Why do fighters in the game move backwards far slower than fighters moving forwards?

[RetractedMonkey]

Re: Why do fighters in the game move backwards far slower than fighters moving forwar

Far too high risk and low reward

This is why I don't respect your opinions. You say these one liners like they are facts and don't back up the claim with even anecdotal evidence. Why is it high risk? Don't you think it would be helpful to to type some gameplay scenarios to bolster your claim and highlight why it is that way instead of just saying "it's high risk, low reward"? It's high risk, low reward because you don't know how to use it.

And of course you'll probably act like I'm personally attacking you and get super offended.

For me, it's borderline broken because of how easily you can avoid almost every strike. All you need is timing and not being predictable.

[ryangil23]

Re: Why do fighters in the game move backwards far slower than fighters moving forwar

1 thing I think a lot of people might be missing is the new judging system being almost completely on damage. In UFC 2, aggression was favoured as long as the strikes were somewhat close which meant if you were going to sit on the outside that you'd have to handily Outland your opponent. This balanced it out so people couldn't just run.

In UFC 3, if footwork was buffed so that you could move away much easier, it would end up making running OP since people would just keep planting and throwing stationary combos and then run again.

I think aggression is still too easy but I think the meta is only this way because it's backed into a corner because of the new judging system as well as stationary combos being so much faster.

I don't like the way the game is either with this hyper aggression but I'm just trying to think of the reasons why it is this way as well as what effects that changes to footwork could do to the game and end up tipping it in its head.

[tomitomitomi]

Re: Why do fighters in the game move backwards far slower than fighters moving forwar

What is "fighting smart" I see a lot of people say it, but if we are being honest here, all we are doing is pressing buttons and moving sticks around mixed in with timing and making correct reads.

Smart by definition means having or showing a quick witted intelligence.

More idle time = less skill and smarts involved.

Edit: To be clear, I am not saying that you should have to punch 100 times a minute to play smart, you can still play like a braindead zombie(and lose) throwing a bajillion strikes.

But interaction between the two players by the pressing of commands is what we have to work with here.

This makes absolutely no sense. Would chess become a "smarter" game if the players only had ten seconds to make their move because there's less "idle time"? Would boxing be smarter if they fought in a phone both instead of a bigass ring? Is Wanderlei Silva a "smarter" fighter than Jon Jones because he fights at a faster pace therefore has to make quicker decisions?

Idle time does not mean passivity. In traditional fighting games there is an actual term for being too active to a detriment ("pressing too many buttons") and it is very applicable to other games. Not doing anything is an action and a lot of times it is the best one.

What people clearly mean by "fighting/playing smart" is that there should be an emphasis on good, adaptive decision making. If anything, people are more likely to go on auto-pilot and rely on muscle memory when the pace becomes too fast for them to process.

I don't have much of an opinion on the rest of the thread but this particular statement irked me.

[Solid_Altair]

Re: Why do fighters in the game move backwards far slower than fighters moving forwar

This makes absolutely no sense. Would chess become a "smarter" game if the players only had ten seconds to make their move because there's less "idle time"? Would boxing be smarter if they fought in a phone both instead of a bigass ring? Is Wanderlei Silva a "smarter" fighter than Jon Jones because he fights at a faster pace therefore has to make quicker decisions?

Idle time does not mean passivity. In traditional fighting games there is an actual term for being too active to a detriment ("pressing too many buttons") and it is very applicable to other games. Not doing anything is an action and a lot of times it is the best one.

What people clearly mean by "fighting/playing smart" is that there should be an emphasis on good, adaptive decision making. If anything, people are more likely to go on auto-pilot and rely on muscle memory when the pace becomes too fast for them to process.

I don't have much of an opinion on the rest of the thread but this particular statement irked me.

It's funny that mentioned chess. Noobs like me tend to play without time, whereas experts play with a time count.

[1212headkick]

Re: Why do fighters in the game move backwards far slower than fighters moving forwar

It's funny that mentioned chess. Noobs like me tend to play without time, whereas experts play with a time count.

The community is beyond the point of being told were wrong when we’ve been saying what we’ve wanted the last 4 patches. Who is really listening to us besides two game changers? One of them even came in here acting childish basically telling the community”sorry not sorry” he’s called this community bums casuals etc and I doubt that to be the case. The divide between us and those
who represent us is wide. The game should be made for us. As far as retracted monkey I never see the back sway used EVER or the push or the retreat because they’re useless and ineffective and keeping distance. Most ufc fighters don’t have to go to such great lengths to keep the distance. It’s much harder to get on the inside in boxing or kick boxing than it is to stay at the outside. Going inside is very telegraphable and high risk. That factor is not well represented.

[tomitomitomi]

Re: Why do fighters in the game move backwards far slower than fighters moving forwar

It's funny that mentioned chess. Noobs like me tend to play without time, whereas experts play with a time count.

Because otherwise they would take hours each turn considering every single option and it would make for an extremely spectator-unfriendly experience.

[ZHunter1990]

Re: Why do fighters in the game move backwards far slower than fighters moving forwar

This makes absolutely no sense. Would chess become a "smarter" game if the players only had ten seconds to make their move because there's less "idle time"? Would boxing be smarter if they fought in a phone both instead of a bigass ring? Is Wanderlei Silva a "smarter" fighter than Jon Jones because he fights at a faster pace therefore has to make quicker decisions?

Idle time does not mean passivity. In traditional fighting games there is an actual term for being too active to a detriment ("pressing too many buttons") and it is very applicable to other games. Not doing anything is an action and a lot of times it is the best one.

What people clearly mean by "fighting/playing smart" is that there should be an emphasis on good, adaptive decision making. If anything, people are more likely to go on auto-pilot and rely on muscle memory when the pace becomes too fast for them to process.

I don't have much of an opinion on the rest of the thread but this particular statement irked me.

Did you read what I had said directly beneath that?

[I]"Edit: To be clear, I am not saying that you should have to punch 100 times a minute to play smart, you can still play like a braindead zombie(and lose) throwing a bajillion strikes.

But interaction between the two players by the pressing of commands is what we have to work with here."[/b]

[tomitomitomi]

Re: Why do fighters in the game move backwards far slower than fighters moving forwar

Did you read what I had said directly beneath that?

[I]"Edit: To be clear, I am not saying that you should have to punch 100 times a minute to play smart, you can still play like a braindead zombie(and lose) throwing a bajillion strikes.

But interaction between the two players by the pressing of commands is what we have to work with here."[/b]

Yep. I was addressing your statement that idle time equals less skill and smarts. What do you think would be the happy medium then?

[ZHunter1990]

Re: Why do fighters in the game move backwards far slower than fighters moving forwar

Yep. I was addressing your statement that idle time equals less skill and smarts. What do you think would be the happy medium then?

I think we would need more direct control of the tiny nuances that come along with elite movement. That way more there is more interaction between both fighters in regards to movement, other than moving the stick away from your opponent. Creating small openings to capitalize on over aggression by either creating space or counter opportunities derived from making correct reads and decisions.

Im afraid this wont matter though because I feel many people would rather claim to want to be an outside fighter, but really just want to only engage on their terms while sitting in their safe bubble the rest of the time and either aren't capable of making clutch reads or would refuse to learn.

Currently,
I get the chance to play 2 maybe 3 times a week and I can keep a player like Kenetic from stalking me down and force him into a poke war from outside of the pocket. Now he usually wins the poke wars, leading to aggression. But nonetheless, I can still easily punish unwarranted aggression by one of/if not the best player.

This is because the game rewards the fighter planted more than it rewards the fighter moving forward.

[Phillyboi207]

Re: Why do fighters in the game move backwards far slower than fighters moving forwar

I think we would need more direct control of the tiny nuances that come along with elite movement. That way more there is more interaction between both fighters in regards to movement, other than moving the stick away from your opponent. Creating small openings to capitalize on over aggression by either creating space or counter opportunities derived from making correct reads and decisions.

Im afraid this wont matter though because I feel many people would rather claim to want to be an outside fighter, but really just want to only engage on their terms while sitting in their safe bubble the rest of the time and either aren't capable of making clutch reads or would refuse to learn.

Currently,
I get the chance to play 2 maybe 3 times a week and I can keep a player like Kenetic from stalking me down and force him into a poke war from outside of the pocket. Now he usually wins the poke wars, leading to aggression. But nonetheless, I can still easily punish unwarranted aggression by one of/if not the best player.

This is because the game rewards the fighter planted more than it rewards the fighter moving forward.

If you have video please post it. I would love to learn from that matchup

[tomitomitomi]

Re: Why do fighters in the game move backwards far slower than fighters moving forwar

Currently,
I get the chance to play 2 maybe 3 times a week and I can keep a player like Kenetic from stalking me down and force him into a poke war from outside of the pocket. Now he usually wins the poke wars, leading to aggression. But nonetheless, I can still easily punish unwarranted aggression by one of/if not the best player.

That's footsies in fighting games and for me it is the most enjoyable aspect of all fighting games. Don't you find that to be a skillful and smart (sticking to the buzzwords here) aspect of the game? Theoretically you can do a lot of cool things like

- Throw a slow strike expecting the opponent to walk into it (everyone's been hit by a random 360 tornado kick at some point)
- Pretend to come forward then back away to bait strikes
- Timing your opponent's attack and lunge in
- General distancing stuff (staying either outside kick range or inside your punch range if you use a short reach boxer)

I think it is a very good way to get thought-provoking gameplay out of pressing buttons and moving sticks around.

But yes, I agree with your sentiment about the "outside fighter" perspective people have.

[ZHunter1990]

Re: Why do fighters in the game move backwards far slower than fighters moving forwar

That's footsies in fighting games and for me it is the most enjoyable aspect of all fighting games. Don't you find that to be a skillful and smart (sticking to the buzzwords here) aspect of the game? Theoretically you can do a lot of cool things like

- Throw a slow strike expecting the opponent to walk into it (everyone's been hit by a random 360 tornado kick at some point)
- Pretend to come forward then back away to bait strikes
- Timing your opponent's attack and lunge in
- General distancing stuff (staying either outside kick range or inside your punch range if you use a short reach boxer)

I think it is a very good way to get thought-provoking gameplay out of pressing buttons and moving sticks around.

But yes, I agree with your sentiment about the "outside fighter" perspective people have.

Absolutely! And this exists for the most part in game. It really opens up the striking amongst two people with similar skill. That said footsie battles at your opponents will regardless of skill level is a slippery slope.

The would be issue occurs when a fighter isn't forced to react or make reads in a timely manner. A good player makes these reads, slips, dashes, or plants and counters. A bad player gets overwhelmed and freezes up. Then complains about aggression and chants that they should freely be able to make space because they cant earn their opponents respect.

You will notice a pattern, these people are always dissatisfied and often complain about things that aren't really issues at all. Im not saying the game is perfect by any means, but eventually you have to suck it up and adapt.

[1212headkick]

Re: Why do fighters in the game move backwards far slower than fighters moving forwar

Absolutely! And this exists for the most part in game. It really opens up the striking amongst two people with similar skill. That said footsie battles at your opponents will regardless of skill level is a slippery slope.

The would be issue occurs when a fighter isn't forced to react or make reads in a timely manner. A good player makes these reads, slips, dashes, or plants and counters. A bad player gets overwhelmed and freezes up. Then complains about aggression and chants that they should freely be able to make space because they cant earn their opponents respect.

You will notice a pattern, these people are always dissatisfied and often complain about things that aren't really issues at all. Im not saying the game is perfect by any means, but eventually you have to suck it up and adapt.

Your forgetting the most common thing s fighter does probably because your a jiu jitsu guy and that’s back up even in jiu Hindu it’s importsnt to maintain distance till your ready. Aggression is an issue when literally everyone on reddit and operation sports are saying it is the ones who aren’t are actually the minority. Let’s not have confirmation bias here. Let’s look at the polls and countless threads and facts made on this issue and yes it is an issue. You use arcade fighter terms for a mma game and right there’s is an inherent problem especially if these arcade fighter concepts were what was told to the devs we wanted. The whole game on the feet is modeled after arcade fighter philosophy’s. Who asked for these concepts to be in the game? No one who’s an mma fan. Look at Floyd mayweather most of his fights were won on the outside and both fighters keeping a good distance Floyd often fought with his body leading forward but his feet were out of range so he could easily pull counter. Let’s model the game of realism and not pathetic street fighter terms they have no place in this game

[aholbert32]

Re: Why do fighters in the game move backwards far slower than fighters moving forwar

Your forgetting the most common thing s fighter does probably because your a jiu jitsu guy and that’s back up even in jiu Hindu it’s importsnt to maintain distance till your ready. Aggression is an issue when literally everyone on reddit and operation sports are saying it is the ones who aren’t are actually the minority. Let’s not have confirmation bias here. Let’s look at the polls and countless threads and facts made on this issue and yes it is an issue. You use arcade fighter terms for a mma game and right there’s is an inherent problem especially if these arcade fighter concepts were what was told to the devs we wanted. The whole game on the feet is modeled after arcade fighter philosophy’s. Who asked for these concepts to be in the game? No one who’s an mma fan. Look at Floyd mayweather most of his fights were won on the outside and both fighters keeping a good distance Floyd often fought with his body leading forward but his feet were out of range so he could easily pull counter. Let’s model the game of realism and not pathetic street fighter terms they have no place in this game

I gotta be honest. This post is a bunch of trash.

I’ve been a GC for almost 3 yrs and never heard Zack push “arcade fighter concepts”

Do Zack and I disagree on certain concepts in the game? Hell yeah. With that said, I recognize he is coming from a high level player perspective and many in that group agree with his perspective.

I love OS. I agree with a lot of stuff here but a poll here just means the hardcore realism crowd wants something. It doesn’t represent the ENTIRE community. Just a portion. Our opinion counts just like Zack’s does and he is free to see the game different than us.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[1212headkick]

Re: Why do fighters in the game move backwards far slower than fighters moving forwar

I gotta be honest. This post is a bunch of trash.

I’ve been a GC for almost 3 yrs and never heard Zack push “arcade fighter concepts”

Do Zack and I disagree on certain concepts in the game? Hell yeah. With that said, I recognize he is coming from a high level player perspective and many in that group agree with his perspective.

I love OS. I agree with a lot of stuff here but a poll here just means the hardcore realism crowd wants something. It doesn’t represent the ENTIRE community. Just a portion. Our opinion counts just like Zack’s does and he is free to see the game different than us.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

I was division 8 in ufc 2 div 5 bouncing in and out of the top 100 beaten a lot of the top guys that argument doesn’t really fall in place here. Originally I asked a question and it turned into a **** show even after martial answered it.