Fighter AI Realism vs Difficulty

[Nugget7211]

Re: Fighter AI Realism vs Difficulty

I've been finding the AI on hard to be pretty good. The only thing is a few fighter likeness things, Garbrandt pressuring rather than counterpunching and Woodley sticking in the pocket a little too much being the big ones, and lack of ability to control the pace, although I think this is somewhat related to the low kick checking issue.

The reason I think that about the pace is because the like 4-5 times I've gotten a good few low kicks off early and dropped the AI's leg health, they've fought at a far, far lower pace which actually allows me to control engagements a lot more with Aldo or pressure much more effectively with RDA because the AI can't brawl its way off the fence or out of an exchange without risking a low kick health event or knockdown. I really can't wait for the checking changes, because low kicks are a big part of my style IRL and a lot of my favourite fighter's styles as well (Aldo, RDA, Moraes etc) and it's really limiting me at the moment.

[The_Waterboy92]

Re: Fighter AI Realism vs Difficulty

This. It slows their pace down considerably in my opinion.

Do you keep the stamina recover between rounds or do you have that off?

[aholbert32]

Re: Fighter AI Realism vs Difficulty

Do you keep the stamina recover between rounds or do you have that off?

On. I tried off and I was running into situations where Flyweights like Benevidez and DJ were gassing at the end of the 2nd round.

[The_Waterboy92]

Re: Fighter AI Realism vs Difficulty

On. I tried off and I was running into situations where Flyweights like Benevidez and DJ were gassing at the end of the 2nd round.

Same here. I was primarily fighting with the top 3-4 weight classes when I was trying it so I wasn’t sure if it was every weight or not. I think keeping it on with the higher cost has been satisfying

[phillyfan23]

Fighter AI Realism vs Difficulty

None of the sliders directly effect AI logic, per se. All the sliders effect AI and users in the same way, like modifying their stats. So since there isn't a slider to change your own playstyle, they don't really do that to the AI either.



However, since the AI is taking their stats/health/stamina into account, it does impact them in that nature.



For things like transitions, it speeds up or slows down the attempt but doesn't change how often they try to go for it. If you were to increase stamina consumption, however, it would cause the AI to want to rest more often, which would technically change that behavior, but not in a direct way. Does that make sense??



This is why tuning the AI can be so difficult some times, they are heavily integrated systems where touching one thing has a butterfly effect to places you don't always intend, and there is rarely a single knob to do the exact one thing you want...

That’s something Ive been wondering about. My biggest concern is the stamina slider. If we increasr the stamina cost slider for hum vs cou matches, the human player will surely adjust and be more cautious so that he doesnt gas. Will the cpu do the same?

My worry is that since you said sliders do not affect cpu logic, during the first round the cpu will go balls out striking disregarding the stamina cost slider and they will play catchup on their “ stamina” all match long and will give an artificial advantage to the user as the match goes on.

If the cpu is cognizant of the higher stamina cost, from the get go the cpu would be more cautious just like the user. Any way you can address this? Maybe add a cpu ai output slider via patch? Because if the cpu only adjusts their strike output after their stamina is depleted, their strike output trend will be predictable on games with higher stamina cost slider.

Overagressive in the first round, burn a lot of their stamina then fight more cautiously as the match continues but at this point they are lacking speed and punch power due to the stamina hit they took in round 1 which ultimately gives the user a striking advantage every match.

Thanks


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[The_Waterboy92]

Re: Fighter AI Realism vs Difficulty

That’s something Ive been wondering about. My biggest concern is the stamina slider. If we increasr the stamina cost slider for hum vs cou matches, the human player will surely adjust and be more cautious so that he doesnt gas. Will the cpu do the same?

My worry is that since you said sliders do not affect cpu logic, during the first round the cpu will go balls out striking disregarding the stamina cost slider and they will play catchup on their “ stamina” all match long and will give an artificial advantage to the user as the match goes on.

If the cpu is cognizant of the higher stamina cost, from the get go the cpu would be more cautious just like the user. Any way you can address this? Maybe add a cpu ai output slider via patch? Because if the cpu only adjusts their strike output after their stamina is depleted, their strike output trend will be predictable on games with higher stamina cost slider.

Overagressive in the first round, burn a lot of their stamina then fight more cautiously as the match continues but at this point they are lacking speed and punch power due to the stamina hit they took in round 1 which ultimately gives the user a striking advantage every match.

Thanks


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The stamina cost slider does change how the CPU acts. I’m not sure if it’s intended or not, but having the slider higher (thus costing more stamina for strikes) does change how they fight. I’ve noticed they fight much less over aggressive. I’ve experienced few situations where they burn their stamina in a the first round and both times it was because I was rocked and they tried to finish me aggressive. This did not happen every time though. Overall I did see that the AI adjusted their tactics and seemed more aware of their stamina and such.
Hopefully that answers your question a little

[aholbert32]

Re: Fighter AI Realism vs Difficulty

The stamina cost slider does change how the CPU acts. I’m not sure if it’s intended or not, but having the slider higher (thus costing more stamina for strikes) does change how they fight. I’ve noticed they fight much less over aggressive. I’ve experienced few situations where they burn their stamina in a the first round and both times it was because I was rocked and they tried to finish me aggressive. This did not happen every time though. Overall I did see that the AI adjusted their tactics and seemed more aware of their stamina and such.
Hopefully that answers your question a little

I second this.


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[gbmbjj]

Re: Fighter AI Realism vs Difficulty

I would highly recommend increasing the stamina cost. I’ve found it makes the AI more realistic with their attacking and with grappling then the default. Again just my opinion but I would try it out

So, Hard setting....with everything on default, except STAMINA RECOVERY OFF, and STAMINA COST turned up? I'll give it a try.

Like, 15 clicks instead of 10?

Also, should I do this to both myself and AI? Or just the AI?

[aholbert32]

Re: Fighter AI Realism vs Difficulty

So, Hard setting....with everything on default, except STAMINA RECOVERY OFF, and STAMINA COST turned up? I'll give it a try.

Like, 15 clicks instead of 10?

Also, should I do this to both myself and AI? Or just the AI?

I do it for both and I only go up 3 clicks at the most


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[gbmbjj]

Re: Fighter AI Realism vs Difficulty

The stamina cost slider does change how the CPU acts. I’m not sure if it’s intended or not, but having the slider higher (thus costing more stamina for strikes) does change how they fight. I’ve noticed they fight much less over aggressive. I’ve experienced few situations where they burn their stamina in a the first round and both times it was because I was rocked and they tried to finish me aggressive. This did not happen every time though. Overall I did see that the AI adjusted their tactics and seemed more aware of their stamina and such.
Hopefully that answers your question a little

Skynet eluded to this indirect change in AI behavior in a reply he wrote me earlier today.

He said that adjusting that slider doesn't directly affect the AI behavior, HOWEVER since it might come into low stamina more often due to the increase setting, it'll pull back more often, or conserve energy more often. So indirectly, yes it affects it.

[The_Waterboy92]

Re: Fighter AI Realism vs Difficulty

Skynet eluded to this indirect change in AI behavior in a reply he wrote me earlier today.

He said that adjusting that slider doesn't directly affect the AI behavior, HOWEVER since it might come into low stamina more often due to the increase setting, it'll pull back more often, or conserve energy more often. So indirectly, yes it affects it.

Ahh solid good to know it was more or less confirmed

[phillyfan23]

Fighter AI Realism vs Difficulty

If increasing the stamina slider affects the cpu ai from the BEGINNING of the 1st round then yes , thats great news. But what i am worried about and what i have seen from gameplay with raised stamina slider is that in round 1 , the cpu still goes all out, depletes their stamina and THEN adjust and strike less.

But by this point, the user already is ahead of the stamina “8 ball” and has a clear advantage moving forward making the match easier artificially.

Just do a single test only for round 1. Fight against an agressive cpu opponenent using the same user player and same cpu player and play round 1 first with default stamina slider and then play another round 1 with stamina upped 5 clicks and check the strike output.

If both round 1 yields roughly the same amount of strikes, the cpu is not cognizant of the stamina slider and will only adjust when they are tired.

If after round 1 the cpu strikes are significantly different like going from 85 to 55, then we know the cpu is cognizant of the new stamina slider. It’s a simple test and hopefully some of you can do this and show me some concrete stats.

That is why an ai output slider is needed so we can adjust cpu aggression and make the fights more realistic.


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[The_Waterboy92]

Re: Fighter AI Realism vs Difficulty

So, Hard setting....with everything on default, except STAMINA RECOVERY OFF, and STAMINA COST turned up? I'll give it a try.

Like, 15 clicks instead of 10?

Also, should I do this to both myself and AI? Or just the AI?

Definitely do it for both you and the AI. I would recommend stamina recovery on but that’s just my opinion so that it doesn’t get too unrealistic in later rounds. And I have it on 13/14 clicks as well and have found it satisfying. (I would also adjust the grappling ones but that’s just me)

[The_Waterboy92]

Re: Fighter AI Realism vs Difficulty

If increasing the stamina slider affects the cpu ai from the BEGINNING of the 1st round then yes , thats great news. But what i am worried about and what i have seen from gameplay with raised stamina slider is that in round 1 , the cpu still goes all out, depletes their stamina and THEN adjust and strike less.

But by this point, the user already is ahead of the stamina “8 ball” and has a clear advantage moving forward making the match easier artificially.

Just do a single test only for round 1. Fight against an agressive cpu opponenent using the same user player and same cpu player and play round 1 first with default stamina slider and then play another round 1 with stamina upped 5 clicks and check the strike output.

If both round 1 yields roughly the same amount of strikes, the cpu is not cognizant of the stamina slider and will only adjust when they are tired.

If after round 1 the cpu strikes are significantly different like going from 85 to 55, then we know the cpu is cognizant of the new stamina slider. It’s a simple test and hopefully some of you can do this and show me some concrete stats.

That is why an ai output slider is needed so we can adjust cpu aggression and make the fights more realistic.


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In response to this I have noticed a difference in output from adjusting the stamina slider up. Multiple styles of fighter have decreased their strike output. I am not saying this is 100% true for every fighter but there is definitely a noticeable difference

[phillyfan23]

Re: Fighter AI Realism vs Difficulty

In response to this I have noticed a difference in output from adjusting the stamina slider up. Multiple styles of fighter have decreased their strike output. I am not saying this is 100% true for every fighter but there is definitely a noticeable difference

Can you do that test i mentioned and report your round 1 cpu ai strike output? Use acc clock and see if there is a difference

Thanks


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