Constantly swaying should tax stamina

[Dave_S]

You can lean back and hold that position a long time, without any stamina tax. That's not how it works in the real world. Avoiding head strikes is already op as all get, unless you play into the hit stun game, which I refuse to do.

Just my .02

[Fearhead24]

Re: Constantly swaying should tax stamina

Well, as long as you're leaning back at least your stamina doesn't really refill.

[Dave_S]

Re: Constantly swaying should tax stamina

Didn't notice that, every time I did that I had full stamina.

[SUGATA]

Re: Constantly swaying should tax stamina

The only thing sway needs is give it the ability to strike from it w/o returning to neutral, fix bug w dashes after quick sway input, decrease dead zone.

Sway freezes yr stamina recovery, plus back sway has dmg bonus on body strikes landed. It is ok.

[Ksearyback]

Re: Constantly swaying should tax stamina

You can lean back and hold that position a long time, without any stamina tax. That's not how it works in the real world.
Just my .02

What do you mean this isn't how it works in the real world? Someone standing still and leaning back loses stamina in the real world?

I don't disagree with you point about improving defensive mechanics, but my argument is and always will be for developers to find ways that are realistic when coming up with new alternatives to tweaks. I don't think comments about a lean while standing being tiring, relative to all other movements in a fight, makes much sense.

Less easy arcade answers to problems that don't exist, and more input based on real life physics will end up being beneficial if any Devs pay attention to us, and ultimately rewarding to us in a more fulfilling game

[scyth223]

Re: Constantly swaying should tax stamina

Sways are fine. If your complaining about sways, you're probably not too good at them.

Please don't touch the sways. Sways are great for defensive tatics.

[Dave_S]

Re: Constantly swaying should tax stamina

What do you mean this isn't how it works in the real world? Someone standing still and leaning back loses stamina in the real world?

I don't disagree with you point about improving defensive mechanics, but my argument is and always will be for developers to find ways that are realistic when coming up with new alternatives to tweaks. I don't think comments about a lean while standing being tiring, relative to all other movements in a fight, makes much sense.

Less easy arcade answers to problems that don't exist, and more input based on real life physics will end up being beneficial if any Devs pay attention to us, and ultimately rewarding to us in a more fulfilling game

Leaving far back takes a lot more energy than standing up straight. It's not a natural position and you use core a lot.

I don't have a problem with sways, it just seemed funky to me that i could hold it straight backwards and avoid multiple head strikes or sway around like a goofball and not spend stamina.

[Dave_S]

Re: Constantly swaying should tax stamina

Also I get where you guys are coming from, but it should cost stamina. It certainly does in real life. Currently stamina is an afterthought in this game.

I've come to the conclusion people that talk about how important stamina is in this game must have not played the first game.

My complaining about sways has zero to do ability to do them. They aren't hard.

[Ksearyback]

Re: Constantly swaying should tax stamina

Leaving far back takes a lot more energy than standing up straight. It's not a natural position and you use core a lot.

I don't have a problem with sways, it just seemed funky to me that i could hold it straight backwards and avoid multiple head strikes or sway around like a goofball and not spend stamina.

So, yes, if you take this extremely literally - you are correct; it is harder to lean back than to stand straight.

My point is, and this goes for many of the various stamina based debates we having going on this forum, is to figure out more creative answers in an effort to balance risk/reward.

So in the case of swaying, maybe there is a little drain if you are swaying all over the place, or when you hold sway for more than 2 seconds. Otherwise, I'd prefer if the risk for swaying to be a perfectly timed counter-punch, at the right range, had increased accuracy. This would force those who sway to do so with timing and skill or risk taking a right cross to the chin (or a more likely chance you get stunned, dropped, or straight knocked out). Perhaps, because you are leaning back, the damage of a shot to the ribs/liver is also more pronounced as you are no longer able to defend with your elbows.

So that is where i come from with all of these complaints. I don't want stamina drain to be the answer for a lot of people's concerns with spammable moves. Let's be creative and add counters to enhance the quality of place and separate those who understand fighting from those who seek cheap ways to repeat spam bs in a video game.

[ZHunter1990]

Re: Constantly swaying should tax stamina

So, yes, if you take this extremely literally - you are correct; it is harder to lean back than to stand straight.

My point is, and this goes for many of the various stamina based debates we having going on this forum, is to figure out more creative answers in an effort to balance risk/reward.

So in the case of swaying, maybe there is a little drain if you are swaying all over the place, or when you hold sway for more than 2 seconds. Otherwise, I'd prefer if the risk for swaying to be a perfectly timed counter-punch, at the right range, had increased accuracy. This would force those who sway to do so with timing and skill or risk taking a right cross to the chin (or a more likely chance you get stunned, dropped, or straight knocked out). Perhaps, because you are leaning back, the damage of a shot to the ribs/liver is also more pronounced as you are no longer able to defend with your elbows.

So that is where i come from with all of these complaints. I don't want stamina drain to be the answer for a lot of people's concerns with spammable moves. Let's be creative and add counters to enhance the quality of place and separate those who understand fighting from those who seek cheap ways to repeat spam bs in a video game.

This 100%

There was actually a stamina drain for using head movement when I played at the first GC event in Oct 2015. Head movement was near useless because counters dealt less damage due to the stamina drain from moving your head before countering.

I do think there needs to be some sort of penalty for leaning back but stamina isnt the answer.

Maybe if you get hit with a straight or a teep while leaning back you fall down?

[Ksearyback]

Re: Constantly swaying should tax stamina

This 100%
I do think there needs to be some sort of penalty for leaning back but stamina isnt the answer.

Maybe if you get hit with a straight or a teep while leaning back you fall down?

Yeah, logical reactions based on true fight science. When you're leaning back entirely, I am fine with the defensive efficacy in making your opponent miss. However, there is a trade off: 1.) you have decided to leave the body open for more effective attack, and 2.) As you let go of lean and move back to neutral stance the forward momentum leaves you open to a perfectly timed strike which will result in more damage (a mini version of running into a punch). And if the punch is well timed, and at the right distance for the selected strike -- you just might be going to sleep.

I like the idea of opening up counters like this. You want to sway back, well I'm going to time you on the way back... However, I would like this countering system to be balanced too -- the damage caused by the counter should depend on distance and strike selection. The difference in damage and a kayo (or knockdown) should not be random. Risk/reward along with balance, all wrapped in realism and logic. That's what I'm looking for.

[cernac]

Re: Constantly swaying should tax stamina

I am fine with sway... easy to hit body with punches, knees and kicks.

In a previous version, big counter punches were built into the sway mechanic. Sway back and forward were uppercuts (I think), sway left and right were hooks. You didn't have to go back to neutral.

I have played a few Diaz brothers matches, and it is really hard to get a counter off the sway because they are throwing so many punches so fast.

[fitch is my homeboy]

Re: Constantly swaying should tax stamina

You can lean back and hold that position a long time, without any stamina tax. That's not how it works in the real world.

Maybe if you're obese you can't because you'd tip over. It's really not that hard tho.

[Haz____]

Re: Constantly swaying should tax stamina

Maybe if you're obese you can't because you'd tip over. It's really not that hard tho.

Do some shadow boxing. Incorporate some slips, dips, sways, rolls, etc. Then tell me you're not tired.

[Dave_S]

Re: Constantly swaying should tax stamina

Do some shadow boxing. Incorporate some slips, dips, sways, rolls, etc. Then tell me you're not tired.

That's what I was thinking. I think it takes a decent amount of energy, even if you aren't swaying. If you are standing straight and then lean far back it takes energy from core to hold yourself there. If I lean far back while standing up it's kind of sad how quick I get exhausted. I'm no pro fighter, but just the fact that it exhausts me suggests that it takes energy to do those moves.