I ran a quick scoring logic experiment.

[Plebn]

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So there was a thread here a few days ago discussing scoring logic & it's been a cause for concern for me since the release, I have lost so many decisions due to people exploiting sub attempts that the know they can not get. So i decided to make a video to prove my point. This one failed submission clearly out weighs 2 significant strikes, 3 total landed and 6 blocked strikes, as well as almost 90 seconds of control with 1 take down. Nothing else happened in the fight.

[johnmangala]

Re: I ran a quick scoring logic experiment.

Interesting, didn't know subs scored so well. GNP and control should score more too.

[Skynet]

Re: I ran a quick scoring logic experiment.

Thanks a ton for the video and concise feedback! I'm going to look into this right away and hopefully we can find the cause of this imbalance.

If we do in fact find something funny is going on, I would hope to get it fixed for the next patch

[fballturkey]

Re: I ran a quick scoring logic experiment.

Good work. Subs felt overscored but I didn’t have the numbers to back up the hunch.

[Evil97]

Re: I ran a quick scoring logic experiment.

Thanks for taking to the time to experiment. I have been meaning to do it but only get a couple hours in when the kids go to bed so it's not something I want to waste. Sub attempts are so overly scored it drives me crazy.

[Plebn]

Re: I ran a quick scoring logic experiment.

Thanks a ton for the video and concise feedback! I'm going to look into this right away and hopefully we can find the cause of this imbalance.

If we do in fact find something funny is going on, I would hope to get it fixed for the next patch

This is great news. I would suggest that submissions should score very very little, if at all, until the final gate of the submission. This would be harder to balance with 1, 2 & 3 gate subs, though.

[EarvGotti]

Re: I ran a quick scoring logic experiment.

This is great news. I would suggest that submissions should score very very little, if at all, until the final gate of the submission. This would be harder to balance with 1, 2 & 3 gate subs, though.

I agree. Either make submission denial windows much larger or make sub attempts only score anything at all if they make it to the last gate.

[Boiler569]

Re: I ran a quick scoring logic experiment.

To the last gate --- or at least, get past a couple of gates before it counts for much on scorecard

Otherwise perhaps it just counts as 'control time'

"In Real Life" ---- if someone grabbed a Kimura, but didn't advance it at all for a couple minutes --- would judges give them tons of points? Or consider it more of a stall technique?

I'm not sure the answer haha

If you get someone into a sub, and it fails, you should probably get rewarded some, but definitely not a ton.

This video was interesting. I definitely had a feeling failed subs were very important to judges and it looks to be the case.

(Aren't the three judges also 'different' insofar as one of them really prefers Grappling; one Striking; and one is a blend? That's what it was in UFC 2 I believe I heard a dev state....same in UFC 3?)

[WhoDatNinja]

Re: I ran a quick scoring logic experiment.

Submissions should all have at least one gate where if they escape during that gate they end up in a dominant position. Scoring for subs should not count at all until they get to that gate. This would at least require a bit of risk on the part of the attacker, instead of just free points.

[Solid_Altair]

Re: I ran a quick scoring logic experiment.

Fantastic work, mate!!!

[chia]

Re: I ran a quick scoring logic experiment.

To the last gate --- or at least, get past a couple of gates before it counts for much on scorecard

Otherwise perhaps it just counts as 'control time'

"In Real Life" ---- if someone grabbed a Kimura, but didn't advance it at all for a couple minutes --- would judges give them tons of points? Or consider it more of a stall technique?

I'm not sure the answer haha

If you get someone into a sub, and it fails, you should probably get rewarded some, but definitely not a ton.

This video was interesting. I definitely had a feeling failed subs were very important to judges and it looks to be the case.

(Aren't the three judges also 'different' insofar as one of them really prefers Grappling; one Striking; and one is a blend? That's what it was in UFC 2 I believe I heard a dev state....same in UFC 3?)

It does depend on how close to finishing the submission the person is in relation to what type of scoring they would get for the attempt. The submission attempt without real progress is judged closely similar to how a takedown with no progression is judged.

It's completely off in the game but the scoring in the game is worse than just giving too much credit for submission attempts.

[aliojin]

Re: I ran a quick scoring logic experiment.

It's not that hard deny submissions, so I think it's fine submissions score hight.

Right now I fough with Ronda Rousey against Cyborg. Ronda has 84 points on striking and he has not high kicks. So he has nothing to do against Cyborg standing up. I finally won because I get the takedowns and submissions attemps after eating a lot of shots.

So if you don't want to get so points sof submissions attemps then make submissions easier. My sense is in UFC 3 submissions are a lot of harder than in UFC 2.