Backing up needs to stop killing your GA.

[RetractedMonkey]

This is one of the most counterintuitive mechanics in the whole game. Why does backing up give your opponent so much grapple advantage? I encourage everyone to go into practice mode with the meter on and see. It jumps 50% sometimes.

Moving forward should give the opponent GA because you’re actively committing your weight that way. Backing up gives you distance to react and also places your hips in position to sprawl. You should be gaining GA for back peddling.

Currently, moving forward against a grappler is suicide because of the ridiculous double leg, but moving backwards allows them to shoot the double from halfway across the cage and they get even MORE GA. So the most effective strategy against a grappler is now level with the least effective.

Committing to strikes allows the grappler to level change and use your forward momentum against you, but in game you have an advantage. Honestly, I think this is part of the problem with the single leg being too deniable as well. People come straight forward and miss a strike, but they weren’t backing up so their GA is too high to be taken down.

A grappler should have to walk you down and corner you in the cage to get the takedown. But until then, the backpeddler should have GA advantage. How many times do you see straight up open takedowns in the center of the cage in real life now? This goes hand in hand with the cage positions not being utilized nearly enough. It should be the MOST frequent position you find yourself in before getting taken down. If that was the case, the deniable single legs from the center of the cage don’t seem as bad. Just like a striker utilizes footwork to corner someone and be effective, so too must the grappler. And right now the options are skewed.


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[GameplayDevUFC]

Re: Backing up needs to stop killing your GA.

This is one of the most counterintuitive mechanics in the whole game. Why does backing up give your opponent so much grapple advantage? I encourage everyone to go into practice mode with the meter on and see. It jumps 50% sometimes.

Moving forward should give the opponent GA because you’re actively committing your weight that way. Backing up gives you distance to react and also places your hips in position to sprawl. You should be gaining GA for back peddling.

Currently, moving forward against a grappler is suicide because of the ridiculous double leg, but moving backwards allows them to shoot the double from halfway across the cage and they get even MORE GA. So the most effective strategy against a grappler is now level with the least effective.

Committing to strikes allows the grappler to level change and use your forward momentum against you, but in game you have an advantage. Honestly, I think this is part of the problem with the single leg being too deniable as well. People come straight forward and miss a strike, but they weren’t backing up so their GA is too high to be taken down.

A grappler should have to walk you down and corner you in the cage to get the takedown. But until then, the backpeddler should have GA advantage. How many times do you see straight up open takedowns in the center of the cage in real life now? This goes hand in hand with the cage positions not being utilized nearly enough. It should be the MOST frequent position you find yourself in before getting taken down. If that was the case, the deniable single legs from the center of the cage don’t seem as bad. Just like a striker utilizes footwork to corner someone and be effective, so too must the grappler. And right now the options are skewed.


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Moving backwards doesn't lose you GA, having your back against the cage does.

[RetractedMonkey]

Re: Backing up needs to stop killing your GA.

Moving backwards doesn't lose you GA, having your back against the cage does.

There must be a visual issue with the GA meter if that’s the case or the distance of being considered “against the cage” is too great. Maybe I’m insane and misremembering it though. Maybe someone could go into practice mode real quick and try it out or I’ll do it when I get home. I was sure I saw the meter jump to the other side when backing up.

In any event, you should definitely lose GA up against the cage, but gain it before reaching it.


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[johnmangala]

Re: Backing up needs to stop killing your GA.

Moving backwards doesn't lose you GA, having your back against the cage does.

I understand this but for fighters like Silva and Woodley constantly working off the fense, they use the fense to defend TDs.

[neyney00]

Re: Backing up needs to stop killing your GA.

Then more takedown attempts close to the cage need to result in the cage clinch animations.

[Boiler569]

Re: Backing up needs to stop killing your GA.

Then more takedown attempts close to the cage need to result in the cage clinch animations.

winner!

[RetractedMonkey]

Re: Backing up needs to stop killing your GA.

Moving backwards doesn't lose you GA, having your back against the cage does.

I figured out what it was that makes it go down. I would block every time I backed up. Blocking giving some GA to your opponent makes sense from a realism perspective, but considering you have to press the block button to avoid a takedown it doesn't make much sense. I understand that if you hold block and flick the stick immediately, it does nothing to your GA, but often times you will block and hover on the stick ready for a takedown. This seems like a flaw in the design.

Backing up should definitely grant you GA and the more I think about it, so should being against the cage. You have more GA because the cage is there to catch you. The cage issue can be solved by making all takedowns interact with the cage when up close like most people want.

[Boiler569]

Re: Backing up needs to stop killing your GA.

I understand that if you hold block and flick the stick immediately, it does nothing to your GA, but often times you will block and hover on the stick ready for a takedown. This seems like a flaw in the design.

Designed very well IMO

If you camp on block; you lose GA

If you camp on pre-deny of TDD/Clinch; you don't block, and are in a 'slightly vulnerable' state with respect to strikes (not sure if that second part is true but should be )

No Free Lunches! lol

[RetractedMonkey]

Re: Backing up needs to stop killing your GA.

Designed very well IMO

If you camp on block; you lose GA

If you camp on pre-deny of TDD/Clinch; you don't block, and are in a 'slightly vulnerable' state with respect to strikes (not sure if that second part is true but should be )

No Free Lunches! lol

This is a viable response. I actually agree. How do you feel about backpeddling gaining you GA (unless you're blocking) and all takedowns near the cage setting you there?

[Boiler569]

Re: Backing up needs to stop killing your GA.

This is a viable response. I actually agree. How do you feel about backpeddling gaining you GA (unless you're blocking) and all takedowns near the cage setting you there?

I could turn that into a 10 paragraph response but I'll try and be succinct

I am OK with backing up giving you a slight amount of GA *if* at the same time it also increases the chance you will be pushed against the cage.

Your momentum is going backwards, so you'd think it should be easier to push you back toward the cage, as well.

So you have a better chance of sprawling-out from a single/double; but you may need "more runway" in order to do it. And if you run out of runway, you're put up against the cage.

Each fighter's Stats and Perks should make a difference too. Maybe this would be a buff for the Grinder perk for example (slightly more likely to end up in clinch against the cage if you have that perk)

Just some brainstorming

I will say that backing up is an advantage in of itself if you're trying to avoid TD/Clinch The space you make is good reward itself!

(Well that's assuming the double leg across the cage glitch isn't active, which it is LOL)

I am 110% for more complex and nuanced clinch and takedown game --- and in particular, although it's complex, some sort of new Scramble Mechanic would be very interesting. To help blend striking, clinch, and wrestling into one seemless interaction



But my creed of No Free Lunches must be applied to everything for balance's sake lol

[Dave_S]

Re: Backing up needs to stop killing your GA.

Moving backwards doesn't lose you GA, having your back against the cage does.

Can there be a perk for judokas when there back is to cage if opponent does anything were their body moves more into fighter with back on cage the judoka fighter instantly gets good grapple advantage amount based on perk level, so they can do a momentum throw?