Watch This: 13 (FAILED) Submission Attempts in ONE ROUND -- NO STAMINA DRAIN??

[fishingtime]

Re: Watch This: 13 (FAILED) Submission Attempts in ONE ROUND -- NO STAMINA DRAIN??

I hardly run into submission spam, and it is so easy to deny subs also. To me there fine. The only thing that needs a nerf on the ground is the Rubber guard but other then that subs are fine and great to use.

Please don't nerf the subs or triangle choke from guard.

If they looked into the stamina and subs, they would actually be easier if they tweaked them. Stamina plays almost no role. You should have less of a chance if you have no stamina, and more with full. Right now it feels like it is actually backwards. I think I have actually been submitted more by guys with less stamina than me. I also have few sub losses as opposed to last game.

The real problem would lie in UT where the stats are already skewed. It might actually become too easy there.

[Supreme_Bananas]

Re: Watch This: 13 (FAILED) Submission Attempts in ONE ROUND -- NO STAMINA DRAIN??

I find that very hard to believe, but I will have our qa guys double check.

But I would be shocked if you're right.

Sent from my LT30a using Tapatalk

To be fair, stamina does have an effect, gates a no stamina DO move slower ,but it is extremely minor, the effect is not nearly pronounced enough

[fishingtime]

Re: Watch This: 13 (FAILED) Submission Attempts in ONE ROUND -- NO STAMINA DRAIN??

To be fair, stamina does have an effect, gates a no stamina DO move slower ,but it is extremely minor, the effect is not nearly pronounced enough

Yeah, it works sometimes, but is so unpredictable that it makes it pointless to try them if you aren't even somewhat good at them. I don't think there is any good solution because the latency could likely cause a huge problem.

[GameplayDevUFC]

Re: Watch This: 13 (FAILED) Submission Attempts in ONE ROUND -- NO STAMINA DRAIN??

To be fair, stamina does have an effect, gates a no stamina DO move slower ,but it is extremely minor, the effect is not nearly pronounced enough

Well, there you go.

I believe it was changed to use the stamina difference between the two fighters, where last year it was just one fighters stamina alone. I forget which one.

So it will be more pronounced sometimes and less pronounced others when compared to ufc 1.

But like I said, I will check in with the guys who tune subs next week.

Oh, and I seem to remember seeing stats that sub finishes are more frequent in ufc 2 than 1.

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[Supreme_Bananas]

Re: Watch This: 13 (FAILED) Submission Attempts in ONE ROUND -- NO STAMINA DRAIN??

Well, there you go.

I believe it was changed to use the stamina difference between the two fighters, where last year it was just one fighters stamina alone. I forget which one.

So it will be more pronounced sometimes and less pronounced others when compared to ufc 1.

But like I said, I will check in with the guys who tune subs next week.

Oh, and I seem to remember seeing stats that sub finishes are more frequent in ufc 2 than 1.

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I think that is due to different factors than the subs themselves.
I think that is mostly because.

1. more people are playing the game than UFC1
2. it is easier to get takedowns
3. it is much harder to keep people in mount/crucifix and KO them from there -> more sub attempts

[GameplayDevUFC]

Re: Watch This: 13 (FAILED) Submission Attempts in ONE ROUND -- NO STAMINA DRAIN??

I think that is due to different factors than the subs themselves.
I think that is mostly because.

1. more people are playing the game than UFC1
2. it is easier to get takedowns
3. it is much harder to keep people in mount/crucifix and KO them from there -> more sub attempts

Probably true, but I bring it up because I have a feeling that there may not be a huge appetite for making subs any easier.

But I could be wrong.

Sent from my LT30a using Tapatalk

[fishingtime]

Re: Watch This: 13 (FAILED) Submission Attempts in ONE ROUND -- NO STAMINA DRAIN??

Probably true, but I bring it up because I have a feeling that there may not be a huge appetite for making subs any easier.

But I could be wrong.

Sent from my LT30a using Tapatalk

That is the problem. We have it on both sides. The two stage are too easy already, and the other ones are too hard a lot of times. Making them easier would mess with the already "OP" ones. There is no easy solution.

[Supreme_Bananas]

Re: Watch This: 13 (FAILED) Submission Attempts in ONE ROUND -- NO STAMINA DRAIN??

Probably true, but I bring it up because I have a feeling that there may not be a huge appetite for making subs any easier.

But I could be wrong.

Sent from my LT30a using Tapatalk

True, so this is the idea I have for UFC3:

We already have the counter TD guillotine/kimura and the counter kneebar standing up/counter guillotine from sprawl, we need more of those, in addition to strike catch submissions, kind of like the arm trap but with submissions. Those submissions should come with a big advantage.

To counter that, "normal" submissions should be very hard to complete unless the opponent is exhausted or badly hurt (rock & lock). Just my suggestion

[SUGATA]

Re: Watch This: 13 (FAILED) Submission Attempts in ONE ROUND -- NO STAMINA DRAIN??

Like I said, it's because the impact of stamina varies across different kinds of submissions.

The idea is that technical moves that don't require strength and stamina aren't as impacted by stamina as techniques that are more strength based. The motivation was to differentiate technical BJJ fighters from wrestlers, and to add more depth to the meta.

For example, from SUB guard there are 4 possible submissions, and they have different properties.

The arm bar is equally sensitive to stamina and GA differences.

The omoplata and triangle are heavily weighted towards GA, because they are more technical moves.

The guillotine and kimura are heavily weighted towards stamina, because they are more brute force techniques that require less finesse and more strength.

What this means, is if you are sitting on a stamina advantage, you will get a quicker transition going for a guillotine or kimura.

If you are sitting on a GA advantage, you'll get a quicker transition going for the omoplata or triangle.

If you have a little bit of both, you're going to have the most success with the arm bar.

If you have a MASSIVE GA or stamina advantage, you'll get 90% of the speed up no matter which one you choose.

All this plays into the mind games of which transition to pick, and which way to deny when both players know what's up.

This is what i suggested before but no one pay attention to it:

Still no responses from GPD, he was our only hope for this... =(

At the same time i have more questions:
there are 2 types of submissions - Joint (wrestlers) and Choke (bjj),

as we know:

My Transition meter speed/Denial window depends on (faster TM/Shorter DW):
1. Stamina advantage (SA): I (Attacker) has more Stamina than Defenseman = faster speed of Transition meter - game calculates the difference in Stamina between 2 fighters, and that contributes to the rate at which TM fills.
2. Grapple Advantage (GA) - plays a big role in determining the speed at which the TM fills.
3. Both Fighters’ attributes & perks – the difference in ratings between 2 fighters is calculated, and that contributes to the difficulty calculation of the GM (Fighter with better Grappling ratings will require much less of GA or SA for that GM to becomes viable.)
4. GM difficulty - how big of an improvement in position this GM will give you (example: TD to FG is easier than TD to HG, TD to SC is harder than TD to HG). Easy GMs are slightly affected by increased GA and SA; Difficult GMs are affected a lot by increased GA and SA.
5. Health: no effect.
1-4 factors has different % role between each other for different GMs.
GM difficulty (4 factor) determines which SA (1 factor) or GA (2 factor) plays the biggest role in reducing TM/DW.
BALANCED GM – 50/50; balanced GMs.
WRESTLING GM – SA has more % role than GA; GMs that are less technical and more strength based.
BJJ GM – GA has more % role than SA; GMs that are more technical in nature.
[If I am in SDA] try to gain more GA > perform BJJ GM
[If I am in GDA (received some hits)] but has SA > perform Wrestling GM
[If my fighter is Wrestler] try to have SA (more than GA).
[If my fighter is BJJ] try to have GA (more than SA).

It MAY BE the cause why we can not to compete our submissions w high SA, which was complained before in several threads.

The cause:
GA and SA take its effect on Submission mini game too not only on Submission initiation.
And for Joint (wrestlers) submission is important more SA. For Choke (bjj) submission is more important GA not SA.

I hope GPD will comment my thoughts, also i will test it by myself.

I asked again, GPD could you give us the exact knowledge of which factors are affecting submission MINI-GAME details?
(perfect swoop, SA, GA, how to determine which submission is more affected by SA not by GA more assured)
here please:
http://www.operationsports.com/forum...bmissions.html

[Haz____]

Re: Watch This: 13 (FAILED) Submission Attempts in ONE ROUND -- NO STAMINA DRAIN??

Making stamina have a real effect on the submission mini game would make subs HARDER not EASIER. Most people just spam subs willy nilly with no set up. If you actually had to wait/ set up the right opportunity to do the submission it would make it so much more rewarding.

[norml]

Re: Watch This: 13 (FAILED) Submission Attempts in ONE ROUND -- NO STAMINA DRAIN??

Making stamina have a real effect on the submission mini game would make subs HARDER not EASIER. Most people just spam subs willy nilly with no set up. If you actually had to wait/ set up the right opportunity to do the submission it would make it so much more rewarding.

Exactly!!!

[fishingtime]

Re: Watch This: 13 (FAILED) Submission Attempts in ONE ROUND -- NO STAMINA DRAIN??

Making stamina have a real effect on the submission mini game would make subs HARDER not EASIER. Most people just spam subs willy nilly with no set up. If you actually had to wait/ set up the right opportunity to do the submission it would make it so much more rewarding.

It would actually do both. High stamina against low stamina would be easier. Low stamina against high stamina would be harder. There needs to be what the OP said, a tax on slapping on a sub and fighting for it. At least with some subs. Some are joint locks that really wouldn't take much stamina to try. Any flying sub should have a massive drain compared to an armbar.

[trainbyday1]

Re: Watch This: 13 (FAILED) Submission Attempts in ONE ROUND -- NO STAMINA DRAIN??

Probably true, but I bring it up because I have a feeling that there may not be a huge appetite for making subs any easier.

But I could be wrong.

Sent from my LT30a using Tapatalk

I don't understand the logic here. It's not about making subs easier or harder but about consistency continuity. If you have full stamina and the other player has no stamina it should be easier to submit them compared to when they have full stamina and the same should be true for escapes. I don’t mean to be rude but that is pretty basic stuff. I am not sure about the mechanics of making that happen but in practice I thought that would have been the desired outcome from the start.

I would also like the option to go for a sub when I knock my opponent down instead of going for the TKO. It should also stand to reason that attempting to sub someone while they are rocked should be easier than when they are not.

[GameplayDevUFC]

Re: Watch This: 13 (FAILED) Submission Attempts in ONE ROUND -- NO STAMINA DRAIN??

I don't understand the logic here. It's not about making subs easier or harder but about consistency continuity. If you have full stamina and the other player has no stamina it should be easier to submit them compared to when they have full stamina and the same should be true for escapes.

That's how it already works. Exactly as you describe it.

What I'm saying is there may not be a big appetite to change it because it's working pretty well by all accounts, up until this thread, and the metrics say we're already getting more sub finishes than the last game (for whatever reasons).

[Morgan Monkman]

Re: Watch This: 13 (FAILED) Submission Attempts in ONE ROUND -- NO STAMINA DRAIN??

That's how it already works. Exactly as you describe it.

What I'm saying is there may not be a big appetite to change it because it's working pretty well by all accounts, up until this thread, and the metrics say we're already getting more sub finishes than the last game (for whatever reasons).

It's definitely not working well, IMO.