"predictive" head movement doesn't work

[Supreme_Bananas]

Re: "predictive" head movement doesn't work

Sorry if im not explaining it right

Start up frames is amount of frames before a move becomes “active”.

In game the start up frames are imo too long and that’s the “delay” everyone experiences

I think we need lower start up frames but tune evasion/vulnerability frames depending on ratings.

If the head movement activates sooner we can see our fighter respond sooner even if he/she still gets hit. Then we’d feel more in control vs what we currenty have.

The 30fps vs 60fps also is an issue since the frame rate is half as fast as it should be(60 frames per sec is standard for fighting games)

Ah yeah, had to switch on Tekken mode before I got that lol. It feels like head movement is like i20 in a 30fps game...

[FCB x Finlay]

Re: "predictive" head movement doesn't work

Is this juat for headmovent or for strikea as well as I feel it there as well.

[dina1229]

Re: "predictive" head movement doesn't work

Do you mean "input lag" even offline and bigger than the normal one for wireless controler and TV (like for other games)?

Look call it input lag, call it frames. Call it whatever you want. When I push a button on my controller and nothing is happening at all for a full second I have a problem. You guys can debate the vocabulary used.

Anyone played pub g on Xbox one since it came out? No one could hit anything. People were unloading entire magazines on each other and never hitting a shot in gunfights. They just addressed the input lag and oh my God it's night and day difference. It's like a twitch shooter now. If you're holding right on the aiming stick and snap it to the left the aim responds to change directions immediately.

I am NOT referring to the animation speed. I am referring to how long my fighter takes to make headmovement after I tell him to. It's noticable with punches too but since the animation speed is so fast it's less noticable. These things are all less noticable in lighter weight divisions. They become a nuisance in middleweight or higher especially with taller fighters or fighters that don't have maxed striking stats.

I am aware that the start up time far taller longer fighters is longer when striking. But again this is all about headmovement. It's unresponsive.

[Solid_Altair]

Re: "predictive" head movement doesn't work

Why are you always calling it an illusion? I know for a fact in FNR 3 you could evade strikes via reaction and to some extent UFC 2. Yes some of it was caused due to intentionally poor tracking but not all of it.

Some actions happen by a measure of reaction along with a measure of anticipation. In these cases it is very very easy to assume there is more reaction there than there actually is, specially if some things seem to require a lot of specificity but actually don't.

For instance, you may react to the guy getting in the range to punch you and already lean back. Then the ends up throwing a hook and you dodge it. It's very easy to think you specifically saw the hook coming and dodged it. EA UFC 3 actually requires more specificity than ever (despite only having the 4 directions) and dispells some of the illusions from the previous games. The common interpretation to this is that head movement is too slow and that why you "can't react like you used to".

To put this to the test, try to estimate how specific your reactions were in one of the previous games, then go do some experiments to really check specific the actions were or if youc an really react to the strikes if thrown at random times and set ups. A friend of mine did that and his mind was blown.

I've only just started playing today so have yet to play top players (did in beta but I don't remember any kind of high level head movement). They all have quite a lot of time over me so don't want to mess with ranked yet. Would rather get comfortable with things more first.

If you can post a video of players doing this that would help. I understand ducking is very useful but past that... I'm not seeing much use for the other angles used.

I understand ducking can be countered but it's the least likely to be. You wouldn't want to get too predictable with it against someone who is trying to counter it... but as long as you're careful with that... I don't see much of a reason to use sways. They feel like much more of a risk. Maybe ducking consistently and then getting ur opponent to uppercut... then switching to sways could be an effective strategy though?

All I can say is from my experience so far... The head movement feels too one dimensional.

This was one of the very few opponents who slipped when rocked, to avoid the block busts:

Spoiler

<iframe width="854" height="480" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/Tu0XPLF5pEg" frameborder="0" allow="autoplay; encrypted-media" allowfullscreen></iframe>

And this is one with Cerrone, who has bad head movement:

Spoiler

<iframe width="854" height="480" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/s6WqsEOeEJM" frameborder="0" allow="autoplay; encrypted-media" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[Phillyboi207]

Re: &quot;predictive&quot; head movement doesn't work

Is this juat for headmovent or for strikea as well as I feel it there as well.

Everything is frame based.

[FCB x Finlay]

Re: &quot;predictive&quot; head movement doesn't work

Everything is frame based.

Yeah, it takes just over a second to throw a strike just after i input it at times, headmovent at hw is impossible at timea.

[Phillyboi207]

Re: &quot;predictive&quot; head movement doesn't work

Some actions happen by a measure of reaction along with a measure of anticipation. In these cases it is very very easy to assume there is more reaction there than there actually is, specially if some things seem to require a lot of specificity but actually don't.

For instance, you may react to the guy getting in the range to punch you and already lean back. Then the ends up throwing a hook and you dodge it. It's very easy to think you specifically saw the hook coming and dodged it. EA UFC 3 actually requires more specificity than ever (despite only having the 4 directions) and dispells some of the illusions from the previous games. The common interpretation to this is that head movement is too slow and that why you "can't react like you used to".

To put this to the test, try to estimate how specific your reactions were in one of the previous games, then go do some experiments to really check specific the actions were or if youc an really react to the strikes if thrown at random times and set ups. A friend of mine did that and his mind was blown

That’s a lot of assuming on your part though. Yes it may happen at times but with fight night specifically you can bait and react to strikes being thrown. It’s especially more important because how you dodged isnt based on an artificial rock paper scissors system.

I definitely disagree about the precision requird with the current system. It’s super forgiving if you happen to guess rock>scissors and doesnt rely on timing or angles as much.

I wish I could do the tests myself but I only have an xbox one now.

[Solid_Altair]

Re: &quot;predictive&quot; head movement doesn't work

Yeah, it takes just over a second to throw a strike just after i input it at times, headmovent at hw is impossible at timea.

If you mean offline, I hope you're joking or exagerating.

[SwedishTouch76]

Re: &quot;predictive&quot; head movement doesn't work

Firstly, there is no input lag. The "delay" is the time it takes to move the head far enough to evade the strike.

Secondly, if you climb the rankings far enough (doesn't even need to get close to top 100), you will see that is not the case.

Thirdly, what fighters are you using? If you're using someone with a low head movvement stat, it's gonna be hard to time your slips. The difference between a top level head movement fighter and a bad one is quite substantial,s o that not everybody slips like Anderson Silva.

It's insane how you either won't acknowledge or challenge any issue people here talk about.

[Solid_Altair]

Re: &quot;predictive&quot; head movement doesn't work

That’s a lot of assuming on your part though. Yes it may happen at times but with fight night specifically you can bait and react to strikes being thrown. It’s especially more important because how you dodged isnt based on an artificial rock paper scissors system.

I definitely disagree about the precision requird with the current system. It’s super forgiving if you happen to guess rock>scissors and doesnt rely on timing or angles as much.

I wish I could do the tests myself but I only have an xbox one now.

Those are parts of the illusion, too.

BTW I know I sound like a pompous jerk with this illusion talk. It's somewhat of a sacrifice to go this route. But I find it worth doing.

[Phillyboi207]

Re: &quot;predictive&quot; head movement doesn't work

It's insane how you either won't acknowledge or challenge any issue people here talk about.

He’s “technically” correct

When you press the button the game recognizes the input and responds appropriately. The delay is by design

[Solid_Altair]

Re: &quot;predictive&quot; head movement doesn't work

It's insane how you either won't acknowledge or challenge any issue people here talk about.

Maybe you should recommend me a psychiatrist, then.

[Phillyboi207]

Re: &quot;predictive&quot; head movement doesn't work

Those are parts of the illusion, too.

BTW I know I sound like a pompous jerk with this illusion talk. It's somewhat of a sacrifice to go this route. But I find it worth doing.

Wait you think angles and timing are illusions???

LOL

I mean if you dont understand how it works or how it applied to fight night that’s fine but no need to dismiss something because of your lack of understanding.

Edit: Heck I will gladly explain it to you if you give me a specific example of angles/timing not really existing.

[SwedishTouch76]

Re: &quot;predictive&quot; head movement doesn't work

He’s “technically” correct

When you press the button the game recognizes the input and responds appropriately. The delay is by design

He's also in another thread saying stamina is fine. Whatever. Reading through here this forum saved me some money.

[FCB x Finlay]

Re: &quot;predictive&quot; head movement doesn't work

If you mean offline, I hope you're joking or exagerating.

Online, offline it isnt that bad still noticeable.

Offline hasnt got that much playability for me personally.