Watch This: 13 (FAILED) Submission Attempts in ONE ROUND -- NO STAMINA DRAIN??

[Morgan Monkman]

Re: Watch This: 13 (FAILED) Submission Attempts in ONE ROUND -- NO STAMINA DRAIN??

Like I said, it's because the impact of stamina varies across different kinds of submissions.

The idea is that technical moves that don't require strength and stamina aren't as impacted by stamina as techniques that are more strength based. The motivation was to differentiate technical BJJ fighters from wrestlers, and to add more depth to the meta.

For example, from SUB guard there are 4 possible submissions, and they have different properties.

The arm bar is equally sensitive to stamina and GA differences.

The omoplata and triangle are heavily weighted towards GA, because they are more technical moves.

The guillotine and kimura are heavily weighted towards stamina, because they are more brute force techniques that require less finesse and more strength.

What this means, is if you are sitting on a stamina advantage, you will get a quicker transition going for a guillotine or kimura.

If you are sitting on a GA advantage, you'll get a quicker transition going for the omoplata or triangle.

If you have a little bit of both, you're going to have the most success with the arm bar.

If you have a MASSIVE GA or stamina advantage, you'll get 90% of the speed up no matter which one you choose.

All this plays into the mind games of which transition to pick, and which way to deny when both players know what's up.

I get what your saying and it sounds good on paper, but it doesn't seem to work out online.

I have only been submitted like 8 times in almost 1000 fights, and that was back at release. I can't remember the last time someone subbed me.

It's just to easy to escape, with or without stamina.

I think GA needs to be generated somehow else or scrap it entirely, definitely not through punches.

Just to hammer home my point, i have only learned to block 1 submission and that's the side control triangle as it only has 3 gates

I didn't bother learning the others because it's so easy to escape when attempted.
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[Morgan Monkman]

Re: Watch This: 13 (FAILED) Submission Attempts in ONE ROUND -- NO STAMINA DRAIN??

I'd rather see GA only gained via submission and transition denies and then it only lasts for a few seconds and does not stack.

That way if someone is good at holding you someplace it's because of their fast reaction time to your transition and not a artificial GA number they are stacking up on you via unblockable punches.

[Haz____]

Re: Watch This: 13 (FAILED) Submission Attempts in ONE ROUND -- NO STAMINA DRAIN??

I agree with everything Monk is saying.

GA drives me nuts.

[Fearhead24]

Re: Watch This: 13 (FAILED) Submission Attempts in ONE ROUND -- NO STAMINA DRAIN??

I think the devs are pretty much the only ones that like their broken mechanics.. But then again, they probably barely play this game anyway.
@GPD: Sugata made enough threads that summed up the mechanics and stuff but it doesn't matter unless we don't get decent latency and proper matchmaking. Instead of GA crap you guys should've made sure that the game is lag free to play in first place. But no, instead we get GA and leg kick hit stuns lol.
@Boiler: Fought a similar guy like you these days he wasn't as predictable in terms of which submission he uses so it was way harder to deny, but all he did was clinch, sub and td. The input delay is horrible so I couldn't block anything. After like 15 sub attempts he had I tapped him out with my second try (flying armbar). That was satisfying as hell.

[trainbyday1]

Re: Watch This: 13 (FAILED) Submission Attempts in ONE ROUND -- NO STAMINA DRAIN??

Like I said, it's because the impact of stamina varies across different kinds of submissions.

The idea is that technical moves that don't require strength and stamina aren't as impacted by stamina as techniques that are more strength based. The motivation was to differentiate technical BJJ fighters from wrestlers, and to add more depth to the meta.

For example, from SUB guard there are 4 possible submissions, and they have different properties.

The arm bar is equally sensitive to stamina and GA differences.

The omoplata and triangle are heavily weighted towards GA, because they are more technical moves.

The guillotine and kimura are heavily weighted towards stamina, because they are more brute force techniques that require less finesse and more strength.

What this means, is if you are sitting on a stamina advantage, you will get a quicker transition going for a guillotine or kimura.

If you are sitting on a GA advantage, you'll get a quicker transition going for the omoplata or triangle.

If you have a little bit of both, you're going to have the most success with the arm bar.

If you have a MASSIVE GA or stamina advantage, you'll get 90% of the speed up no matter which one you choose.

All this plays into the mind games of which transition to pick, and which way to deny when both players know what's up.

I think Morgan is also taking about ones ability to succeed or escape a submission after it has already been locked in where as Devs are talking about the ability to initially lock the submission in. According to a lot of people it is just as easy to submit someone when you have half or low stamina as it is when you have full stamina and the same applies to escapes.

I have found submissions in EA UFC 2 much harder and your ability to submit someone is only mildly affected but how much stamina you or they have. As in the other night I had Rory with very low stamina and I was using Maia. His gates were flying even though his stamina was nearly empty. I think this is what most people have an issue with. If you have full stamina and the other guy has nearly low stamina his gates should be moving very slow which is not currently the case.

Regarding the video in real life if you locked on 13 submission in one round your legs would be shot to hell. I would like to see some type of large short term stamina penalty for submission spammers in the spam way that your stamina goes to zero if you throw the same spinning attack twice in a row. Do you guys like that idea?

[GameplayDevUFC]

Re: Watch This: 13 (FAILED) Submission Attempts in ONE ROUND -- NO STAMINA DRAIN??

I think Morgan is also taking about ones ability to succeed or escape a submission after it has already been locked in where as Devs are talking about the ability to initially lock the submission in. According to a lot of people it is just as easy to submit someone when you have half or low stamina as it is when you have full stamina and the same applies to escapes.

I have found submissions in EA UFC 2 much harder and your ability to submit someone is only mildly affected but how much stamina you or they have. As in the other night I had Rory with very low stamina and I was using Maia. His gates were flying even though his stamina was nearly empty. I think this is what most people have an issue with. If you have full stamina and the other guy has nearly low stamina his gates should be moving very slow which is not currently the case.

Regarding the video in real life if you locked on 13 submission in one round your legs would be shot to hell. I would like to see some type of large short term stamina penalty for submission spammers in the spam way that your stamina goes to zero if you throw the same spinning attack twice in a row. Do you guys like that idea?

If that's the case I will have to ask around. My responsibilities ended as soon as you enter the mini game and I'm not familiar with what changes went into the mini game itself.

I can pass the feedback on though.

I also think a stamina hit after having someone escape your submission would help with the spam.

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[chapmandachamp]

Re: Watch This: 13 (FAILED) Submission Attempts in ONE ROUND -- NO STAMINA DRAIN??

Maybe it should drain like an arm trap so the other person can reverse. Spam is lame. We need some kind of change for the next year of the game please

[trainbyday1]

Re: Watch This: 13 (FAILED) Submission Attempts in ONE ROUND -- NO STAMINA DRAIN??

If that's the case I will have to ask around. My responsibilities ended as soon as you enter the mini game and I'm not familiar with what changes went into the mini game itself.

I can pass the feedback on though.

I also think a stamina hit after having someone escape your submission would help with the spam.

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I personally would not be in favor of a stamina hit after the person escapes because submissions are already hard to finish as it as and I wouldn't like to be completely discouraged or punished for using submissions at all. I would much rather the penalty only exist when you lock in multiple submission in a row with little or not break in between and I think that is what most people are complaining about. There is enough of a stamina penalty for locking on submissions without adding a bigger one for when people escape. That would make ever using a submission very untenable. Locking on multiple submissions in a row is the major problem and people who use them sparingly shouldn't be hit with an ever bigger stamina tax.

[cingular]

Re: Watch This: 13 (FAILED) Submission Attempts in ONE ROUND -- NO STAMINA DRAIN??

If that's the case I will have to ask around. My responsibilities ended as soon as you enter the mini game and I'm not familiar with what changes went into the mini game itself.

I can pass the feedback on though.

I also think a stamina hit after having someone escape your submission would help with the spam.

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Okay this makes some sense, as to why you hadn't noticed it.

Stamina has no effect on the gate speed during the mini-game. This has been the case since launch.

[GameplayDevUFC]

Re: Watch This: 13 (FAILED) Submission Attempts in ONE ROUND -- NO STAMINA DRAIN??

Okay this makes some sense, as to why you hadn't noticed it.

Stamina has no effect on the gate speed during the mini-game. This has been the case since launch.

I find that very hard to believe, but I will have our qa guys double check.

But I would be shocked if you're right.

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[Bigg Cee]

Re: Watch This: 13 (FAILED) Submission Attempts in ONE ROUND -- NO STAMINA DRAIN??

Enough with nerfing this game so much GPD! Ughhhhhh...

Please leave subs alone there fine the way they are.

[tissues250]

Re: Watch This: 13 (FAILED) Submission Attempts in ONE ROUND -- NO STAMINA DRAIN??

Enough with nerfing this game so much GPD! Ughhhhhh...

Please leave subs alone there fine the way they are.

Bigg Cee, This is my first disagreed with you. I really hate the submission spam. I knew about that since released the game. I have made a thread from the original forum but they didn't fix it.

[Bigg Cee]

Re: Watch This: 13 (FAILED) Submission Attempts in ONE ROUND -- NO STAMINA DRAIN??

Bigg Cee, This is my first disagreed with you. I really hate the submission spam. I knew about that since released the game. I have made a thread from the original forum but they didn't fix it.

I hardly run into submission spam, and it is so easy to deny subs also. To me there fine. The only thing that needs a nerf on the ground is the Rubber guard but other then that subs are fine and great to use.

Please don't nerf the subs or triangle choke from guard.

[WhoDatNinja]

Re: Watch This: 13 (FAILED) Submission Attempts in ONE ROUND -- NO STAMINA DRAIN??

Subs shouldnt count more to the judges than knockdowns though, which they currently seem to.

[Fearhead24]

Re: Watch This: 13 (FAILED) Submission Attempts in ONE ROUND -- NO STAMINA DRAIN??

I find that very hard to believe, but I will have our qa guys double check.

But I would be shocked if you're right.

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What I'm really shocked about is that you devs obviously didn't bother spending 10 hours into the online mode of your own game to find this problem by yourself. It's like this since the very beginning. Stamina has no scheme on how it effects the filling speed of the gates in submission (sub def hasn't either)