Strikes Per Minute: Stamina in UFC 3.

[norml]

Re: Strikes Per Minute: Stamina in UFC 3.

Another part of the problem is TD denials being too easy

Irl you have to respect the TD so you cant just swing like crazy(Diaz does but gets taken down at will because of it.

This was my biggest concern for this game. Looks like it’s still a problem.

[Haz____]

Re: Strikes Per Minute: Stamina in UFC 3.

200 strikes in 1 round... lol

[ZombieRommel]

Re: Strikes Per Minute: Stamina in UFC 3.

I've raised the issue to GPD. It's a little complex. Right now the stamina meta is skewed toward punishing opponents after their flurries with body strikes, which is exactly what GPD's deep dive said. If you do that, it works (except against Diaz, but he's a different issue altogether).

Some fighters, notably Diakese, gas a lot from output alone.

GPD's reply to me (and I think he'd be cool with me revealing it since the beta is public now) is that if he were to increase stamina expenditure baseline, he'd probably have to dial back how much the body strikes do to compensate. Otherwise it would be too extreme, which I agree with.

Thing is, I believe most fighters are balanced pretty well stamina-wise. Conor can't flurry nonstop especially if you attack his body. Diakese can't. Eddie Alvarez has a good cardio stat but he too gasses if you go to his body or if he spams.

Diaz however has multiple perks that essentially give him an endless gas tank even if he spams and takes body shots, so I think he might be skewing perception of overall stamina.

But, I still think baseline stamina expenditure is still probably a little too low. I think it should be raised A LITTLE, Diaz perks should be beaten back a lot, and guys with already bad cardio like Diakese will need a slight cardio buff to compensate.

[Serengeti1]

Re: Strikes Per Minute: Stamina in UFC 3.

GPD's reply to me (and I think he'd be cool with me revealing it since the beta is public now) is that if he were to increase stamina expenditure baseline, he'd probably have to dial back how much the body strikes do to compensate. Otherwise it would be too extreme, which I agree with.

This is EXACTLY what needs to happen. You can take someone's stamina down a ton as it is with body kicks. It's a little over the top. This would kill two birds with one stone. Please push for this.

Look at the post above yours. It's not just Diaz. The stamina system is absolutely off across the board.

[Mossfan8480]

Re: Strikes Per Minute: Stamina in UFC 3.

I would like to reiterate, these insane strike totals are happening with an accelerated clock. A 5 minute round is actually 3 minutes real time. So not only did Khabib throw 197 strikes in one round, he threw 197 strikes in 3 minutes.

How can you expect the game to play out like an actual MMA fight if you have guys able to throw 65 strikes a minute?

That's a different sport; a made up one, that belongs to the imagination of the casual fan.

The fact that the game has made it this far without any developer suggesting it be changed, tells me one of two things: (1) They don't actually watch MMA, or, (2) and far more likely, they are trying to cater to what they believe a mainstream audience prefers with an arcade like representation of MMA and the UFC.

[DeadHunter1911]

Re: Strikes Per Minute: Stamina in UFC 3.

I would like to reiterate, these insane strike totals are happening with an accelerated clock. A 5 minute round is actually 3 minutes real time. So not only did Khabib throw 197 strikes in one round, he threw 197 strikes in 3 minutes.

How can you expect the game to play out like an actual MMA fight if you have guys able to throw 65 strikes a minute?

That's a different sport; a made up one, that belongs to the imagination of the casual fan.

The fact that the game has made it this far without any developer suggesting it be changed, tells me one of two things: (1) They don't actually watch MMA, or, (2) and far more likely, they are trying to cater to what they believe a mainstream audience prefers with an arcade like representation of MMA and the UFC.

I would agree with you if it wasn't for the fact that playing in such a way is not effective against someone who knows what they are doing. And in that way, it doesn't cater to the rock em sock em casuals.

[Serengeti1]

Re: Strikes Per Minute: Stamina in UFC 3.

I would agree with you if it wasn't for the fact that playing in such a way is not effective against someone who knows what they are doing. And in that way, it doesn't cater to the rock em sock em casuals.

The argument that it's punishable doesn't make it okay. You can have guys that know what they're doing but exploit the fact that the stamina system is messed up.

At the end of the day.... A balanced game is a better game. It's as simple as that.

[Kenetic NRG]

Re: Strikes Per Minute: Stamina in UFC 3.

If someone wants to throw 100+ strikes a round vs any good player they will lose very quick. Counters all day and stamina drain.

I wish people would understand the game first before attacking important mechanics.

[Serengeti1]

Re: Strikes Per Minute: Stamina in UFC 3.

If someone wants to throw 100+ strikes a round vs any good player they will lose very quick. Counters all day and stamina drain.

I wish people would understand the game first before attacking important mechanics.

How is EASILY having the stamina to throw 200 strikes a round an important mechanic? There is literally no point in defending this at all.

I know exactly how to punish this. You go to the body when their stamina is low or they've just thrown and it will drain it a lot. That doesn't make it okay that they can throw 200 strikes a round with barely any penalty.

It's starting to get annoying when people say "just do this and get good". Making the assumption that the issue is we don't know how to deal with it. That's not what it's about. A balanced game is a better game. And players with high skill level also take advantage and benefit from things that aren't balanced. Just likely not to the extreme of the bad players.

[Kenetic NRG]

Re: Strikes Per Minute: Stamina in UFC 3.

How is EASILY having the stamina to throw 200 strikes a round an important mechanic? There is literally no point in defending this at all.

I know exactly how to punish this. You go to the body when their stamina is low or they've just thrown and it will drain it a lot. That doesn't make it okay that they can throw 200 strikes a round with barely any penalty.

It's starting to get annoying when people say "just do this and get good". Making the assumption that the issue is we don't know how to deal with it. That's not what it's about. A balanced game is a better game. And players with high skill level also take advantage and benefit from things that aren't balanced. Just likely not to the extreme of the bad players.

I’m confused, do you not think a professional MMA fighter has the physical ability to throw 200 strikes in a round? Not saying every round, just one round. You can’t throw 200 a round for every round or even 2 with most fighters in UFC3.

[Serengeti1]

Re: Strikes Per Minute: Stamina in UFC 3.

I’m confused, do you not think a professional MMA fighter has the physical ability to throw 200 strikes in a round? Not saying every round, just one round. You can’t throw 200 a round for every round or even 2 with most fighters in UFC3.

Look at the screenshots on the last page. Yes, you can. Read the whole thread. It clearly outlines that balancing is needed. It's not even really debatable.

If a fighter irl threw 200 strikes in a round... they would get finished in the second for sure lol. If not, the first. That's not even the point though because it's literally never been done.

[Haz_____]

Re: Strikes Per Minute: Stamina in UFC 3.

Gonna go ahead and bump this thread because there's a lot of good discussion and data here.

[RomeroXVII]

Re: Strikes Per Minute: Stamina in UFC 3.

The stamina in this game is insanely unrealistic. I'm seeing people go completely crazy in round 1, just chasing me down down non stop, throwing a never ending stream of strikes. I've seen countless fights where in the first round alone, people are throwing 170+ strikes, and starting round 2 with near full stamina still. Now i'm sure i'm gonna get a handful of people jumping down my throat for saying that, but it's true, and hear me out.

Now first off, can that type of striking be dealt with? Sure. of course. We have talked about in it many of the other threads. Duck a punch and counter. Slip and Counter. Use lunge back to create distance. Etc. But whether it can be dealt with is not the point. The point is, that it shouldn't even be possible in the first place. You shouldn't be able to throw 180 strikes, and still start round 2 just fine.


http://fightnomics.com/category/blog...striking-pace/

According to this graph, which tracks all fights in the UFC starting from the very beginning.... The average number of strikes per min IN REAL LIFE, is only around 9 strikes. 9 strikes per minute.. In EA UFC 3, it's more like 30-40 strikes per minute. That's an incredibly huge difference.

Now i'm totally OK with you being able to throw 180 strikes in a round. Go for it. But there needs to be consequences to putting that kind of work in. If you throw 180 strikes in round 1, you better be starting round 2 with a big ol' chunk out of your stamina. As it stands now, unless you're actively putting in body work ALSO, then the opponent isn't draining much stamina at all, despite the fact they are throwing an entire fights worth of strikes in 1 round. Again tho, this goes back to my original point; Whether it can be dealt with is not the point. The point is, that it shouldn't even be possible in the first place.







Here's another interesting article which showes how Diaz actually broke the world record for most strikes in a fight when he fought Conor the 2nd time.

https://www.sportsjoe.ie/mma/nate-diaz-set-a-ufc-record-during-his-five-round-war-with-conor-mcgregor-92949

Diaz threw 435 strikes in that fight. That is the world record for strikes thrown in a fight.... Now in EA UFC 3, almost every single 5 round fight completely blows that out of the water. Shoot, almost every 3 round fight in EA UFC 3 blows that out of the water..

Conor only threw 322 strikes that fight. In 5 rounds he threw 322 strikes and was completely and totally gassed out. Why can Conor throw that many strikes in just 2 rounds in EA UFC 3, and be just fine? That is an issue. The stamina in this game is an issue.


My suggestion, is that when you throw long enough strings of combinations to drain most, or all of your short term stamina, that needs to have a bigger effect on long term stamina drain. This would reward picking your shots, but put a tax on non stop pressure, while still allowing you to go completely crazy in a round if you really wanted. Which is far more realistic.

I WAS GOING TO MAKE A POST ABOUT THIS TODAY. BRAVO I LIKE.

And I'm somebody who can tell what strikes are coming out no matter how fast they're being thrown. (80% of the time)

This would change everything if the stamina worked the way you suggested it. I had a fight today against a McGregor who threw 144 strikes, landed 44, and had the same stamina as me when I landed 26 out of 46 in Round 1 and I was Bruce Lee. Even though I got the win in the second, I can imagine how frustrating it is for people who don't have the defense down pat, and having to deal with an offensive onslaught that has little to no penalty.

If their stamina isn't dead, your block and head health will be.

[Counter Punch]

Re: Strikes Per Minute: Stamina in UFC 3.

I’m confused, do you not think a professional MMA fighter has the physical ability to throw 200 strikes in a round? Not saying every round, just one round. You can’t throw 200 a round for every round or even 2 with most fighters in UFC3.

Total non-sequitur.