Grappling changes you would like for UFC 4

[Zeta Reticulan1]

Grappling changes you would like for UFC 4

[MysticJack541]

Re: Grappling changes you would like for UFC 4

-Add shrimping, ground movement
-More various ground and pound animations, also better animations that look like i'm actually trying to hurt someone
-Better cage interaction, using the fence to get up, seated cage position
-Better sub system, (cough cough.... EA MMA)
-No more constant stamina management (faster grappling exchanges)
-Add in more positions, body triangle, butterfly guard ect...
- A better submission chaining system (cough cough.... UD3)
- Completley rework the grappling so it's not based on constant fakes, and if you bite on a fake the other person gets an automatic transition
-More takedown animations, blast doubles ect..
-Takedown struggles
-Takedown chaining, switch from a double to single, vice versa,


- a scramble system, lets say a players using Chad Mendes blast doubles me (Aldo) and takes me down, I have an option to scramble backup to my feet, or go for a reversal as soon as I hit the canvas, But the Mendes player has an option fight back and gain a better position, or I could do nothing and except the takedown and end up in full guard instead risking a scramble failure which results in the Mendes player getting side control. This is a general idea I came up with, I don't know how it would be implemented, but it would add a whole new layer to grappling, not just takedown scrambles either, reversal scrambles, and sub failure scrambles, fighter rating could play a factor as well, somebody like Tim Elliott scrambles like an egg, others don't.

This one not everyone will agree with, but it's my personal opinion..... Get rid of the meter grappling and return to turn based, or even some new sort of system.


Edit: I forgot actual TKO system (cough cough.... UD3) this also applies to the striking.

Another edit: On the scramble system, certain scramble positions could open up a submission opportunity, like a guillotine, or a RNC, I guess an example is UD3 when you stuffed a takedown attempt you could go for a guillotine or a knee/uppercut

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[doubleblastdubble]

Re: Grappling changes you would like for UFC 4

get rid of meter filling, period

even if you want the actual mechanics to function the same, the meter filling is just too immersion breaking and looks like a mobile phone game when you're grappling.

add all the positions that were in UD3, steal the wrestling system from UD3, make strikes on the ground and in the CLINCH useful. Make it so that you can exit clinches while striking, make it so that you can shoot for underhooks. Make more takedown variety. The single leg takedown right now is just a high crotch and can still be countered by a guillotine. give us real single finishes. Let us have positional wrestling.. if I don't finish the single let me hold the position and decide what to do from there. It happens all the time in fighting and wrestling. If I get in on your leg, I'm not gonna just let it go because I couldn't finish. I'll hold that **** until im gassed. that should be an option.

[DaisukEasy]

Re: Grappling changes you would like for UFC 4

For this thread to gain any kind of traction you're going to have to explain the UD3 grappling in detail for those of us who've never played it..

[MysticJack541]

Re: Grappling changes you would like for UFC 4

For this thread to gain any kind of traction you're going to have to explain the UD3 grappling in detail for those of us who've never played it..

UD3's grappling was a much more fluid and realistic MMA experience. You could posture more freely and transition with much more fluidity. The takedown system involved a "struggle" both fighters would spin the stick and whoever was faster would win, BUT fighter stats did play a role, and not every takedown attempt had a struggle, if you timed someone throwing a strike perfectley you would get an automatic takedown, on the opposite end you could pre deny and end up in sprawl or have an opportunity to go for a guillotine or a knee/strike.
Also sometimes a takedown attempt would end up in a clinch. Honestly UD3's grappling was very in depth and it would take forever to explain it, you kind of have to play it to fully understand, I recommend watching Martial Minds recent video about why he doesn't like the grappling in EA UFC 3, he shows the difference between UD3 and EA3.

All I can really say is that UD3 was way more realistic and fun representation of grappling in MMA. In my opinion EA UFC 3 functions almost like a pure submission grappling match.

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[Zeta Reticulan1]

Re: Grappling changes you would like for UFC 4

For this thread to gain any kind of traction you're going to have to explain the UD3 grappling in detail for those of us who've never played it..

Here’s an old thread with info and a video showing some of the Undisputed 3 grappling. Miss seeing this poster around here:

https://forums.operationsports.com/f...ing-video.html

[OPSPunk]

Re: Grappling changes you would like for UFC 4

Ground Positioning
1. more positions. But every fighter doesn't need to have the ability to do all of these positions. (buttefly guard, lockdown half guard, z-guard,close guard, open guard, high mount, low mount, half guard or even side control holding the opponent arm behind his back so they can't defend strikes (Kevin Lee, Khabib, DC and Brock have done this quite well, front headlock standing, cage positions (I could go on forever about those)) .
2. All positions should not require transitions (or implement major and minor) Ex. high mount and low mount.
3. I DONT want UD3 turn based system we will immediately regret that system
4. I want multiple system on the ground. Every position should not have the same system necessarily. The guard game should be waaaay more dynamic than being in bottom mount. Consider using different control schemes for defense and offense maybe the d-pad for defense and the right stick for offense.
5. Add strike sways from bottom.

Takedown
6. Side control from takedowns should be much more rare
7. depending on stats, momentum, speed of denial, stamina and the type of strike being thrown by a defender takedown attempts should end up in 3 phases Denial/pushoff, struggle (which if failed leads to a sprawl position), or auto takedown. That struggle state might play out like a 1 or 2 gate fast moving sub system.
8. Some hi level wrestlers should be able to use a secondary shot in the struggle system at the cost of stamina. similar to the way a top submission grappler could
9. The ability to pull guard
10. The ability to bait someone down to the ground when knockeddown. instead of being forced up. Think fedor vs Werdum.
11. No more flying armbars. Even Rhonda never did this. I have never once seen this in a high level MMA fight
12. half guard sweep to single leg (only for Demian Maia or maybe Werdum)

Ground striking
13. add knees to side back mount.
14. side control elbows are OP
15. allow for more powerful elbows to opponent while in bottom guard if you are allowed to push head down.

Submission
16. More from half guard
17. More from less stamina loss if it is stopped earlier.
18. the ability to give up on a submission to save stamina

Clinch (head clinches)
19. Add standing front headlock
20. the ability to punch out or move out of single collar tie.
21 the ability to engage avoid moving out of it by moving closer
22. Moving having different properties. Thai clinch moving away will allow for more powerful strikes and the opponent the opportunity to get a front headlock. Reduces the ability to be taken down from that position. The aggressor wants to move away. Moving forward makes it easier to grapple out of it and reduces strike power. Increases ease of a takedown.
23. Moving away in single collar increases chance of escape and allows you to punch out of it.
24 elbows should not lead to a rock but uppercuts can rock and lead to KO

Body Clinch
25. Just make blocking transitions make sense.

[port913]

Re: Grappling changes you would like for UFC 4

as of right now the left stick does nothing when you are on the ground so i tought to use it like this:
use an 8 way analog system, like the one you guys suggested to use for head movment, and here is an example, from full guard:
as the SUB fighter, your minor transitions options are:
up: you will put your hands around your opponet just like mount bottom
pros:lets you recover after knockdown, gives time to think about next move
cons: costs a lot of stamina and unlike mount open to body shots.
(i think can be done as a major transition with the right stick as well)
up and to the right: only right hand on the head of the opponet
pros:you make it difficult for the opponet to posture up,not as much as with 2 hands, but costs less stamina as well. option for elbows from the other hand, can chain
cons: right side of body open, can cost a lot of stamina.
up and to the left: same as up and right, just with the left hand.
right: control opponet right wrist with right hand
pros: stops punches, can start a chain
cons: oppponet can come over the top of the wrist with a slower, but powerful elbow(jon jones style), costs stamina.
left: same as right, just the left hand grabs left wrist
down and right: right leg on opponets left hip.
pros: make transitions to that side slower,can bait opponet so he goes to the other side,can chain
cons: although the transition will be slower, a succssesful transition will result in side control, or even backside if the top player have high ground stats(think khabib style where he is so powerful he can push the opponet leg in a way he will roll over and give his back). can cost a lot of stamina
down and left: same as down and right, just left leg on right hip
down:both legs on hips
pros:can result in a sweep, can create space for fast getup, can chain.
cons: opponet can stack guard,if transitions succsesfuly lead to dangerous positions based on opponets stats and movset(side control ect..)

another mechanic that Phillyboi207 mentioned is chain.
i think it should use the idea of the hard combo system like this:
after a succssesful mini transition, the player can hold R1 so the system "save" his action even if he let go of the stick,and opens new transitios,minor and major, as well as subs, depends on moveset and stats.
example: while using tony while on bottom, i push down the left stick to put feet on hips.
i hold R1 and let go of my stick, and then push left stick up to pull kevin lee head down.
if succssesful, once again i hold R1 to hold position and an option for a 2 gate triangle choke appers.

[tomitomitomi]

Re: Grappling changes you would like for UFC 4

UD3's grappling was a much more fluid and realistic MMA experience. You could posture more freely and transition with much more fluidity. The takedown system involved a "struggle" both fighters would spin the stick and whoever was faster would win, BUT fighter stats did play a role, and not every takedown attempt had a struggle, if you timed someone throwing a strike perfectley you would get an automatic takedown, on the opposite end you could pre deny and end up in sprawl or have an opportunity to go for a guillotine or a knee/strike.
Also sometimes a takedown attempt would end up in a clinch. Honestly UD3's grappling was very in depth and it would take forever to explain it, you kind of have to play it to fully understand, I recommend watching Martial Minds recent video about why he doesn't like the grappling in EA UFC 3, he shows the difference between UD3 and EA3.

All I can really say is that UD3 was way more realistic and fun representation of grappling in MMA. In my opinion EA UFC 3 functions almost like a pure submission grappling match.

You didn't really explain the fundamental differences though. You just listed lots of small features it had. Lots of them (posturing up, preemptive stuff reward, takedown into clinch) could plausibly be added into EA UFC assuming the engine enables it but there would still be the issues with the fakes etc. Mechanically the grappling itself was not great but it nailed the feedback.

Undisputed 3 grappling was style over substance.

[Zeta Reticulan1]

Re: Grappling changes you would like for UFC 4

So I want to state these ideas I had for the ground game again since it appears we will still be building on the current EA ground system going forward. Along with martial mind’s ideas of:

Holding any direction to deny and making transitions take much, much less short term stamina to make the ground game faster.

reversals and a perfect swoop should work the same as now.

More depth and options in each position. Each position should feel like it’s own game and each transition should consist of a series of smaller transitions that have to happen first. For example, from guard a transition to put one arm outside of your leg should be an option, from there you should have a transition option to throw that leg up and over the head, and another to lock the other leg over the ankle. The defender could deny any of these and advance himself in equally small ways. Every other position should be deep in this same way.

Half guard should have transition options for the bottom guy to turn sideways onto his hips (if you do jiu jitsu you know what I mean, preventing yourself from being smashed and getting your hips trapped flat ) and the top guy should have equally small positional transitions - flatten hips of bottom fighter, then another transition to put top of foot on leg of bottom guy, then push with the foot to free the leg trapped in half guard and transition to side control (if the devs really do jiu jitsu I don’t need a frigging gif to explain this one do I?) The idea is that all of these smaller transitions cumulatively lead to larger positional gains, i.e. from half guard to side control.


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[dropthepickankles]

Re: Grappling changes you would like for UFC 4

So I want to state these ideas I had for the ground game again since it appears we will still be building on the current EA ground system going forward. Along with martial mind’s ideas of:

Holding any direction to deny and making transitions take much, much less short term stamina to make the ground game faster.

reversals and a perfect swoop should work the same as now.

More depth and options in each position. Each position should feel like it’s own game and each transition should consist of a series of smaller transitions that have to happen first. For example, from guard a transition to put one arm outside of your leg should be an option, from there you should have a transition option to throw that leg up and over the head, and another to lock the other leg over the ankle. The defender could deny any of these and advance himself in equally small ways. Every other position should be deep in this same way.

Half guard should have transition options for the bottom guy to turn sideways onto his hips (if you do jiu jitsu you know what I mean, preventing yourself from being smashed and getting your hips trapped flat ) and the top guy should have equally small positional transitions - flatten hips of bottom fighter, then another transition to put top of foot on leg of bottom guy, then push with the foot to free the leg trapped in half guard and transition to side control (if the devs really do jiu jitsu I don’t need a frigging gif to explain this one do I?) The idea is that all of these smaller transitions cumulatively lead to larger positional gains, i.e. from half guard to side control.


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your description of it makes it sound really bad tbh, but I know what you're saying. I think less detail is more here in explaining it and selling it.

Think micro-transitions compared to what we have now. You're in mount? You can snake escape and instead of it being one analog stick hold, as it plays out you do stuff each step, such as shrimping.

That's what you're saying, right?

[UFCBlackbelt]

Re: Grappling changes you would like for UFC 4

I want strikes to actually hurt like standup strikes.

If I land a knee in single collar it should hurt

[Zeta Reticulan1]

Grappling changes you would like for UFC 4

your description of it makes it sound really bad tbh, but I know what you're saying. I think less detail is more here in explaining it and selling it.

Think micro-transitions compared to what we have now. You're in mount? You can snake escape and instead of it being one analog stick hold, as it plays out you do stuff each step, such as shrimping.

That's what you're saying, right?

Yeah, performing transitions, micro-transitions essentially, for each step like you said. The shrimping out of mount sounds cool


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