You Lose or you Learn... Unless you are playing EA UFC 3...

[SMOKEZERO]

Re: You Lose or you Learn... Unless you are playing EA UFC 3...

The biggest disappointment is the in-house politics to neuter UFC 3, because apparently UFC 2 was too violent with the finishes. Shame, as the KO’s were an unsung hook for UFC 2. I’ve faded off UFC 3 within a week of the last three patches.


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[MartialMind]

Re: You Lose or you Learn... Unless you are playing EA UFC 3...

Remove the grappling reaction based system and solve all problems

Could you explain this further? I tend to agree that "Reaction based grappling" flat out sucks for a few reasons... But I'd like to know exactly what you're thinking.

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[GrimLeiper]

Re: You Lose or you Learn... Unless you are playing EA UFC 3...

I'll give you 2 examples of under the hood mechanics on the ground game.

1 kinda simple to figure out and one I've yet to figure out.

1. Half Guard Dominant Fighter, Postured down Striking. While the Dominant striker is throwing mini-strikes while postured down, the guy on the submissive side, can easily transition to full guard, with an unblockable transition, due to their opponent using their hands to strike instead of holding em down.
2. Full Mount/Postured Up, Submissive Fighter Defending. As a defensive fighter, i feel it's 50% luck on wether I'll survive getting Full Mounted or not. This wasn't the case with EA UFC 2. Whatever under-the-hood mechanic they introduced with EA UFC 3, it has made it unclear when i'll be able to transition out. For Example, EA UFC 2, when you were mounted and the guy was postured up stirking down at you, you would block 2 or 3 strikes then get a free/nearly impossible to block transition and go to half guard.
   
   In EA UFC 3, half the time, after i block 2 strikes and i try to transition, even if the transition meter feels up 100%, the opponent's 3rd spammy strike, will appear to be somewhat buggy and still cancel that transition and land, mini-stunning you, leaving you there hanging and perhaps eating more afterwards, because u were expecting to go to half guard instead of blocking.

Neither of these are under the hood and are things you pick up whilst playing - I'd even say so against the AI - which makes me think you've invested very little time playing, to understand it.

Both things you mentioned worked very similarly in UFC 2 also. I'd assume if you've only played ranked 10 times, you play more in quick fight or offline - do you play with the grapple meter showing?

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[GrimLeiper]

Re: You Lose or you Learn... Unless you are playing EA UFC 3...

No clinch is just broke and bad in all aspects... but its not an exploit... is just bad

How so?

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[bmlimo]

Re: You Lose or you Learn... Unless you are playing EA UFC 3...

Could you explain this further? I tend to agree that "Reaction based grappling" flat out sucks for a few reasons... But I'd like to know exactly what you're thinking.

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I will try to explain a system that I think is ideal... forgive my english... but its like this:

Grappling defense(deny) would be a bar that gets drained when the opponent try to pass and strikes you. Left stick would be a stick for defense transitions and the right stick for attack transitions

Like:
Left stick- put it in the side that your opponent is trying to block the transition
Left stick + lb - could be momentum sweeps like the deny we already have
Left stick + lt sweeps(from bottom)
Left stick + lt + lb transitions to stand up
Left stick + rt submission defense(neck)
Left stick + rb submission defense(limbs)

Right stick whitout press triggers would be fakes
Right stick + lb- minor transitions
Right stick + lt major transitions
Right stick + rt submissions(neck)
Right stick + lrb submissions(limbs)

LT whitout stick- posture up for ground and pound, and when opponent is postured up
Lt + RT+ elbows modifier
Lt + Rt + Rb hammer fists modifier
Lt + lb ground hooks modifier
Rt- block high
Rb- block low

-
Something like this... i didnt think to much on this to be honest just when u made the question ... its possible make a system balanced more in strategy than in reaction... but some reaction sweeps and subs would be part of it of course

[bmlimo]

Re: You Lose or you Learn... Unless you are playing EA UFC 3...

How so?

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I believe UD3 had the perfect clinch game

[GrimLeiper]

Re: You Lose or you Learn... Unless you are playing EA UFC 3...

I believe UD3 had the perfect clinch game

Your alternative for grappling sounds interesting, was this how it was on UD3? (I never played that).

You mentioned the grappling should be more influenced by strategy than reaction time - I'd argue that there is plenty of strategy involved in the current system, although at certain levels it may perhaps be edged out by the quickest reactions. Overall though, it's about figuring out what your opponent struggles to deal with.

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[tomitomitomi]

Re: You Lose or you Learn... Unless you are playing EA UFC 3...

I will try to explain a system that I think is ideal... forgive my english... but its like this:

Grappling defense(deny) would be a bar that gets drained when the opponent try to pass and strikes you. Left stick would be a stick for defense transitions and the right stick for attack transitions

Like:
Left stick- put it in the side that your opponent is trying to block the transition
Left stick + lb - could be momentum sweeps like the deny we already have
Left stick + lt sweeps(from bottom)
Left stick + lt + lb transitions to stand up
Left stick + rt submission defense(neck)
Left stick + rb submission defense(limbs)

Right stick whitout press triggers would be fakes
Right stick + lb- minor transitions
Right stick + lt major transitions
Right stick + rt submissions(neck)
Right stick + lrb submissions(limbs)

LT whitout stick- posture up for ground and pound, and when opponent is postured up
Lt + RT+ elbows modifier
Lt + Rt + Rb hammer fists modifier
Lt + lb ground hooks modifier
Rt- block high
Rb- block low

-
Something like this... i didnt think to much on this to be honest just when u made the question ... its possible make a system balanced more in strategy than in reaction... but some reaction sweeps and subs would be part of it of course

But you are still reacting to animations here. You just gave it more convoluted controls. Even then I don't understand the stigma reaction-based grappling has because pro-grappling is becoming faster and faster. You don't really get away with being slow.

I agree with OP's complaint about the game not explaining mechanics sufficiently. I'd say his examples are more about the inconsistency that derives from different fighters' stat differences. The issue that UFC has compared to other sports games e.g. FIFA and 2K is that in those games miscalculations are not as severe. If you go for the half-guard transition after 2 blocked punches but get caught you're pretty much screwed. That being said, you could roll to back mount instead which is more consistent.

I'd say a better example of unexplained mechanics are fakes and momentum.

[bmlimo]

Re: You Lose or you Learn... Unless you are playing EA UFC 3...

But you are still reacting to animations here. You just gave it more convoluted controls. Even then I don't understand the stigma reaction-based grappling has because pro-grappling is becoming faster and faster. You don't really get away with being slow.

I agree with OP's complaint about the game not explaining mechanics sufficiently. I'd say his examples are more about the inconsistency that derives from different fighters' stat differences. The issue that UFC has compared to other sports games e.g. FIFA and 2K is that in those games miscalculations are not as severe. If you go for the half-guard transition after 2 blocked punches but get caught you're pretty much screwed. That being said, you could roll to back mount instead which is more consistent.

I'd say a better example of unexplained mechanics are fakes and momentum.

Yes somethings are reaction based it’s because ground game really has it... but the point is “deny “ in this system is not what runs the graplling the thing is the strategy to break your opponent guard and pass, the ground and pound beeing a huge factor in it but also choosing the best transition...

[bmlimo]

Re: You Lose or you Learn... Unless you are playing EA UFC 3...

Your alternative for grappling sounds interesting, was this how it was on UD3? (I never played that).

You mentioned the grappling should be more influenced by strategy than reaction time - I'd argue that there is plenty of strategy involved in the current system, although at certain levels it may perhaps be edged out by the quickest reactions. Overall though, it's about figuring out what your opponent struggles to deal with.

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The point is reaction system has a lot of things that influences the outcome, conection speed, tv Hz... what I want is something more in control of the player... and especially attack based

[RetractedMonkey]

Re: You Lose or you Learn... Unless you are playing EA UFC 3...

As per usual, the OP uses baseless conjecture with no actual specific complaints to hide his almost entirely visible emotional reaction. You were good at UFC 1 and 2 (supposedly) and you aren't good at this one. It isn't the game's fault you failed to progress with the new systems.

[Good Grappler]

Re: You Lose or you Learn... Unless you are playing EA UFC 3...

As per usual, the OP uses baseless conjecture with no actual specific complaints to hide his almost entirely visible emotional reaction. You were good at UFC 1 and 2 (supposedly) and you aren't good at this one. It isn't the game's fault you failed to progress with the new systems.

Don’t forget the “toxic players” who are trying to transfer their “my life sucks mentality”. They’re at fault too for using the mechanics OP’s bad at.

[GrimLeiper]

Re: You Lose or you Learn... Unless you are playing EA UFC 3...

The point is reaction system has a lot of things that influences the outcome, conection speed, tv Hz... what I want is something more in control of the player... and especially attack based

I totally get that, but grappling effectiveness is based on more things than just strategy. Wrestlers and BJJ drill these transitions and sweeps over and over and over again, just like a Striker would drill a slip straight.

I understand your reasoning, but by the same logic, shouldn't the striking be the same?

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[GrimLeiper]

Re: You Lose or you Learn... Unless you are playing EA UFC 3...

Just to add to my previous post. It sounds like you want a slower paced grappling system - but this would mean everyone is denying everyone's transitions with much more ease, probably resulting in more stalemates on the ground.

Can I ask, when you find yourself on the ground vs a grappler, do you struggle to get back up? Are they likely to finish you there?

I'm not trying to be patronising. I'm quite competent when it comes to grappling - I became good at this before I improved my striking on UFC 2 and the mechanics and ideas have translated across to UFC 3.

Whilst you may well understand the current system, a lot of people simply don't have a clue and just make do with what has worked so far. I'd imagine a lot of these players want a slower grappling system. But it's not really justifiable.

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[bmlimo]

Re: You Lose or you Learn... Unless you are playing EA UFC 3...

Just to add to my previous post. It sounds like you want a slower paced grappling system - but this would mean everyone is denying everyone's transitions with much more ease, probably resulting in more stalemates on the ground.

Can I ask, when you find yourself on the ground vs a grappler, do you struggle to get back up? Are they likely to finish you there?

I'm not trying to be patronising. I'm quite competent when it comes to grappling - I became good at this before I improved my striking on UFC 2 and the mechanics and ideas have translated across to UFC 3.

Whilst you may well understand the current system, a lot of people simply don't have a clue and just make do with what has worked so far. I'd imagine a lot of these players want a slower grappling system. But it's not really justifiable.

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I don’t have problem with the speed and I don’ think is fast paced...
theres no secret in grappling you haver to read your opponent
You have to do nothing wait for his fakes than deny, or you have to fake to make him miss and pass... I dont like the system is borying and sluggish, we are playing an MMA game and I dont see the main focus beeing on ground and poud, instead the focus is the “deny”. You see there, hurt my eyes when im on bottom and the guy on top instead of punch my fighter stay shaking all his body faking its just uggly to see kkkk also lattency playing a big hole in grappling to me, kills it its death sentence for me grapple in a laggy match