Transition Fakes

[YourFatZebra]

I don't wanna beat a dead horse if this has already been beaten...

But as someone who recently came to this board and spent all of UFC 2's lifespan playing it online, I personally find transition faking to be frustrating as all hell in these games.

I understand its place. I know why it's used, I just don't like that there is no sufficient counter. You have to just be like "Is that a transition?" and either not block the fake so you're available to block the real one, or attempt to block the fake, fail, and therefore be locked out of the actual transition.

See what makes this so annoying is that when you make one bad decision on the ground it seems to remove your ability to reverse for the remainder of that exchange til the position is changed or something. I've never really been sure what resets your ability to deny, I just know that it doesn't let you deny a transition if you already attempted to deny one and failed.

That makes sense on base when you're having two guys fight against each other with the games intended systems being used AS INTENDED.

But when they both start transition faking all over the place, in the clinch and on the ground, it becomes a frustrating guessing game that doesn't resemble actual grappling at all. There's no strategy, there's no skill, there's random guesswork and trying to manage input lag, online lag, all on top of this guy gaming the system and exploiting the denials.

Somehow we've gotten so deep into this rabbit hole that the devs themselves encourage this behavior, to the point its referenced in the in game tutorial.

I really think this is a toxic mindset, a horrible way to deal with this. Normalizing behavior that only exists to exploit the game mechanics just doesn't make any sense unless you WANT the community to be filled with the GSP grapple spammers it is.

Can we ever get some sort of actual way to defend against this? Perhaps not ending our ability to deny after failing one? I understand the reason that was implemented, but in practice it ends up just getting the player who either has a worse connection or isn't transition faking KO'd.

[Papadoc60]

Re: Transition Fakes

Let's be honest, if you have an issue with denial windows and most people do then you have to understand that transition faking is necessary for the ground and clinch at a higher level. To not like it or think it's faulty is one thing, but to suggest that it's not introducing another layer of strategy is totally false.


It's not about just wildly guessing, it's about knowing when to fake and when to transition after you made your opponent think you're going to do one or the other ( and add in the threat of TDs ) and it works fine for me, though I don't experience much lag related to the ground game as other people have complained about. My only issues with input so far are trying to throw strikes that aren't part of hard combos or entering the TD and clinches

[YourFatZebra]

Re: Transition Fakes

Let's be honest, if you have an issue with denial windows and most people do then you have to understand that transition faking is necessary for the ground and clinch at a higher level. To not like it or think it's faulty is one thing, but to suggest that it's not introducing another layer of strategy is totally false.


It's not about just wildly guessing, it's about knowing when to fake and when to transition after you made your opponent think you're going to do one or the other ( and add in the threat of TDs ) and it works fine for me, though I don't experience much lag related to the ground game as other people have complained about. My only issues with input so far are trying to throw strikes that aren't part of hard combos or entering the TD and clinches

You're overlooking my chief complaint, that the fakes by nature override the denial system and end up breaking down the whole experience.

It'd be different if we could deflect the fake the same way we can a transition, or if the fake didn't negate my ability to defend the transition. Half the time I know the dude is gonna fake, which way he's gonna do it, and which way he plans to transition. Because people are creatures of habit, they fall into patterns. But because of the way the denial system is set up, even with that foreknowledge I can not block the transition. Why? Because attempting to block the fake prevents me from doing so.

Changing that one thing would eliminate any aggravation stemmed from transition faking. You doing a fake shouldn't negate my ability to counter once you actually transition any more than me throwing a fake jab should negate your ability to block a jab thrown.

[Serengeti1]

Re: Transition Fakes

I agree that this is an issue. The thing is I think the whole system needs to be revamped to sort this out. If they were to make all fakes deniable then people would have no way of advancing position at the top level. People would just be blocking everything. Maybe making the denial window smaller would counteract this and make this change okay though.

[YourFatZebra]

Re: Transition Fakes

Even if they themselves are not deniable, they should at least not negate my ability to reverse transitions.

I think my example of the faint jab negating the ability to block a thrown jab illustrates this problem well. Literally wouldn't allow something this with any other game mechanic. Every thing else in the game they at least tried to implement a counter for. There's no reason that their faking a transition and my failing to stop that transition, a transition that never even happened, should then prevent me from denying any further. That just doesn't make any sense on a logic level or a game balance level.

[MysticJack541]

Re: Transition Fakes

This is one of my biggest problems with the grappling. This happens all the time at the higher levels of ranked. If you bite on a fake, the next transition is a guaranteed transition. So it becomes a mini-game on who can fake who, and fill up the meters. I really think a better posture system like UD3 can possibly help this issue.

Have 4 different "layers" for posturing, locked-down (when both fighters are in close and can only land insignificant GnP) Semi-postured ( the one from UD3 where the "lock-down" is broken and you can land short elbows and hammerfists, short punches ect...) Fully postured (where you can rain down heavy GnP) and finally the ability to just hold onto your opponent. You can do this from mount bottom in the current game, but I think it should be added to every position from both top and bottom.

Also you should be able to fluidly transition between these posture positions without filling a meter. This would add so much depth to the ground game, and give the player a lot more options to work with instead of just faking transitions over and over and hoping someone bites.

[iverson91]

Re: Transition Fakes

This is one of my biggest problems with the grappling. This happens all the time at the higher levels of ranked. If you bite on a fake, the next transition is a guaranteed transition. So it becomes a mini-game on who can fake who, and fill up the meters. I really think a better posture system like UD3 can possibly help this issue.

Have 4 different "layers" for posturing, locked-down (when both fighters are in close and can only land insignificant GnP) Semi-postured ( the one from UD3 where the "lock-down" is broken and you can land short elbows and hammerfists, short punches ect...) Fully postured (where you can rain down heavy GnP) and finally the ability to just hold onto your opponent. You can do this from mount bottom in the current game, but I think it should be added to every position from both top and bottom.

Also you should be able to fluidly transition between these posture positions without filling a meter. This would add so much depth to the ground game, and give the player a lot more options to work with instead of just faking transitions over and over and hoping someone bites.

100% agree

[Knuckledeep1980]

Re: Transition Fakes

Yeah, it looks ridiculous too. Guys twitching and doing the matrix on the floor, Is there even a stamina drain for this? I get the need for being able to fake, but it's so abnormal and needs something to punish the spamming of it, imo.

[fballturkey]

Re: Transition Fakes

So if transition fakes didn't work (and, if you could immediately block a different transition after blocking the fake, they wouldn't work), what would prevent someone from sitting on top for an entire round?

[kush land]

Re: Transition Fakes

i want more scrambles like the ones from back side control the ground feels so slow. how do u block a fake its a fake u cant block a faked punch the ground is a nightmare to make real and fun

[UFCFreak1220]

Re: Transition Fakes

Awesome post

[Pandam8nium]

Re: Transition Fakes

fakes looks awful, and are stupid, a guessing game in a try to be (cuz lag dont let you) reactive game...

[levren]

Re: Transition Fakes

Average players are able to deny any transition in full-guard top just relying on reaction.

Skilled players are able to do it in a lot more positions.

the only way to make a succesful transition against those players are the fakes.

Eliminating the cooldown on missed deny , would make the fakes useless and players could just deny everything on reaction from a good chunk of the positions.

[HereticGabriel]

Re: Transition Fakes

You're overlooking my chief complaint, that the fakes by nature override the denial system and end up breaking down the whole experience.

It'd be different if we could deflect the fake the same way we can a transition, or if the fake didn't negate my ability to defend the transition. Half the time I know the dude is gonna fake, which way he's gonna do it, and which way he plans to transition. Because people are creatures of habit, they fall into patterns. But because of the way the denial system is set up, even with that foreknowledge I can not block the transition. Why? Because attempting to block the fake prevents me from doing so.

Changing that one thing would eliminate any aggravation stemmed from transition faking. You doing a fake shouldn't negate my ability to counter once you actually transition any more than me throwing a fake jab should negate your ability to block a jab thrown.

If you know whys going to fake left, then go right. Why are you even trying to block the fake? I rarely try to block the full guard transition(often the fake used in full guard) if I see them go thrrr, I expect a get up/sweep 9(10 times, but a, prepred for an up or down denial. Trying to block a fake if you know itll be a fake is stupid.

Do fakes like dumb? **** yes, especially in some positions where they jig out or the fake stops you from even striking(postured full guard to full guard) but with the current grappling system, fakes are required. Try to fight anyone with even average ground skills and dont fake, good luck moving.

[Sivo]

Re: Transition Fakes

the problem comes with using fakes is certain ppl seem to be reading my mind. i dont mind ppl reading my patterns but in some cases i will transition 4 or 5 times in a row and get blocked(leaving stamina to regen) and then fake and transition and they still catch the transition, this feels more buggy than someone actually reading my pattern. It could be they have the best internet and ridiculous reflexes and can just wait until the end of the transition to figure out if its a fake or not but this seems too common for that.