Why do you even bother making some fighters

[xtremeba1000]

Re: Why do you even bother making some fighters

Thats not our logic at all though.

I'll address Olivieria. Did you watch the Condit fight? I did. I thought he lost round 1 pretty clearly. 2nd round he got takedowns against Condit (who has only defends TDs at a 37% clip) and got taken down. The key to that fight was Olivieria's activity from the bottom (including the up kick that lead to the finish) and his Guillotine that actually finished him.

So watching that fight? What would you buff? His stamina is already decent from a standing perspective at 89. Watching the fight again, I would be cool with a grappling stamina buff. Bottom Game? My understanding is that only effects transitioning from the bottom and he did a poor job of that. If that stat also managed striking from the bottom, I would be good with a big buff there.

Sub O? Well he's already a 92. The biggest buff I would give him is sub D (where he is very low).

My view of Alex is he's a mid level WW who beats mid level LW/WWs. With the exception of Condit (who may not be elite any more) he's lost to every fighter who is slightly considered a higher level (unless you are a really big Tim Means fan or give him a ton of crdit for the Brooks fight where he missed weight).

I dont have a problem with buffing him in some areas. I'm actually likely to suggest a few for a future update but I dont think he's criminally underrated.

He's got pretty good wrestling. I'd have to go back and look at his individual stats to tell you which ones I think need slight buffs. I love his moveset though

[MeowingForVengeance]

Re: Why do you even bother making some fighters

1. So pick Cormier.

2. Don't care.

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[Counter Punch]

Re: Why do you even bother making some fighters

I'm not against it. I'm just not sure there is enough time for UFC 3. We are in the fourth month of patches and they typically stop around month 6 or 7. So its probably more of a UFC 4 thing if anything.

Does anyone else find it completely indefensible that a AAAA company like EA stops supporting a game based on a license as big as the UFC after 6 months when the game is on a 2 year dev cycle?

[aholbert32]

Re: Why do you even bother making some fighters

Does anyone else find it completely indefensible that a AAAA company like EA stops supporting a game based on a license as big as the UFC after 6 months when the game is on a 2 year dev cycle?

Pretty much every sports game stops making major patches around the 6-8 mos mark. The devs start working in the next game around that mark. You will occasionally see late patches for some games but those are usually related to online bugs or exploits with modes like ut.

It’s not just an EA thing. 2k and Sony do the same.


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[tomitomitomi]

Re: Why do you even bother making some fighters

I dont understand the complaint since this applies to every other sports / fighting game.

People are tier whores and that will never change

There have been major Street Fighter tournaments where everyone in the top 8 mained a different character. Big Dota 2 tournaments can have over 90% of its 110+ hero pool picked or banned at least once. Obviously there still are the A-tier characters that show up frequently but even the less viable characters can have their niche which this game is lacking.

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I think what makes Saki particularly bad as opposed to Maia is that grappling is considerably more stat dependent than striking. I'd say stat wise striking disadvantage makes it more punishing but doable whereas a grappling disadvantage is just a constant uphill battle without a real way to win barring a massive skill mismatch.

Also, Maia has one of the best grappling ratings in the entire game so he has a clear win condition against any character in the division. The threat of grappling also indirectly buffs his poor striking. Saki on the other hand has abysmal stats in the most stat-reliant aspect of the game and even if you manage to keep it standing it's arguably not even an advantageous situation against the best 205'ers. Similarly to Maia, the threat of grappling also limits his striking options.

I've preached this before but I think the game has an issue where the A-tier characters' weaknesses tend to be even or better than the C/B-tier characters' strengths. Conor has bad grappling stats compared to Khabib/Ferguson but that disadvantage disappears against guys like Poirier/Chiesa on the ground who should be much better than him. A Poirier player should be able to beat Khabib/Conor by playing towards his win conditions. Right now Poirier only wins if he's just flat out better at the game and makes up for the character disadvantage.

My go-to example has been Frankie Edgar and Chad Mendes. Striking wise they are both primarily boxers and they have great top game. I'd say the key differences are that Frankie is more agile and has great chin/recovery whereas Chad is one of the hardest hitters in the division. So in general sense I would say Frankie is a more defensive option while Chad is more offensive. Yet, in game Frankie is just better at most stats and there isn't a real reason to pick Chad instead. There are numerous examples of this in-game. Why pick Big Nog over Werdum unless you are completely obsessed with the man?

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And yes, prime Hendricks would be a better addition than random 86 overall FightPass PrelimFighter #447.

[UFCBlackbelt]

Re: Why do you even bother making some fighters

There have been major Street Fighter tournaments where everyone in the top 8 mained a different character. Big Dota 2 tournaments can have over 90% of its 110+ hero pool picked or banned at least once. Obviously there still are the A-tier characters that show up frequently but even the less viable characters can have their niche which this game is lacking.

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I think what makes Saki particularly bad as opposed to Maia is that grappling is considerably more stat dependent than striking. I'd say stat wise striking disadvantage makes it more punishing but doable whereas a grappling disadvantage is just a constant uphill battle without a real way to win barring a massive skill mismatch.

Also, Maia has one of the best grappling ratings in the entire game so he has a clear win condition against any character in the division. The threat of grappling also indirectly buffs his poor striking. Saki on the other hand has abysmal stats in the most stat-reliant aspect of the game and even if you manage to keep it standing it's arguably not even an advantageous situation against the best 205'ers. Similarly to Maia, the threat of grappling also limits his striking options.

I've preached this before but I think the game has an issue where the A-tier characters' weaknesses tend to be even or better than the C/B-tier characters' strengths. Conor has bad grappling stats compared to Khabib/Ferguson but that disadvantage disappears against guys like Poirier/Chiesa on the ground who should be much better than him. A Poirier player should be able to beat Khabib/Conor by playing towards his win conditions. Right now Poirier only wins if he's just flat out better at the game and makes up for the character disadvantage.

My go-to example has been Frankie Edgar and Chad Mendes. Striking wise they are both primarily boxers and they have great top game. I'd say the key differences are that Frankie is more agile and has great chin/recovery whereas Chad is one of the hardest hitters in the division. So in general sense I would say Frankie is a more defensive option while Chad is more offensive. Yet, in game Frankie is just better at most stats and there isn't a real reason to pick Chad instead. There are numerous examples of this in-game. Why pick Big Nog over Werdum unless you are completely obsessed with the man?

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And yes, prime Hendricks would be a better addition than random 86 overall FightPass PrelimFighter #447.

This is a big deal, and it's both applicable to fighting games but fighting in real life. There are certainly levels to this game, no doubt about that, but the idea that an 15th ranked guy has a massive stat disadvantage over a top 10, rather than it being more about fight IQ is asinine

The other issue is how devs use the argument that fan-friendly fighters should have more stats because "casuals would be upset otherwise" This is a terrible thing to say from a developer who is in charge of balancing a game. For example, Conor McGregor is one of the worst offenders. His chin at WELTERWEIGHT is only 1 point lower than Nick Diaz, making him the second highest (excluding Dana White) in the division. The guy who got rocked by a lightweight (nate Diaz) has a higher chin than Condit, Thompson, Colby, Woodley, Kelvin Gastelum. Etc. It's no wonder that guys like Preunited almost strictly use Conor McGregor at Welterweight.

Or Chad Mendes having a low striking stamina when he has been to the decision multiple times including against Aldo and Cub Swanson (Cub and McGregor both have better striking stamina)

Jake Matthews is a black belt in BJJ, but you would not know that if you saw his character, you'd think he is some low tier striker.

In other fighting games, they do not buff Favorited characters simply because they are popular. Charizard isn't the best pokemon, Goku isn't the best fighter, Ryu isn't the best, Sub Zero isn't the best. I've never heard a single fighting game dev use this argument except for low tier WWE budget games and this game.

The other problem is how devs tend to look at fightmetric stats wayy too much without taking into account details of the fight. Saying things like "This guy has % accuracy rating in takedowns" rather than analyzing his fights or background credentials.

[scyth223]

Re: Why do you even bother making some fighters

I do because I didnt just blow your statement off. I gave you a thought out response. So if I'm going to take my time and do that, I would appreciate a thought out response back. If your post was "Thats flyweight where they have a ton of cardio. There are issues at other divisions"...that wouldve been cool. I wouldve given you the numbers on other divisions.



But you came back with a snarky response. Thats fine too but that isnt the kind of converstations I'm trying to have here.

I didn't even realize you were a game changer, and you mentioned something about always replying about stats, so I can see why you took it personally.

Apologies. Nothing I say is ever directed at anyone in particular, just general gripes I have with the game, especially after 4/5 years.

[scyth223]

Re: Why do you even bother making some fighters

This is a big deal, and it's both applicable to fighting games but fighting in real life. There are certainly levels to this game, no doubt about that, but the idea that an 15th ranked guy has a massive stat disadvantage over a top 10, rather than it being more about fight IQ is asinine

The other issue is how devs use the argument that fan-friendly fighters should have more stats because "casuals would be upset otherwise" This is a terrible thing to say from a developer who is in charge of balancing a game. For example, Conor McGregor is one of the worst offenders. His chin at WELTERWEIGHT is only 1 point lower than Nick Diaz, making him the second highest (excluding Dana White) in the division. The guy who got rocked by a lightweight (nate Diaz) has a higher chin than Condit, Thompson, Colby, Woodley, Kelvin Gastelum. Etc. It's no wonder that guys like Preunited almost strictly use Conor McGregor at Welterweight.

Or Chad Mendes having a low striking stamina when he has been to the decision multiple times including against Aldo and Cub Swanson (Cub and McGregor both have better striking stamina)

Jake Matthews is a black belt in BJJ, but you would not know that if you saw his character, you'd think he is some low tier striker.

In other games, they do not buff Favorited characters simply because they are popular. Charizard isn't the best pokemon, Goku isn't the best fighter, Ryu isn't the best, Sub Zero isn't the best. I've never heard a single fighting game dev use this argument except for low tier WWE budget games and this game.

The other problem is how devs tend to look at fightmetric stats wayy too much without taking into account details of the fight. Saying things like "This guy has % accuracy rating in takedowns" rather than analyzing his fights or background credentials.

Jake Matthews is one of the guys I would happily use, since I usually watch his fights but he's so god dam awful in the game.

[RomeroXVII]

Re: Why do you even bother making some fighters

Like Johnny Hendricks and BJ Penn, why bother making them if they arent going to be playable at all? I dont get your logic in this.

I've beaten some McGregors with BJ Penn. It is hilarious.

[UFCBlackbelt]

Re: Why do you even bother making some fighters

I've beaten some McGregors with BJ Penn. It is hilarious.

Thats impressive, i've only been able to do things like that against really terrible players who have no idea at all what they are doing. Anyone with a slight bit of skill becomes a huge obstacle.

[aholbert32]

Re: Why do you even bother making some fighters

This is a big deal, and it's both applicable to fighting games but fighting in real life. There are certainly levels to this game, no doubt about that, but the idea that an 15th ranked guy has a massive stat disadvantage over a top 10, rather than it being more about fight IQ is asinine

The other issue is how devs use the argument that fan-friendly fighters should have more stats because "casuals would be upset otherwise" This is a terrible thing to say from a developer who is in charge of balancing a game. For example, Conor McGregor is one of the worst offenders. His chin at WELTERWEIGHT is only 1 point lower than Nick Diaz, making him the second highest (excluding Dana White) in the division. The guy who got rocked by a lightweight (nate Diaz) has a higher chin than Condit, Thompson, Colby, Woodley, Kelvin Gastelum. Etc. It's no wonder that guys like Preunited almost strictly use Conor McGregor at Welterweight.

Or Chad Mendes having a low striking stamina when he has been to the decision multiple times including against Aldo and Cub Swanson (Cub and McGregor both have better striking stamina)

Jake Matthews is a black belt in BJJ, but you would not know that if you saw his character, you'd think he is some low tier striker.

In other fighting games, they do not buff Favorited characters simply because they are popular. Charizard isn't the best pokemon, Goku isn't the best fighter, Ryu isn't the best, Sub Zero isn't the best. I've never heard a single fighting game dev use this argument except for low tier WWE budget games and this game.

The other problem is how devs tend to look at fightmetric stats wayy too much without taking into account details of the fight. Saying things like "This guy has % accuracy rating in takedowns" rather than analyzing his fights or background credentials.

Regarding Fightmetric, it’s used but you are exaggerating it’s use. I primarily use it to back up things that I already assumed from watching fights. Like Condit, I’ve watched his fights since the WEC and I recall him getting taken down quite a bit. I look at the stats and that confirms what I thought.

I can only speak for myself. A 1/3 of the roster has specific AI. I helped work on that. I watched the last 4 fights for each one of those fighters. That means during development I watched 300 plus fights just so I could pass that along to Skynet and the team and they could implement in the game. That’s video watching played into the stats too.

The years of watching every Ufc card also played into that too. So let’s not act like the team isn’t watching tape when it comes to doing stats. There are reasons for stat issues. Some are mistakes. Some are calls made by the ufc. Some are related to game balance.


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[RetractedMonkey]

Re: Why do you even bother making some fighters

Almost everything about the stats system and points given was botched.

Power and speed one category. And of course you have lower tier guys treated like they’re good at nothing. Ross Pearson has some of the best inside and outside slips in the whole sport and he has what? Like 86 head movement?

Even the good fighters are botched. Kevin Lee has 87 standup. His switch stance stat should be as high as McGregor’s at least.

Anyways, nothing to gain from this as the entire system and points distribution would need a drastic overhaul. Not gonna happen this game.


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[Counter Punch]

Re: Why do you even bother making some fighters

Pretty much every sports game stops making major patches around the 6-8 mos mark. The devs start working in the next game around that mark. You will occasionally see late patches for some games but those are usually related to online bugs or exploits with modes like ut.

It’s not just an EA thing. 2k and Sony do the same.


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Most sports games are on a 1 year dev cycle. Nice try though.

[MeowingForVengeance]

Re: Why do you even bother making some fighters

Most sports games are on a 1 year dev cycle. Nice try though.

Two years is still a ridiculously short amount of time to put out a game. Non-sports dev teams get 5-6 years.

At some point they have to stop patching the current UFC game and get all hands on deck for the next game. It sucks, but I get why they have to do it.

In my ideal world sports games would come out less frequently and be supported for a longer period of times with updates, but people kept buying Madden every ****ing year and here we are.

[FCB x Finlay]

Re: Why do you even bother making some fighters

Two years is still a ridiculously short amount of time to put out a game. Non-sports dev teams get 5-6 years.

At some point they have to stop patching the current UFC game and get all hands on deck for the next game. It sucks, but I get why they have to do it.

In my ideal world sports games would come out less frequently and be supported for a longer period of times with updates, but people kept buying Madden every ****ing year and here we are.

Big titles are plagued with being tbe same each year, fifa for example has two of the most popular game modes in pro clubs and career mode but no changes for about 4 years and no depth.