"predictive" head movement doesn't work

[LittleEvil]

Re: "predictive" head movement doesn't work

I've shared my complaints, but count me among the few who likes the direction head movement is taking. Its not perfect, but its a step in the right direction. Not everyone in the UFC uses proper head movement + the head movement stat and accuracy stats should play a factor, which they do. Using a high head movement stat fighter, its not hard to avoid punches you know are coming. And if you want 360 head movement, just don't move your feet. I think it needs some tightening maybe, but I like the system in place.

[Boiler569]

Re: "predictive" head movement doesn't work

I've also had trouble with predictive head movement

Not sure if it's the 'lag' or just my lack of skill lol

I was very good with head movement in fight night (Joe Frazier baby!) --- haven't been able to get the hang of it so far in UFC 3.

Well, at least, the predictive part.

It's not difficult to randomly move your head and throw counter punches --- aka 'spam' head movement lol --- but to do it 'on purpose' does seem very difficult to me. I thought I was just a n00b but yea there does seem to be input lag, but maybe I still need to get used to it

[SeparatedNose]

Re: "predictive" head movement doesn't work

Firstly, there is no input lag. The "delay" is the time it takes to move the head far enough to evade the strike.

Secondly, if you climb the rankings far enough (doesn't even need to get close to top 100), you will see that is not the case.

Thirdly, what fighters are you using? If you're using someone with a low head movvement stat, it's gonna be hard to time your slips. The difference between a top level head movement fighter and a bad one is quite substantial,s o that not everybody slips like Anderson Silva.

Anderson Silva was mentioned specifically. Head movement is too slow, period. He laid out a clear case justifying why he feels that way. You provided zero relevant substance in your response.

[MalformedDC2009]

Re: "predictive" head movement doesn't work

If you could read the attacker's animations, and every fighter had head movement speed fast enough for you to be able to react and slip every strike, would the game be fun?

Even with max head movement speed, I don't think most people would be able to read every strike and dodge them all. It would still be a highly dangerous and risky game to play with the head movement. As it is, I really don't see much use for the mechanic at all. Giving max head movement speed would just make this a viable technique again, and make the game more fun. This is the only tiny gripe I have with the whole game. I really hope you will reconsider your position on this.

[Solid_Altair]

Re: "predictive" head movement doesn't work

I wouldn't even waste time arguing with Altair on this. He's in his own lane when it comes to head movement. I had to laugh when he said you couldn't dodge on reaction in Fight Night. Yeah, okay.

Now that I've gotten the mechanics together, I'm having fun with the game and you can do some good things, but the head movement system is still very poor. Let's not act like it's a step in the right direction.

I'll take that.

And ineed it will likely be a waste of time at this point, especially if you have participated of that "final boss" thread.

Anderson Silva was mentioned specifically. Head movement is too slow, period. He laid out a clear case justifying why he feels that way. You provided zero relevant substance in your response.

That's the tricky part.

[Supreme_Bananas]

Re: "predictive" head movement doesn't work

Even with max head movement speed, I don't think most people would be able to read every strike and dodge them all. It would still be a highly dangerous and risky game to play with the head movement. As it is, I really don't see much use for the mechanic at all. Giving max head movement speed would just make this a viable technique again, and make the game more fun. This is the only tiny gripe I have with the whole game. I really hope you will reconsider your position on this.

That's what I think too. I think that head movement should determine how fast and how far your head moves, but not how soon it moves, because right now head movement in any weight class above bantamweight feels like a waste of time

[dina1229]

Re: "predictive" head movement doesn't work

If you could read the attacker's animations, and every fighter had head movement speed fast enough for you to be able to react and slip every strike, would the game be fun?

You mean like the ground game?

[dina1229]

Re: "predictive" head movement doesn't work

It wouldn't make sense for CM Punk and others to be on the level of Anderson, so no, but the way you guys have implemented it could be tweaked.

If I understood correctly, there's a higher input delay depending on fighter head movement stat?

Could it be better if every fighter has the same input delay i.e. minimal, but the range of motion required to get to the safe zone be higher for some than others?

That way we have visual feedback letting us know a fighter has bad head movement and so moves slower than Anderson Silva, and don't blame it on unresponsive controls.

Also, Anderson, Conor and co could have a larger maximum distance, so their unsafe to safe zone ratio is 30 : 70 rather than 50 : 50 or something. So they essentially can lean further spending less time in danger territory.

One thing I want to check later is if the head movement moves 1 to 1 with the stick or if it's actually an input similar to a button press, where pushing the stick to x amount activates the head movement.

Having it 1 to 1 with the stick will help improve responsiveness. Combine it with the ideas above and you might just have a better version of your current system without taking it all apart.

This ^ Just have the reaction time be the same but change the animation speed or limit the animation range so the window for the evade is smaller.

[Solid_Altair]

Re: "predictive" head movement doesn't work

That's what I think too. I think that head movement should determine how fast and how far your head moves, but not how soon it moves, because right now head movement in any weight class above bantamweight feels like a waste of time

How fast and how soon are the same in a practical sense, in this case.

It isn't, though.

[Abstrakt fists]

Re: "predictive" head movement doesn't work

If you could read the attacker's animations, and every fighter had head movement speed fast enough for you to be able to react and slip every strike, would the game be fun?

If someone could read and react that quickly than yeah they deserve to win. Striking isnt the ground game, the striking animations dont take 5 seconds or whatever of holding a direction. Even if the sways were real time it would still be a predictive game to sway when the punch is thrown. We would just be confident that when we pushed the button the movement would happen instead of having to do latency and input lag algebra to try and time our movement.

I also feel the same way about pre loading strikes. Combos should be done by real time inputs timed off the end of the previous strike animation. I hate pushing 5 strikes and then waiting out the animation battle. Especially with force field blocking, in real time I could go body if they block the first one but as it is I need to back out and have another rock paper scissors animation battle.

[Solid_Altair]

Re: "predictive" head movement doesn't work

I also feel the same way about pre loading strikes. Combos should be done by real time inputs timed off the end of the previous strike animation. I hate pushing 5 strikes and then waiting out the animation battle. Especially with force field blocking, in real time I could go body if they block the first one but as it is I need to back out and have another rock paper scissors animation battle.

You can time the strikes in real time. Timing them earlier is just an option to make it easier. I don't understand the complaint.

[kush land]

Re: "predictive" head movement doesn't work

do u think it would be possible to block and dash back its kinda dumb i gotta let go of block get hit by three hooks then dash back thank you oh ufc 3 ur the best

[Solid_Altair]

Re: "predictive" head movement doesn't work

I think it's fair that the current back step doesn't allow blocking during it. I wouldn't oppose to the addition of another kind of back step, not as long and fast, but which allowed a weaker block during it. It would be a risk addition, though; because the current balance for this stuff is good.

[ZombieRommel]

Re: "predictive" head movement doesn't work

I get you bro

He is incredibly frustrating to me as well lol.

I’m not a fan of his preferences for the majority of the game but he did influence the current striking so he at least gets some props there

You should see some of the debates I've had with Solid in our chatroom talks with the devs. Legendary. Some went on for pages and pages. I wish you guys could see transcripts. It would give you some insight into the whole process.

Let me just say that I TOO feel the delay on the head movement and I pointed it out during the first GC Event I attended. It's not NEARLY as bad as it used to be, and the planted head movement feels about 75% as good as I'd like it to feel, so at this point I've kind of settled into the idea that GPD did what he could and further pestering him about this issue (which I spent an enormous amount of time pestering him about) will yield diminishing returns.

The 360, uber-responsive FNC head movement isn't something it seems like the devs want to replicate in this game. We have a decent approximation when using the planted head movement, even though it is spastic and we can't control angles with any granularity. It's such a big improvement over UFC2 that I've kind of been placated.

But yeah, this is something I never really agreed with Solid about (the other big issue being blind pick in ranked, which he is against). TO ME, as someone who has been playing video games since the late 80's, as someone who KNOWS what responsive controls feel like (Super Mario on NES nailed it), the head movement does feel delayed.

I think it has something to do with the "dead looking" startup frames where you actually get the invuln from the stick flick within a frame but your dude doesn't visually move his head until later. Devs may have been worried about the head movement looking too fast and cartoonish, but I don't like how it feels with this visual delay.

It would be like if Miyamoto programmed Mario Bros. so that pressing the jump button at the right time allowed Mario to take no damage, but you didn't see him actually jump until about .4 seconds later. It would feel weird and bad, even though the game is technically rewarding your inputs.

It just feels like a step back from FNC where the head movement was snappy and responsive and we could go exactly where we wanted to go, exactly when we wanted. And now it's like we're locked on rails.

Like I said, I've acclimated to it and I beat this issue INTO THE GROUND already in the chatrooms, so I don't feel like bringing it up again will do anything.

The only thing that might possibly get us more granular or faster movement is if you guys keep making noise about it so that devs & production know that people aren't happy and that this is a worthwhile allocation of resources.

But I kind of get the gist at this point that we're up against a wall in terms of either: the devs' vision for the game, or what the engine is capable of.

[kush land]

Re: "predictive" head movement doesn't work

I think it's fair that the current back step doesn't allow blocking during it. I wouldn't oppose to the addition of another kind of back step, not as long and fast, but which allowed a weaker block during it. It would be a risk addition, though; because the current balance for this stuff is good.

so i should just eat 3 hooks or risk moving my head and get knocked out lol