Why does the Jab Straight obliterate block?

[Morgan Monkman]

You can land destructive kicks and huge punches and the block will barely move.

Yet you land a jab and a straight and the block is gone. I understand its probably a design feature for breaking the block but man, its just way to easy to break the block this way.

[RetractedMonkey]

Why does the Jab Straight obliterate block?

You have to land at least four straights to break down the block enough for a power strike. I would assume a power strike by itself would break down the block more than two straights but generally you don’t combo with a head kick at the beginning.

Also, it is super easy, most of my wins have come by 1212 head kick since the second day after release. But, now people are realizing it’s also just as easy to time a duck after the last straight. So who knows how the meta is going to evolve. As of now we have a complex series of reads that have to be made when breaking block at high-level play.


Sent from my iPhone using Operation Sports

[Boiler569]

Re: Why does the Jab Straight obliterate block?

You have to land at least four straights to break down the block enough for a power strike. I would assume a power strike by itself would break down the block more than two straights but generally you don’t combo with a head kick at the beginning.

Also, it is super easy, most of my wins have come by 1212 head kick since the second day after release. But, now people are realizing it’s also just as easy to time a duck after the last straight. So who knows how the meta is going to evolve. As of now we have a complex series of reads that have to be made when breaking block at high-level play.


Sent from my iPhone using Operation Sports

Yup I remember you taking me out in the first round with that combo during the 10-hour trial on Xbox lol it was some good stuff

That said, I still think the block-breaking needs some major tuning.

An example of a great combo that SHOULD break the block --- but only knocks the bar down by half at most ---- would be something like:

Lead Uppercut, rear hook, lead hook, and rear straight ---- 4 strikes; natural combos; alternating left/right and round/straight ----

IMO that should break the block much more easily than 1212

but it's like half as effective in-game, trust me I know

[RetractedMonkey]

Re: Why does the Jab Straight obliterate block?

Yup I remember you taking me out in the first round with that combo during the 10-hour trial on Xbox lol it was some good stuff

That said, I still think the block-breaking needs some major tuning.

An example of a great combo that SHOULD break the block --- but only knocks the bar down by half at most ---- would be something like:

Lead Uppercut, rear hook, lead hook, and rear straight ---- 4 strikes; natural combos; alternating left/right and round/straight ----

IMO that should break the block much more easily than 1212

but it's like half as effective in-game, trust me I know

A good thing to do for a work around is land that combo and then throw a big power strike. Even if they aren't rocked anymore by the time you get to it, you will rerock them because their guard is so low. That combo you mentioned is actually more effective nowadays because often opponents will start to sway in random directions to avoid the 1-2-1-2.

[Morgan Monkman]

Re: Why does the Jab Straight obliterate block?

I don't see any defensible argument for a 1-2 breaking the block more than a power strike.

Uppercuts are some of the best punches IRL to sneak through a block yet GL doing that in this game.

Yet if you are Conor Mcgregor you can literally break a block with a 1-2.

[RetractedMonkey]

Re: Why does the Jab Straight obliterate block?

I don't see any defensible argument for a 1-2 breaking the block more than a power strike.

Uppercuts are some of the best punches IRL to sneak through a block yet GL doing that in this game.

Yet if you are Conor Mcgregor you can literally break a block with a 1-2.

They don't though. You can throw two head kicks in a row and do more damage than 1-2-1-2, but they don't come out as fast, which allows recovery. That's what I'm trying to explain. As a gameplay mechanic, it works near perfectly.

[Phillyboi207]

Re: Why does the Jab Straight obliterate block?

They don't though. You can throw two head kicks in a row and do more damage than 1-2-1-2, but they don't come out as fast, which allows recovery. That's what I'm trying to explain. As a gameplay mechanic, it works near perfectly.

It doesnt really make sense. 1-2-1-2 are all coming from the same angle and should be easy to block.

Mixing in hooks,uppercuts,overhands should be what leads to then block deteriorating

[RetractedMonkey]

Re: Why does the Jab Straight obliterate block?

It doesnt really make sense. 1-2-1-2 are all coming from the same angle and should be easy to block.

Mixing in hooks,uppercuts,overhands should be what leads to then block deteriorating

They are easy to block, which is why they don't take down the guard as much. The guard break comes from the power of the strike at the end AND the fact that it's coming from an angle OTHER than straight on. This really is a giant misunderstanding of the break system.

But I do understand about throwing 1-4-5's how they're all coming from different angles should break down the guard as well, but from a gameplay perspective, those are all fast strikes that don't have the same power as an overhand or headkick. In order to allow reasonable survival rates, you can't have a super fast 1-4-5 instantly break the block like 4 strikes followed by a powerful one. There is no time to react in that scenario.

[TehFlame]

Re: Why does the Jab Straight obliterate block?

I play boxing-heavy fighters like Dan Henderson, so I like to end with an overhand right. jab jab jab until low and overhand is my go to, but I've been trying out 1-2 which breaks the guard quickly but even when the guard's low, they block the overhand. Can anyone explain why jab -> overhand works but not 1-2 -> overhand? It failed on me like 3 times in a row. I wish we knew details on how guard breaks work

[Boiler569]

Re: Why does the Jab Straight obliterate block?

They are easy to block, which is why they don't take down the guard as much. The guard break comes from the power of the strike at the end AND the fact that it's coming from an angle OTHER than straight on. This really is a giant misunderstanding of the break system.

But I do understand about throwing 1-4-5's how they're all coming from different angles should break down the guard as well, but from a gameplay perspective, those are all fast strikes that don't have the same power as an overhand or headkick. In order to allow reasonable survival rates, you can't have a super fast 1-4-5 instantly break the block like 4 strikes followed by a powerful one. There is no time to react in that scenario.

I would argue that it's much easier to land

Jab, Straight, Jab, Straight

as compared to

Lead Uppercut, Rear Hook, Lead Hook, Rear Straight



The second combo should break the block more quickly because:

1) Tougher to land those strikes (shorter range on the hooks/uppercuts)

2) Tougher to input the strikes / more complex inputs

3) Most importantly, it switches things up, not just Left Right, but also Straight vs. Round

Without going too far down a rabbit hole, I think uppercuts should be their "own" type of strike, rather than a "straight" strike. Perhaps uppercuts and flying knees get their own lol

Uppercut really can expose holes in a guard (especially MMA) --- and has very short range --- so definitely should be a Great Option for breaking down the guard. Not a silver bullet or anything, but definitely ought to take a good chunk of the block power if it's combined with a couple round or straight strikes.


Now --- if a 3-strike 'advanced' combo like 1-4-5 breaks block as quickly as a 4-strike 'basic' combo like 1-2-1-2 --- we might be getting somewhere.




I'd also like to say that jab/straight combos certainly seem to go just as fast as hook/uppercut combos. So if you think there's not enough time to react to hook/uppercuts, there definitely isn't enough time to react to 1-2-1-2

(also I really feel that the double/triple JAB in particular is OP for block breaking. Against a top 50 guy who always fights HW --- he can land 2 or 3 jabs from Overeem and essentially destroy my block without even throwing a straight. I'm slightly exaggurating, but not really, especially if you are in round 3+ and aren't at 100% block power/etc)


Finally --- I do know one way to combat 1-2-1-2 'spam' is head movement of course lol but still, that's not a cure-all for this block breaking mechanic by any means IMO

[RetractedMonkey]

Re: Why does the Jab Straight obliterate block?

What you guys don't understand is the 1212 DOESN'T break it faster than hooks/uppers. The POWER strike at the end is what does the majority of the breaking. I don't know how to explain it any better. If you threw a 1-4-5 and followed it up with a kick it would do the SAME thing.

[stephengreen]

Re: Why does the Jab Straight obliterate block?

GPD explained that they were going for a cover up mechanic. Guys get hit from one way and they tend to cover up that way, boom, uppercut or kick leaks through. He said they don't have the animations to support that right now. Check his post history.

[bram]

Re: Why does the Jab Straight obliterate block?

No quick strike and power strikes difference to decay block; combos are good but breaking blocks on low stamina with combos seems odd to me when opponent has same low stamina as mine.
I'd like to think you can break blocks without using combos.but it would not be as much fun as it now.

[Boiler569]

Re: Why does the Jab Straight obliterate block?

What you guys don't understand is the 1212 DOESN'T break it faster than hooks/uppers. The POWER strike at the end is what does the majority of the breaking. I don't know how to explain it any better. If you threw a 1-4-5 and followed it up with a kick it would do the SAME thing.

1) 1212 has much longer range and is much easier to pull off --- so it should be LESS EFFECTIVE than 1-4-5, not 'the same'

2) That said ---- I still don't believe that 1212 is same as 1-4-5

Maybe I will do some testing.

But, I have landed (well, they were blocked lol) 3 or 4 strike power combos and the guy still has about 40% of his blocking bar. You can throw an overhand or a head kick and get SOME bleedthru when they have 40% block --- MAYBE MAYBE MAYBE a KO if their head health is really really low (late rounds) --- maybe.

Whereas, from what I've experienced at least, 1212 will leave your blocking bar at like 20%, and a head kick will lead to insta-KO even in first couple minutes.


Does that make sense? lol

I understand it's the final Haymaker/Head Kick that does the damage.

My gripe is that it's way easier (and more effective? at least 'equally effective but I do'nt believe it is) to drop block meter using 1212 compared to power combo.

I don't think we need to nerf 1212 block breaking; but DO need to boost power combo block breaking.



As I'm sure you know, having your block power at 40% vs. 20% makes a HUGE difference in how much damage that final blow does.

Like, the difference between an Active Knockdown and a Walk Off KO