What to look for to hit Undeniable TDs, Single Leg Counters,

[Boiler569]

Re: What to look for to hit Undeniable TDs, Single Leg Counters,

Yes great guide but I hope you have to re-write it (or at least a ton to it) post-patch

Personally one of the biggest fixes to the Clinch & Takedown entries = NERF PRE-DENY

Mostly by locking you out if you choose the wrong option. You pre-deny clinch; but they go for TD? Undeniable TD.

You pre-deny TD; they go for clinch? Undeniable Clinch.

Just like how you get locked-out on the ground if you choose wrong.

I know I've written this a half dozen times the past few months but I honestly think that this alone will fix a lot of the issues with TDs & Clinch Entries being underpowered, though it won't be a silver bullet by itself

[RomeroXVII]

Re: What to look for to hit Undeniable TDs, Single Leg Counters,

Decent players mostly don't use forward moving kicks or overhands and that's why I still believe these undeniable takedowns are still underpowered as hell though. I do land takedowns off of ducked stationary overhands though but they are never the undeniable kind. You're mainly going to have to deal with boxing and stationary kicks at a higher level in this game.

The main issue I encounter is with people coming forward with high level boxing and predenying clinch and takedowns, if you try to land these undeniable takedowns on people that are trying hard not to lose you'll generally get sprawled on ( or countered like the ways you listed, which are still way too easy to land ) and have to resort to striking due to stamina drain. Great guide, but I just wanted to clarify that they were still very underpowered in my opinion. We'll probably see everything shaken up with the next patch though, so we'll see where everything is at.

It is an opinion I respect.

I find the best thing to do to set up the takedowns is getting the better of the striking exchanges and timing it accordingly. Like I said before, in MMA, open space takedowns are very tough to get so the timing has to be right. Au contraire, a lot of combos the other high level guys do that you and I have both fought are usually moving forward, heck, the basic 1-2 Headkick is using done with the head kick moving forward as a means to catch somebody trying to back sway, and you can get the Auto TD there as well.
Thank God for the Jab Spin kick nerf, because now it's much easier to hit the tackle takedown on people who use it lol.

I've hit a few on Aaron_21, who THRIVES on Pressure, staying in your face and not even he could stop them. Hit the undeniable TDs on UniBot's GSP, somebody who's a much better grappler than me overall, with Rockhold.

You can't sprawl on the undeniable TDs, hence the term Undeniable. Sometimes though there is a problem where you'd shoot for a double and the character would shoot for a single, which makes it easier to deny. That, I'm not a fan of.

As for the single leg counters and what not, I don't see them done too often at the higher levels, but then again that's my experience, not yours. The best way not to get caught in them is to not telegraph/have a pattern in when you will shoot on your opponent.

I fought with Ultras twice today, and I loved the way he would try to disguise his clinch attempts with strikes, and his judging on the low single leg distance was great but while the first fight went his way by the decision, the second fight the attempts were telegraphed that same way so it was easier for me to deny the attempts second fight and score some takedowns of my own, and win the striking exchanges for the KO. His clinch game was phenomenal though, and I think people should look to that style to effectively utilize the grappling.

Personally I think that having to have a 90+ takedown kinda locks out most people from being able to do these undeniable TDs. You know I love using José Aldo, but if I want to get my grappling on it's gonna have to be Mendes/Edgar. 87+ would be good to have the auto TDs available.

Ultimately though, it does come down to how much easier it is to be a pressure striker than a grappler (at first). I've fought dudes who were seemingly savages on the feet, but once they got taken down they were a fish out of water. Beauty of MMA. I'm personally looking forward to this new patch.

[RomeroXVII]

Re: What to look for to hit Undeniable TDs, Single Leg Counters,

Yes great guide but I hope you have to re-write it (or at least a ton to it) post-patch

Personally one of the biggest fixes to the Clinch & Takedown entries = NERF PRE-DENY

Mostly by locking you out if you choose the wrong option. You pre-deny clinch; but they go for TD? Undeniable TD.

You pre-deny TD; they go for clinch? Undeniable Clinch.

Just like how you get locked-out on the ground if you choose wrong.

I know I've written this a half dozen times the past few months but I honestly think that this alone will fix a lot of the issues with TDs & Clinch Entries being underpowered, though it won't be a silver bullet by itself

I like this definitely.

[1212headkick]

Re: What to look for to hit Undeniable TDs, Single Leg Counters,

I like this definitely.

thats why i go for brian ortega and go for the subs. dont care if i miss as it goes to the ground

[RomeroXVII]

Re: What to look for to hit Undeniable TDs, Single Leg Counters,

thats why i go for brian ortega and go for the subs. dont care if i miss as it goes to the ground

See, now that's using your head.

[Whiteshark209]

Re: What to look for to hit Undeniable TDs, Single Leg Counters,

thats why i go for brian ortega and go for the subs. dont care if i miss as it goes to the ground

Vs Ortega my main goal is to deny that clinch. I don’t want any part of the two gate subs from him.

[RomeroXVII]

Re: What to look for to hit Undeniable TDs, Single Leg Counters,

Vs Ortega my main goal is to deny that clinch. I don’t want any part of the two gate subs from him.

Lord knows the amount of losses I had in Season 1 due to Ortega 2 Gate Cheese 😂😂😂

[1212headkick]

Re: What to look for to hit Undeniable TDs, Single Leg Counters,

You have shown me de wae.

Now back on topic, anybody else with good takedown tips?

ducking makes them easier to hit

[1212headkick]

Re: What to look for to hit Undeniable TDs, Single Leg Counters,

Vs Ortega my main goal is to deny that clinch. I don’t want any part of the two gate subs from him.

When I overhand uppercut you it becomes very hard to stop because if the full combo lands it’s a rock and if just the overhand lands your usually too flustered to deny

[CAPTAINKUKAMUNGA]

Re: What to look for to hit Undeniable TDs, Single Leg Counters,

I didn't see this two explicitly mentioned so ill chuck them out there:

You can hit a diving low single/ankle pick on an opponent stiff-arm retreating within TD range.

And you can land an Auto-TD whilst both fighters are planted if you use headmovement to avoid a heavy shot like an Overhand or Hook (tested as Blaydes vs Hunt)

For example, if you sway a stationary overhand you can immediately time and auto-double off the sway. You have to be quick and I recall it occasionally and randomly not giving me the instand TD.

Basically, as to my understanding, you can time auto TDs on advancing strikes, and you can use sways to get them on planted strikes.

With the planted strikes however, I'm positive you need a slight stamina advantage, and the bigger than Advantage gets. The easier your insta-TD.


Oh. And finally, you'll always get an instant TD on a taunting opponent (I dunno if you even need the 90 TD off here)

Super handy for this cocky types who taunt in your face to bait counters.

What do you mean by stiff-arm i never heard that term before?

[RomeroXVII]

Re: What to look for to hit Undeniable TDs, Single Leg Counters,

What do you mean by stiff-arm i never heard that term before?

Holding R1+ R2 is the evasive stiff arm retreat. You'll see José Aldo use it a lot against Frankie Edgar in their second fight at UFC 200 for example.

[CAPTAINKUKAMUNGA]

Re: What to look for to hit Undeniable TDs, Single Leg Counters,

Holding R1+ R2 is the evasive stiff arm retreat. You'll see José Aldo use it a lot against Frankie Edgar in their second fight at UFC 200 for example.

Ah yeah now i get you i notice Ragin Al has that as well.Thanks for the reply dude

[Good Grappler]

Re: What to look for to hit Undeniable TDs, Single Leg Counters,

Absolutely fantastic thread

Edit: stationary doubles as your opponent comes forward is the way to go atm. Seems to be an incredibly reliable TD. Just get your opponent chasing you... then suddenly plant your feet as they’re coming forward, and shoot as they extend with a strike. Sometimes, don’t shoot the TD; blast a 1-2 instead. (The opponent will start anticipating the takedown when you stand still, and a 1-2 down the center can really blast them if they’re expecting a double).

But it’s all about creating awkward lulls in the action. Those random brief pauses. That’s where most players over-commit, and give up TDs.

[RomeroXVII]

Re: What to look for to hit Undeniable TDs, Single Leg Counters,

Absolutely fantastic thread

Edit: stationary doubles as your opponent comes forward is the way to go atm. Seems to be an incredibly reliable TD. Just get your opponent chasing you... then suddenly plant your feet as they’re coming forward, and shoot as they extend with a strike. Sometimes, don’t shoot the TD; blast a 1-2 instead. (The opponent will start anticipating the takedown when you stand still, and a 1-2 down the center can really blast them if they’re expecting a double).

But it’s all about creating awkward lulls in the action. Those random brief pauses. That’s where most players over-commit, and give up TDs.

It's funny you say that, because that's usually how I set them up. And, conversely I look for those lulls in action because that's when I feel the grappling attempt coming in the horizon.

[SpartanZombieXD]

Re: What to look for to hit Undeniable TDs, Single Leg Counters,

https://youtu.be/v266JmmAs2E ESFL FIGHT.

So since my ESFL fight against a really dangerous Gentle_ghost, people have been asking me how to hit the undeniable takedown I hit with Demetrious Johnson in the fight, along with prerequisites that are needed to hit them.

According to the GPD to get the animation:

Character must have a 90+ TD Offense Attribute.

The move they hit must be them coming FORWARD. Nothing PLANTED.

Has to be executed with the REGULAR Double Leg, not the Double Leg High.

And with regards to the patch that buffed takedowns, a reminder that: If your opponent is moving AWAY the single leg is easier, if they are coming FORWARD, the double is easier. If you sway two strikes, for example the infamous Jab Uppercut Hook, you can get an Auto Regular TD there where the GA meter doesn't even exist.


Now I don't know if GPD threw this in there, but this is something I have found out with practicing this:


Somebody does a moving forward Head kick, you can hit the Auto TD, moving Spinning Heel Kick, you can hit the Undeniable TD OR the Tackle TD, if somebody misses a forward moving leg kick, Tackle TD, if it lands to the OUTSIDE of the lead leg, AUTOMATIC UNDENIABLE TD Double to Half Guard, for fighters with a 90+ TD Rating. Moving Forward Overhands, time a Double correctly, automatic TD with a 90+ TD Rating.

Heck, if somebody hits a SUPERMAN PUNCH and you block and time it accordingly, you can hit the UNDENIABLE TD THERE AS WELL!

If the wonderful johnmangala can show me how to do some gifs, or even post a few onto here, that would be greatly appreciated.

As for the single leg counters, they will not work if you try to predeny with them like a regular sprawl. They will only work, IF YOUR OPPONENT IS ON THE LEG, so keep that in mind, and they work BEST on guys trying to do the Single/Double Leg HIGH.

Hence the term, COUNTER. Like in Wrestling, I'm not going to hit the counter preemptively otherwise I give up position early, my opponent has to be on my leg in order to hit the counters. Depending on your character, you can either use L2-R2 and UP for Double Unders, L2-R2 Left-Right with the right characters, (Edgar, Aldo for example) puts your opponent in SIDE Control. And the one you have to watch out for is the Single Leg Guillotine Counter (L2-R2 Down) and the Kimura Double Leg Counter. (L2-R2 Down) Be aware if you fail these, you get put in a weak position that your opponent can take advantage of.

The main thing is to HOLD rather than flick, flicking does not work with the counters.

I'll be doing a tutorial on how to hit these soon, but I just wanted to get these little details out there for everybody to take a look at.

From AeroZeppelin:
You can hit a diving low single/ankle pick on an opponent stiff-arm retreating within TD range.

And you can land an Auto-TD whilst both fighters are planted if you use headmovement to avoid a heavy shot like an Overhand or Hook (tested as Blaydes vs Hunt)

For example, if you sway a stationary overhand you can immediately time and auto-double off the sway. You have to be quick and I recall it occasionally and randomly not giving me the instant TD.

Basically, as to my understanding, you can time auto TDs on advancing strikes, and you can use sways to get them on planted strikes.

With the planted strikes however, I'm positive you need a slight stamina advantage, and the bigger than Advantage gets. The easier your insta-TD.


Oh. And finally, you'll always get an instant TD on a taunting opponent (I dunno if you even need the 90 TD off here)

Just wanna add, if someone whiffs a rear leg kick (possibly lead aswell, I know with rear) if you shoot right after the whiff its an undeniable TD to back side, as if you interrupted a spin kick