tied into both the history, like you suggested, with the learning of logic and fundamentals of something like BJJ into the single player experience. To say that would alienate casual fans rather than a cut and paste typical gauntlet mode is ridiculous to me.

[aholbert32]

Re: EA Sports UFC 2 Impressions: Gamechangers Event 2

Totally agree with this and your previous post. And there's some kind of irony in this discussion of casual fans being alienated that the featured preorder bonuses revealed today are two MMA pioneers that no casual fan would have a clue about in El Guapo and Saku.

The thing is I've never really seen a deeper experience game backfire because the gameplay was too 'enriched.' Maybe too obscure with customization, yeah. The Show could learn from having a little less on ultra slider customization, and that's not what I'm asking for here. I doubt many would find a weight cutting slider training or working on customizing the posture of your fighter in the guard fun, but I'm not asking that. I'm asking for a deeper experience tied into both the history, like you suggested, with the learning of logic and fundamentals of something like BJJ into the single player experience. To say that would alienate casual fans rather than a cut and paste typical gauntlet mode is ridiculous to me.

Thats ironic because....you dont know who the third preorder fighter is.

Again, no one is arguing against a deeper experience. For example, I think things like sliders, a universe mode and deeper AI should be the most important things for UFC 2 and UFC 3. I just dont think a UFC History training mode is a way to go about it. Especially given that past games have done this mode and they werent exactly popular.

[godylla]

Re: EA Sports UFC 2 Impressions: Gamechangers Event 2

I, personally, have never been a big fan of the "recreating moments in history" game modes in any sports games. The reason those moments were so great, is because they are extremely difficult, or sometimes impossible, to recreate. Especially when the game version is often accompanied by the real life video of the event like in past versions of UFC games.

I would much rather them implement the moments as saying something along the lines of: "This is the front kick that Anderson Silva used to knockout out Vitor Belfort. Learn this kick to apply it to your fighter."

I think that would be a decent way to integrate moves and history into the game to allow for new fans to learn some history as well. Just my $0.02 though.

[OpenSource]

Re: EA Sports UFC 2 Impressions: Gamechangers Event 2

Thats ironic because....you dont know who the third preorder fighter is.

Again, no one is arguing against a deeper experience. For example, I think things like sliders, a universe mode and deeper AI should be the most important things for UFC 2 and UFC 3. I just dont think a UFC History training mode is a way to go about it. Especially given that past games have done this mode and they werent exactly popular.

I honestly don't care if the third fighter is some super casual known current/former fake fighter with a little bit of a martial arts background like Chuck Norris, Steven Seagal, Bruce Lee, Brock Lesnar, or whoever. The fact that Bas and Sakuraba are even in the game as fighters when the base you say they're marketing to won't know who they are is ironic.

Historical modes are fine for the fan, I'm speaking more in terms of the gameplay. Something like this Gracie Intro to BJJ :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZM_8-c1EqOY

In the single player mode, recreated in the game engine, would be ideal.

Learn something about BJJ and use the knowledge as a real strategy in the gameplay rather than button mashing and joystick wiggling would be ideal, and I don't think it would do anything to an already declining sales base.

[aholbert32]

Re: EA Sports UFC 2 Impressions: Gamechangers Event 2

I honestly don't care if the third fighter is some super casual known current/former fake fighter with a little bit of a martial arts background like Chuck Norris, Steven Seagal, Bruce Lee, Brock Lesnar, or whoever. The fact that Bas and Sakuraba are even in the game as fighters when the base you say they're marketing to won't know who they are is ironic.

Historical modes are fine for the fan, I'm speaking more in terms of the gameplay. Something like this Gracie Intro to BJJ :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZM_8-c1EqOY

In the single player mode, recreated in the game engine, would be ideal.

Learn something about BJJ and use the knowledge as a real strategy in the gameplay rather than button mashing and joystick wiggling would be ideal, and I don't think it would do anything to an already declining sales base.

I have an issue with you ignoring things that I say because they dont fit your argument. Where did I say that they are ONLY marketing to casual fans?

In fact in one of my responses to you, I said:

That the increased roster is actually a feature for the hardcore since most casual fans dont know who half the roster is.

The addition of Event Mode is a feature solely marketed to hardcore fans.

If you want to make a counter-point, counter something I've actually said.

Your point has been that EA should eliminate focusing on modes for casual fans (like KO mode) and implement something like a interactive Gracie Breakdown. My point is that EA's consumer data shows that most fans (casual and hardcore) dont want to spend more time training.

I'll ask this again (for the third time) since no one here wants to answer it:

WHEN HAS A TRAINING MODE EVER LEAD TO INCREASED SALES IN A SPORTS GAME?

Give me one or two. I havent seen a single game where the addition of a training mode significantly increased sales. Now i'm not saying its a bad idea on its face. I think it would work if implemented within another mode like Career mode.

But is that mode going to be what causes people to buy the game?

Since declining sales are the only reason (while ignoring the real reasons for those sales) you have for your theory.....what happens if UFC 2 sells 400k in the first month? That would be almost double the number UFC1 did.

Given the way the game is shaping up, the good press/reviews that will likely come, the install base is significantly larger and the interest that will come when the mystery fighter is announced...400k isnt unreasonable.

Should EA scrap its approach then? Should they go strictly hardcore even though the sales are growing?

[japowery]

Re: EA Sports UFC 2 Impressions: Gamechangers Event 2

@aholbert You don't have to go in to any details, but was the striking you saw very similar to that of 1 or more complex (perhaps deriving some ideas from this post: http://forum.ea.com/eaforum/posts/list/10344600.page)? Thanks.

[MaddogUFC]

Re: EA Sports UFC 2 Impressions: Gamechangers Event 2

Star Wars had a test audience.
The Matrix had a test audience.
Titanic had a test audience.
Avatar had a test audience.

All 4 movies made changes to the final product based on audience feedback. All were better movies because of it.

If someone is buying a UFC video game, they are likely already "interested in the sport." They are interested in the current sport and want to play current fighters.

For example, I'm a casual fan of English Soccer. I watch matches on Saturday when I get the chance to and I play the Premier League on Fifa 16. I dont play FIFA to learn about the sport. I dont play FIFA to learn about the history of English Soccer. I'm interested in the current league. I could care less about games played 10 or 20 years ago.

If I wanted to learn about the history of the Premier league, I would read about it or watch videos of old games. So if you made me go through a training mode with historical games or scenarios, I would likely skip it.

Also, your idea isnt that innovative. UFC 3 had a historical fights mode and no one played it. The only difference here is that mode is tied to a training mode that teaches people how to play the game.

Again, what makes you think that a training mode would be the thing that sells a game to casual fans? The hardcore fans are going to buy the game because they always do. When has a training mode ever been a selling point in a sports video game?

good point....Star wars, titanic and matrix test audience all said they sucked and would lose money. you are missing the point about being visionary. its sad to me

the differenceof tying it to training is what will make it work. you are coming off as a real *****.

You seem to knock any visionary idea. i hope the dev team isn't like that


is hate a bad word on here

[aholbert32]

Re: EA Sports UFC 2 Impressions: Gamechangers Event 2

good point....Star wars, titanic and matrix test audience all said they sucked and would lose money. you are missing the point about being visionary. its sad to me

the differenceof tying it to training is what will make it work. you are coming off as a real *****.

You seem to knock any visionary idea. i hope the dev team isn't like that


is hate a bad word on here

Not really. I love a ton of visionary ideas. Your ideas just suck.

[redsox4evur]

Re: EA Sports UFC 2 Impressions: Gamechangers Event 2

Yea I would hate to HAVE to complete some training/history mode just to play the regular game. And I am as casual as they come. I probably won't know half the guys on the roster, I have only watched 1 PPV before and that was last month's UFC 194. And I could honestly give a rat's *** about the history of the sport. I just get the game to have fun and because I figured I would give it a shot. Traded it in because I didn't really play it all that much.

[MaddogUFC]

Re: EA Sports UFC 2 Impressions: Gamechangers Event 2

Not really. I love a ton of visionary ideas. Your ideas just suck.

Reallly? You are the guy who they elected as a game changer? You are clearly just a a *****? What cool idea do you have? As long as I have been on here I have only seen you shoot down ideas and play the role of company man. Looking back at your previous posts this is your clear MO. I guess it is easier to shoot ideas down then to come up with something. Good luck with that.

[aholbert32]

Re: EA Sports UFC 2 Impressions: Gamechangers Event 2

Reallly? You are the guy who they elected as a game changer? You are clearly just a a *****? What cool idea do you have? As long as I have been on here I have only seen you shoot down ideas and play the role of company man. Looking back at your previous posts this is your clear MO. I guess it is easier to shoot ideas down then to come up with something. Good luck with that.

They chose me as a GameChanger because I've been on this board helping with the game. You've been here a week so you dont know any of this. I dont have to justify my role on this site or as a gamechanger to you. The work I've done stands on its own.

Look, your idea is a ****ty idea. It just is. I'm not being a *****. Its been done before. UFC 3 did a version of it and no one played it. Thats why you dont see a big demand for people to bring back that mode. Universe mode is a new (for an MMA game) and good idea. See....I like good ideas. Your idea isnt good.

Instead of actually debating that point (or the other points I made) you choose to call me a *****. Why? Because you cant argue why your idea is a good idea.

[redsox4evur]

Re: EA Sports UFC 2 Impressions: Gamechangers Event 2

They chose me as a GameChanger because I've been on this board helping with the game. You've been here a week so you dont know any of this. I dont have to justify my role on this site or as a gamechanger to you. The work I've done stands on its own.

Look, your idea is a ****ty idea. It just is. I'm not being a *****. Its been done before. UFC 3 did a version of it and no one played it. Thats why you dont see a big demand for people to bring back that mode. Universe mode is a new (for an MMA game) and good idea. See....I like good ideas. Your idea isnt good.

Instead of actually debating that point (or the other points I made) you choose to call me a *****. Why? Because you cant argue why your idea is a good idea.

Yea I'm with aholbert on this one. I would go no where a legends/MMA history type mode. And the people at EA probably have numbers from that THQ that show that Pride mode was barely played. Now a universe mode I would definitely play even if it was barebones. Meaning just rankings and PPVs with no rivalries, fight build ups, weigh-ins, etc.

[aholbert32]

Re: EA Sports UFC 2 Impressions: Gamechangers Event 2

Yea I'm with aholbert on this one. I would go no where a legends/MMA history type mode. And the people at EA probably have numbers from that THQ that show that Pride mode was barely played. Now a universe mode I would definitely play even if it was barebones. Meaning just rankings and PPVs with no rivalries, fight build ups, weigh-ins, etc.

One Thing: Pride mode was popular. Hardcore MMA fans loved it.

What alot of people dont remember is UFC3 also had a greatest fight mode that no one played. Its similar to MaddogUFC's idea.