Patches made the game worse, well- good bye

[johnmangala]

Re: Patches made the game worse, well- good bye

I think some people want the game to take away spam for them, when for the most part it's on them to **** it down.

There are lots of tools to do that with head movement.

For anyone saying we should add a stamina tax to straight head movement, imagine if we did that to high block as well.

It's a similar thing to taxing head movement. You'd be completely removing the ability to use a defensive tactic to get out of a stamina deficit.

You think pressure fighting is bad now?

Imagine what it would be like if even defense drained stamina.

Sent from my Pixel using Operation Sports mobile app

Pressure fighting is based on the armor provided by the head movement, it is the problem.

It has little risk. It's riskier now than before, but still not risky enough.

Block with a slight long term tax wouldnt be bad. Footwork should be the priority, but right now it's head movement > block > footwork



People get away with what Silva is doing more often than not in this game.

[EarvGotti]

Re: Patches made the game worse, well- good bye

I think some people want the game to take away spam for them, when for the most part it's on them to **** it down.

There are lots of tools to do that with head movement.

For anyone saying we should add a stamina tax to straight head movement, imagine if we did that to high block as well.

It's a similar thing to taxing head movement. You'd be completely removing the ability to use a defensive tactic to get out of a stamina deficit.

You think pressure fighting is bad now?

Imagine what it would be like if even defense drained stamina.

Sent from my Pixel using Operation Sports mobile app

I agree 100% GPD.

People aren't thinking about the defensive aspect of head movement. That's its number 1 purpose.

Yes guys are spamming head movement to initiate OFFENSE, but that can be countered easily and it's all about frame advantage. You have to be the one to punish the head movement spammers.....the game shouldn't do that for you.

A lot of people don't understand the frame data and this is probably the root of the head movement complaints....but at the same time i don't really want you to release the data yet because its fun punishing sway spammers lol XD

Honestly, the data doesn't even need to be known to figure this stuff out. I figured the counters out by just spending time in practice mode strike recording and seeing what works or doesn't work in different situations.

[chia]

Re: Patches made the game worse, well- good bye

I think some people want the game to take away spam for them, when for the most part it's on them to **** it down.

There are lots of tools to do that with head movement.

For anyone saying we should add a stamina tax to straight head movement, imagine if we did that to high block as well.

It's a similar thing to taxing head movement. You'd be completely removing the ability to use a defensive tactic to get out of a stamina deficit.

You think pressure fighting is bad now?

Imagine what it would be like if even defense drained stamina.

Sent from my Pixel using Operation Sports mobile app

It (sway spamming) should be stamina taxed just as blocks and throwing strikes that are blocked should tax the aggressor. Not just the silly missed strikes taxing. The stamina mismanagement is still a huge deal. Standing and on the ground.

You once told me to try it in real life. You should slip and throw punches into a heavy bag for just :30 and get out 30 strikes and see how you feel then try just slipping and swaying and ducking for :30 without strikes. They shouldn't be taxed the same but the lack of penalty placed on it makes for a ridiculously silly meta.

[johnmangala]

Re: Patches made the game worse, well- good bye

I agree with that but with it being as slow as it is now, I think a stamina tax would be ridiculous.

Maybe a decrease in power as the fight goes on. That could already be in the game, I've yet to get into the later rounds with a duck/sway player.

It still has it's power, in fact single slip strikes have more power.

A stamina tax would just eliminate the excessive head movement .

[johnmangala]

Re: Patches made the game worse, well- good bye

I agree 100% GPD.

People aren't thinking about the defensive aspect of head movement. That's its number 1 purpose.

Yes guys are spamming head movement to initiate OFFENSE, but that can be countered easily and it's all about frame advantage. You have to be the one to punish the head movement spammers.....the game shouldn't do that for you.

A lot of people don't understand the frame data and this is probably the root of the head movement complaints....but at the same time i don't really want you to release the data yet because its fun punishing sway spammers lol XD

Honestly, the data doesn't even need to be known to figure this stuff out. I figured the counters out by just spending time in practice mode strike recording and seeing what works or doesn't work in different situations.

Man this is terrible. You go on about having the solutions but if your solution is true enough people knowing it shouldn't stop it's effectiveness.

[EarvGotti]

Re: Patches made the game worse, well- good bye

But lunges drain stamina and they’re defense

The stamina tax for head movement we’re asking for would be very minute. Just to punish those that over use it.

The thing that me and GPD are trying to get across is that people who over use head movement CAN be punished by YOU already. You just have to counter at the right time. The game shouldn't punish them, you should.

This game is very competitive and i wouldn't wanna see the game holding players' hands and giving you a get out of jail free card if you're not capitalizing on the opportunities given to you. I'm just saying that the counters are there and they've been made 10x easier after this patch dropped.

[Phillyboi207]

Re: Patches made the game worse, well- good bye

I agree 100% GPD.

People aren't thinking about the defensive aspect of head movement. That's its number 1 purpose.

Yes guys are spamming head movement to initiate OFFENSE, but that can be countered easily and it's all about frame advantage. You have to be the one to punish the head movement spammers.....the game shouldn't do that for you.

A lot of people don't understand the frame data and this is probably the root of the head movement complaints....but at the same time i don't really want you to release the data yet because its fun punishing sway spammers lol XD

Honestly, the data doesn't even need to be known to figure this stuff out. I figured the counters out by just spending time in practice mode strike recording and seeing what works or doesn't work in different situations.

I think the issue here is you’re arguing for balance sake. It’s a lot more balanced in terms of overall gameplay. It’s not balanced in terms
of how head movement works in real life.

But honestly I give up on it at this point. I’ll just cross my fingers that we’ll get 8 way slips/ smaller slips in the next game

[TheJamesKraus]

Re: Patches made the game worse, well- good bye

It still has it's power, in fact single slip strikes have more power.

A stamina tax would just eliminate the excessive head movement .

Because the most powerful shots are the ones you dont see coming... look at McGregor-Diaz II that is literally what happened in that fight.

Its on you to not become so predictable or to read your opponent enough to know what they are doing. If they are swaying alot, they have to be swaying to one particular side??

[Phillyboi207]

Re: Patches made the game worse, well- good bye

The thing that me and GPD are trying to get across is that people who over use head movement CAN be punished by YOU already. You just have to counter at the right time. The game shouldn't punish them, you should.

This game is very competitive and i wouldn't wanna see the game holding players' hands and giving you a get out of jail free card if you're not capitalizing on the opportunities given to you. I'm just saying that the counters are there and they've been made 10x easier after this patch dropped.

That’s not the issue. Lots of stuff can be beat if you’re good enough. I dont play this game so I can become Kenetic and wreck everyone. I play it because I love MMA and the strategy behind it. The way head movement currently works doesnt reflect real life. It’s not holding someone hands to ask for stamina drain if someone is flicking the RS to move their head all over the place.

Is it easy to beat? Sure. Is it realistic? NO. And that’s my issue.

[johnmangala]

Re: Patches made the game worse, well- good bye

Because the most powerful shots are the ones you dont see coming... look at McGregor-Diaz II that is literally what happened in that fight.

Its on you to not become so predictable or to read your opponent enough to know what they are doing. If they are swaying alot, they have to be swaying to one particular side??

This isn't my point.

I am saying the head movement provides all the armor and protection of lunges without any of the tax.

It is the basis of why ducking uppercuts and constant sways (which is still prevalent) became so common.

[TheJamesKraus]

Re: Patches made the game worse, well- good bye

This isn't my point.

I am saying the head movement provides all the armor and protection of lunges without any of the tax.

It is the basis of why ducking uppercuts and constant sways (which is still prevalent) became so common.

But it isnt complete protection like you are making it seem...

They can only move their head in one direction at a time.

[GameplayDevUFC]

Re: Patches made the game worse, well- good bye

It (sway spamming) should be stamina taxed just as blocks and throwing strikes that are blocked should tax the aggressor. Not just the silly missed strikes taxing. The stamina mismanagement is still a huge deal. Standing and on the ground.

You once told me to try it in real life. You should slip and throw punches into a heavy bag for just :30 and get out 30 strikes and see how you feel then try just slipping and swaying and ducking for :30 without strikes. They shouldn't be taxed the same but the lack of penalty placed on it makes for a ridiculously silly meta.

Try slipping and throwing strikes for 30 secs in the game after the patch and tell me what happens.

[EarvGotti]

Re: Patches made the game worse, well- good bye

Man this is terrible. You go on about having the solutions but if your solution is true enough people knowing it shouldn't stop it's effectiveness.

Ok, im sorry if it comes off that way. But this isn't really some secret knowledge that nobody but insiders can find out. Like i said, i picked up on the counters just by spending time in practice mode and strike recording to beat certain combos.

I think the issue here is you’re arguing for balance sake. It’s a lot more balanced in terms of overall gameplay. It’s not balanced in terms
of how head movement works in real life.

But honestly I give up on it at this point. I’ll just cross my fingers that we’ll get 8 way slips/ smaller slips in the next game

That's arguable man. Different fighters have different styles. Frankie and Cruz use a ton of head movement.

I agree that most MMA fighters don't use a lot of head movement...but that doesn't mean the tools shouldn't be there if someone wants to fight with that style. Frankie and Cruz both use a lot of head movement and they have some of the best cardio in the UFC.

GPD is saying that a stamina tax on head movement would be crushing for defense and i agree. Could you imagine a pressure fighter coming at you non stop breaking down your block over and over? On top of that, if you use head movement to evade his strikes, YOU get a stamina tax every single time you get defensive. Your stamina would be gone by the 3rd round if you weren't already knocked out cold.

[johnmangala]

Re: Patches made the game worse, well- good bye

But it isnt complete protection like you are making it seem...

They can only move their head in one direction at a time.

Stationary head movement allows for movement quickly in any of the directions and flowing between them. Really powerful tactic when used right, but has no tax like lunges.

[johnmangala]

Re: Patches made the game worse, well- good bye

Ok, im sorry if it comes off that way. But this isn't really some secret knowledge that nobody but insiders can find out. Like i said, i picked up on the counters just by spending time in practice mode and strike recording to beat certain combos.

I am saying if you have information that you know can help people, you shouldn't hoard it as if it's some secret strategy that will go away if everyone found it.

Like I said if your solution is a true solution it wouldn't lose its effectiveness.