UFC Performance Institute Study --- Lessons for UFC 3 & Beyond?

[DaisukEasy]

Re: UFC Performance Institute Study --- Lessons for UFC 3 & Beyond?

Things like blocking, movement, shift in direction on the drop of a dime, tensing up for a strike, all play a factor as well irl and they dont ingame.

They should.

[DaisukEasy]

Re: UFC Performance Institute Study --- Lessons for UFC 3 & Beyond?

I didnt say sparring or fighting. I can hit a heavy bag 600 times with quite a bit of power in 25 minutes without gassing. I think its fair to assume that most people in good shape could also.

I already said that heavy bags are different. But if we're to believe an earlier poster, Conor actually got tired on the heavy bag..

My point is that strike output alone, 600 strikes is possible without gassing. When you add in movement, blocking, getting hit, grappling..etc that number start dwindling.

I meant during an actual MMA fight obviously. So all of the things you just said are assumed even in a completely one-sided fight.

So should the game implement an adrenaline feature? How would that work?

God no.

I've been asking questions and making suggestions about stamina for months now. What I've discovered is there may not be a middle ground.

Revamping stamina isn't as easy as just increasing the stamina tax. It affects a lot of different areas of the game that would need to get reworked as well sadly..

I agree with you that there may not be a middle ground.

* +10% Stamina Tax for Blocked Strikes; to balance this, blocked strikes cause 10% more damage to Blocking Power - Comp players will argue that any increased stamina tax on blocked strikes will encourage camping. Casual fans (who solely rely on blocking as their main defense) will complain that more bleed through will lead to quicker KO's and rocks.

Right now people are overly aggressive anyway. So a bit more hesitancy isn't a bad thing if you ask me.

* +25% Stamina Tax for Missed or Evaded Strikes - Comp players have been complaining for months that people just sit back and bait whiffs simply to lower their opponents stamina. They will argue that this will just encourage people to do more of this and will continue to make the first 2 rounds of fights situations where people will only fight conservatively to bait whiffs and get a stamina advantage.

Also increase tax for head movement. That way the aggressor can also bait head movement and drain the defender. X empty leans drains as much as one dodged hook.

* +100% Stamina Tax for Missed Takedowns (but also make it a bit easier to score takedowns....as they're too difficult right now IMO). Grapplers will complain that this is another nerf to an area that has already been nerfed and that grapplers dont gas significantly just from missing takedowns.

Tell that to Maia.

[aholbert32]

Re: UFC Performance Institute Study --- Lessons for UFC 3 & Beyond?

Tell that to Maia.

Maia gassed in fights where he attempted tens of takedowns and failed. The person was suggesting that the devs increase the stamina tax on EACH failed TD by 100% which is overkill and not realistic.

[Boiler569]

Re: UFC Performance Institute Study --- Lessons for UFC 3 & Beyond?

Glad we got some back-and-forth going here

Most I agree with, some I don't, but good discussion.

Overall ---- it's still just a game, and people aren't going to fight 100% realistic no matter what.

But as many have noted, the game can provide reasonable boundaries to make things "more sim"

I would love for "Top Level Play" to be about 75% Realistic and 25% Arcade/Video Game ---- still want some over the top craziness & fun, but the focus is on realism where possible.

[Ksearyback]

Re: UFC Performance Institute Study --- Lessons for UFC 3 & Beyond?

Things like blocking, movement, shift in direction on the drop of a dime, tensing up for a strike, all play a factor as well irl and they dont ingame.

Movement should definitely play a factor. Not all movement is created equally, so could end up being more obnoxious than anything, unless it was pretty dynamic.

It's exhausting to fight backing up while under duress. This is one of those things that plays out in the second half of a fight (so would be a slow drain on the long-term stamina pool). This is seen more often in boxing, where the longer contest is more conducive to rich narratives playing out over the arc of the fight

[DaisukEasy]

Re: UFC Performance Institute Study --- Lessons for UFC 3 & Beyond?

Maia gassed in fights where he attempted tens of takedowns and failed. The person was suggesting that the devs increase the stamina tax on EACH failed TD by 100% which is overkill and not realistic.

Oh I was a bit unclear.. I wasn't saying that I necessarily agree with the tax increase. I honestly don't know if it needs tweaking.

I was just reponding to this part in particular:

"Grapplers will complain that grapplers dont gas significantly just from missing takedowns."

[Phillyboi207]

Re: UFC Performance Institute Study --- Lessons for UFC 3 & Beyond?

Yeah I definitely dont think andrenaline dump should be added to the game. My point was that 600 strikes in a fight and 600 strikes against a heavy bag are two completely different things.

Hell I used to be able to hit a bag for 5+ rounds without getting tired but barely last 2 when sparring.

Athletes arent perfect and still experience that rush when they perform.

In a perfect world regular movement would cost a tiny bit of stamina, moving strikes would cost extra stamina, combos would cost a bit more long term stamina, and block bleed through would be a bit more prevelant.

The most reasonable fix for all of this imo is a power modifier.

You could break block easier/ add more bleed through, dudes would also gas and be more vulnerable if they over use it. Noobs dont even have to use it so their meta doesnt change much.

That’s the fix im hoping for. Maybe have it so power modifer can only be activated standing still or moving forward tho.

[johnmangala]

Re: UFC Performance Institute Study --- Lessons for UFC 3 & Beyond?

I like the idea of movement having a slight stamina cost, but I feel I am the minority there.

So far everything has a cost really, except movement and blocking.


Maybe two birds can be hit with one stone here: increase stamina cost for strikes but at the same time add slight stamina cost to movement and blocking.

Heavy/medium/light techniques would be better as well.

[Boiler569]

Re: UFC Performance Institute Study --- Lessons for UFC 3 & Beyond?

Maia gassed in fights where he attempted tens of takedowns and failed. The person was suggesting that the devs increase the stamina tax on EACH failed TD by 100% which is overkill and not realistic.

Seems to me that there is very little stamina drain from missed takedowns in-game right now --- maybe 100% increase is a bit of overkill, but on the other hand, missed takedowns REALLY gas you out "in real life" --- and they don't really do that in UFC 3, especially if they are spaced out a bit (i.e. not 2 or 3 missed takedowns in a very short window).

All else equal, I would side with the grapplers who would say HELL NO DON'T NERF TDS MORE!!! ---- as they're already underpowered ----

But that's why, at the same time, I'd want takedowns to get a very solid buff (i.e. more undeniable TD situations based on stamina/timing/stats, as one example)




In terms of top players fighting more conservatively if we add more of a stamina tax --- I don't see that as much of a problem TBH.

I consider myself a 'top player' who fights 'mostly realistically' ---- and I still only go to a 3-round decision maybe 20% of fights at most? --- I feel a bit more incentive to fight conservatively (and/or greater penalty if you are over-aggressive) would only make things more competitive at the higher levels, without making it "too boring"

Trust me I'm sure people would still be swangin n bangin in the first round even if stamina tax was increased 10%, 20%, hell even 50% lol I don't think the meta would turn into a stalemate where all fights go to decision, or anything like that at all

[Ksearyback]

Re: UFC Performance Institute Study --- Lessons for UFC 3 & Beyond?

I like the idea of movement having a slight stamina cost, but I feel I am the minority there.

So far everything has a cost really, except movement and blocking.


Maybe two birds can be hit with one stone here: increase stamina cost for strikes but at the same time add slight stamina cost to movement and blocking.

Heavy/medium/light techniques would be better as well.

I like stamina cost to SOME movement (and at varying rates)

I'm super wary about stamina bleed from blocking. If the meta changes, then I'd be open to it

I'm a fan of off-speed strikes and ability to vary how much you put behind a strike

[Counter Punch]

Re: UFC Performance Institute Study --- Lessons for UFC 3 & Beyond?

I like stamina cost to SOME movement (and at varying rates)

I'm super wary about stamina bleed from blocking. If the meta changes, then I'd be open to it

I'm a fan of off-speed strikes and ability to vary how much you put behind a strike

A power modifier would solve most of our issues.

[FriendlyJudoka]

Re: UFC Performance Institute Study --- Lessons for UFC 3 & Beyond?

A power modifier would solve most of our issues.

But we already have so many modifiers.

Maybe it would be better to differentiate between light button presses and holding a button for a split second to determine power

[AeroZeppelin27]

Re: UFC Performance Institute Study --- Lessons for UFC 3 & Beyond?

But we already have so many modifiers.

Maybe it would be better to differentiate between light button presses and holding a button for a split second to determine power

That could work actually.
You could quickly input your first two strikes, then hold the last input to put power into it.

So you could jab-jab-Booooomb.