UFC 229 Stat update

[Gion]

Re: UFC 229 Stat update

GSP is an A+ fighter Ferg is an A+ fighter etc. those that are “complete” deserve that ranking. Conor is lacking in many areas, and is truthfully very one dimensional. So for the third, maybe fourth time, I’ll repeat myself. Conor is a B+ fighter at best. Let me be “another kind of ridiculous”

So do you agree with Robert Whittaker and Cody Gardbrandt being A+ fighters? Last time I checked they weren't double legging good wrestlers and slapping on arm bars

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[RomeroXVII]

Re: UFC 229 Stat update

Who are those guys? If they have an upcoming fight, I will attempt to fix them (Lee is on the list but I have to wait until his fight in December.)

Thank you for not forgetting about Lee.

[RomeroXVII]

Re: UFC 229 Stat update

So do you agree with Robert Whittaker and Cody Gardbrandt being A+ fighters? Last time I checked they weren't double legging good wrestlers and slapping on arm bars

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Whittaker has stellar TD Defense, being a wrestler for his Country Australia and was supposed to represent them in the Commonwealth games but had to defend his title. He stopped shots from an Olympic Silver Medalist in Romero, shows great distance management with his TKD background, and overall has great proprioception like many other great fighters in the UFC.

Cody Garbrandt was a State Champ, State Finalist and NCHS All American in High School, who was given offers to wrestle D1 but chose to fight instead. His wrestling defense works to set up his offensive striking, hit a beautiful gator bacon (The Dylan Ness Special, 4x NCAA All American from Minnesota) on a well timed shot on Dominick Cruz, who was able to take down TJ Dillashaw momentarily, an D1 NCAA Qualifier who nearly placed at a tough weight in the NCAAs (Blood Round)

With the exception of TJ who has his number, Cody has show good precision and shot selection, good reactive head movement, diversity with his kicks, and stellar boxing in the pocket, leading to that memorable performance against Cruz who is considered one of the GOATS at 135 alongside TJ.

Whittaker has 5 wins by submission, so you can definitely see him sub people, Cody not so much, but he is one of the best at what he does, and the common thing is that they're extremely great with their base styles. A+ Fighters indeed.

[Gion]

Re: UFC 229 Stat update

Whittaker has stellar TD Defense, being a wrestler for his Country Australia and was supposed to represent them in the Commonwealth games but had to defend his title. He stopped shots from an Olympic Silver Medalist in Romero, shows great distance management with his TKD background, and overall has great proprioception like many other great fighters in the UFC.

Cody Garbrandt was a State Champ, State Finalist and NCHS All American in High School, who was given offers to wrestle D1 but chose to fight instead. His wrestling defense works to set up his offensive striking, hit a beautiful gator bacon (The Dylan Ness Special, 4x NCAA All American from Minnesota) on a well timed shot on Dominick Cruz, who was able to take down TJ Dillashaw momentarily, an D1 NCAA Qualifier who nearly placed at a tough weight in the NCAAs (Blood Round)

With the exception of TJ who has his number, Cody has show good precision and shot selection, good reactive head movement, diversity with his kicks, and stellar boxing in the pocket, leading to that memorable performance against Cruz who is considered one of the GOATS at 135 alongside TJ.

Whittaker has 5 wins by submission, so you can definitely see him sub people, Cody not so much, but he is one of the best at what he does, and the common thing is that they're extremely great with their base styles. A+ Fighters indeed.

My point was I think they're both deserving of A+ status. I knew cody was a great wrestler but I had no idea Robert had that background. Although lets be honest representing wrestling for Australia isn't big of an accomplishment lol.
We are talking solely offensive grappling because according to flacco stellar defensive grappling isn't enough. I listed two guys who are fantastic strikers that have not used effective offensive grappling against high level competition, like conor

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[RomeroXVII]

Re: UFC 229 Stat update

My point was I think they're both deserving of A+ status. I knew cody was a great wrestler but I had no idea Robert had that background. Although lets be honest representing wrestling for Australia isn't big of an accomplishment lol.
We are talking solely offensive grappling because according to flacco stellar defensive grappling isn't enough. I listed two guys who are fantastic strikers that have not used effective offensive grappling against high level competition, like conor

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Against Mendes who came on 10 days notice, he was struggling, and had it not been for a catastrophic error on Mendes' part going for the guillotine and not passing to Top Mount, we may be singing a different tool.

Please do not bring up the Holloway win because Holloway then isn't even remotely close to 30% of the man he is now and his grappling was never stellar. The best thing Conor had done was the X Guard Sweep against Diaz. Alvarez is primarily a brawler not a kind of wrestler that controls people like Frankie and Khabib for example, and his chain wrestling is lacking. Conor is great at stopping the initial shot with the right distance but like many other before him, chain wrestling gets it done. See- Cormier vs Oezdemir.

Conor was generally finishing guys within 2 rounds, so you never really saw any real offensive grappling where a guy was getting mauled, like what Lee did to Barboza, what Frankie did to Yair. His first line of defense is the best thing, the last time Conor took a shot on somebody, he got submitted lol.

[FlaccoNumba5]

Re: UFC 229 Stat update

So do you agree with Robert Whittaker and Cody Gardbrandt being A+ fighters? Last time I checked they weren't double legging good wrestlers and slapping on arm bars

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So Romero said everything I would’ve said to rebuttal your points and more, much much more actually. For the fifth time I’ll say McGregor is a B+ fighter at best. Quote me again and I’ll say it for the sixth. What are you really trying to get at here? My opinion will not change. I said what I said. The holes in his game are enormous, again he is very one dimensional too. It’s not like this is the first time he’s been exposed, this is a theme having bad/ suspect stamina and mid grappling. I don’t believe that deserves an A+ rating. (most of) those who currently have them (A+ ratings) deserve them. The A+ fighters in game are good to great nearly everywhere whereas I feel Conor just has it because he’s Conor. And yes, I do believe Whittaker and Cody are deserving of their A+ ratings.

[FlaccoNumba5]

Re: UFC 229 Stat update

Who are those guys? If they have an upcoming fight, I will attempt to fix them (Lee is on the list but I have to wait until his fight in December.)

Just wondering, was there any background to why damage was taken away from the cage slams?

[Gion]

Re: UFC 229 Stat update

Against Mendes who came on 10 days notice, he was struggling, and had it not been for a catastrophic error on Mendes' part going for the guillotine and not passing to Top Mount, we may be singing a different tool.

Please do not bring up the Holloway win because Holloway then isn't even remotely close to 30% of the man he is now and his grappling was never stellar. The best thing Conor had done was the X Guard Sweep against Diaz. Alvarez is primarily a brawler not a kind of wrestler that controls people like Frankie and Khabib for example, and his chain wrestling is lacking. Conor is great at stopping the initial shot with the right distance but like many other before him, chain wrestling gets it done. See- Cormier vs Oezdemir.

Conor was generally finishing guys within 2 rounds, so you never really saw any real offensive grappling where a guy was getting mauled, like what Lee did to Barboza, what Frankie did to Yair. His first line of defense is the best thing, the last time Conor took a shot on somebody, he got submitted lol.

People bring up the mendes short notice thing like it means something. Conor fought him with a partially torn ACL. have you seen the notorious movie? It was a serious problem. To go against literally the best wrestler in the division and still stuff takedowns is impressive.
I will bring up the Holloway win because my point was he isnt a useless grappler offensively, I'm not saying hes a great grappler. Max wasnt a white belt, but he was taken down and controlled with 0 problem, against a Conor who again torn his acl in the middle of the fight. Eddie has pretty good takedowns but i was pointing out conors offensive wrestling in that fight, the way he controlled the legs and mitigated the sweep eddie tried to pull on him, while landing ground and pound.
Effective chain wrestling without burning too much energy on the attempt requires a top of the chain wrestler. I never said Conor could defend multiple takedowns from a top of the chain wrestler. He can prevent several, and Is very good defensively off his back. I'm sure if many of our champions who are strikers fought against a top of the food chain chain wrestler, they'd too be taken down and controlled for some time of the fight

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[rabbitfistssaipailo]

Re: UFC 229 Stat update

Thank you for not forgetting about Lee.

@ Romero @alholbert ...non related but I just wanted to ask if a fighter has a level 4 or higher submission move ...what does that actually mean ...is it easier to pull off , harder to defend against or what exactly ?

I ask on account of Lee's RNC and ferg's d'arce choke .

P.S. has anyone of the devs ever thought of the von flu choke for ovince saint pearue ???

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[RomeroXVII]

Re: UFC 229 Stat update

People bring up the mendes short notice thing like it means something. Conor fought him with a partially torn ACL. have you seen the notorious movie? It was a serious problem. To go against literally the best wrestler in the division and still stuff takedowns is impressive.
I will bring up the Holloway win because my point was he isnt a useless grappler offensively, I'm not saying hes a great grappler. Max wasnt a white belt, but he was taken down and controlled with 0 problem, against a Conor who again torn his acl in the middle of the fight. Eddie has pretty good takedowns but i was pointing out conors offensive wrestling in that fight, the way he controlled the legs and mitigated the sweep eddie tried to pull on him, while landing ground and pound.
Effective chain wrestling without burning too much energy on the attempt requires a top of the chain wrestler. I never said Conor could defend multiple takedowns from a top of the chain wrestler. He can prevent several, and Is very good defensively off his back. I'm sure if many of our champions who are strikers fought against a top of the food chain chain wrestler, they'd too be taken down and controlled for some time of the fight

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One, if you're effectively chain wrestling, you're not going to expend as much energy than if you were out of position trying to fight your way back into position.

Wrestlers wrestle through torn LCLs, MCLs, ACLs, a lot of combat athletes tend to be hurt in some shape or form and fight through it. Yianni Diakomihalis torn his ACL and MCL in the quarter finals of the NCAAs and wrestled through it to become an NCAA Champ.
José Aldo outgrappled Chang Sung Jung with a broken foot, a man who has an extensive submission background and holds the only Twister in UFC History (Correct me if I'm wrong). That's impressive.
My case being, these athletes are special and should definitely be commended for when they persevere through adversity.

It means something because there is a huge difference between in fight shape and just being in 'shape'.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.mmamania.com/platform/amp/2016/9/29/13109478/max-holloway-message-for-stupid-jackasses-who-think-conor-mcgregor-fought-him-with-torn-acl-mma

On Holloway's statement on this, I remember he was relatively green and he wasn't exactly the best guy off the back. At the time he was a good striker with some tricks. But he looked like a child in comparison to the size of Conor in that fight. There was no grappling threat from Holloway to add on to that as well.

IMO I really doubt that Conor tore his ACL before the Mendes fight if anything, he sprained it, I saw the movie and he did not look the same way like he did in the Holloway fight. After Diakomihalis won NCAAs he was out for a crazy amount of time. We saw what happened with Ferguson when he tore his ACL and he was out for quite some time understandably so. He was out after the Holloway fight for 9 months because it happened there.

How conveniently after the Mendes fight, Kavanagh reiterated that the knee is now fully healed and that no surgery was needed. He ain't look like he was hurt in the Mendes fight. He definitely did in the Holloway fight for a split moment when he passed into Side Control.

Conor is a BJJ Brown Belt, but when somebody is rocked and already concussed from a left from hell, it'd be pretty easy to control them too. And that's just not for Conor, that's how I view it for anybody that shows 'amazing' control even though it's pretty obvious that the dude is on his way out. Ferguson is one of the few dudes out there that I've seen get rocked bad, and still manage to use the Jiu Jitsu fundamentals to stay in the fight. Aldo managed to survive a hellacious beating as long as he could from Holloway after getting dropped and even defended against a RNC while rocked, that's impressive but the finish was imminent. Eddie got served the hands of the Irish Pimp, how he remained in there was due to being too tough for his own good.


TL;DR I won't go as far as Flacco and say he's a B +, because I do acknowledge the toughness from McGregor (when he's fresh anyways), BJJ Knowledge and his bravado, along with his precise striking, but MMA Pundits had been saying this about Conor for a long time: You cannot over commit against McGregor and you cannot be hesitant against him, and if he was put against an IN SHAPE Wrestler (something Alvarez, despite having a wrestling background, does not really embrace as much as he loves to brawl)

I think, Kevin Lee, Ferguson, RDA (not dying from a bad weight cut), would give him an L as well.

[Kingslayer04]

Re: UFC 229 Stat update

One, if you're effectively chain wrestling, you're not going to expend as much energy than if you were out of position trying to fight your way back into position.

Wrestlers wrestle through torn LCLs, MCLs, ACLs, a lot of combat athletes tend to be hurt in some shape or form and fight through it. Yianni Diakomihalis torn his ACL and MCL in the quarter finals of the NCAAs and wrestled through it to become an NCAA Champ.
José Aldo outgrappled Chang Sung Jung with a broken foot, a man who has an extensive submission background and holds the only Twister in UFC History (Correct me if I'm wrong). That's impressive.
My case being, these athletes are special and should definitely be commended for when they persevere through adversity.

It means something because there is a huge difference between in fight shape and just being in 'shape'.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.mmamania.com/platform/amp/2016/9/29/13109478/max-holloway-message-for-stupid-jackasses-who-think-conor-mcgregor-fought-him-with-torn-acl-mma

On Holloway's statement on this, I remember he was relatively green and he wasn't exactly the best guy off the back. At the time he was a good striker with some tricks. But he looked like a child in comparison to the size of Conor in that fight. There was no grappling threat from Holloway to add on to that as well.

IMO I really doubt that Conor tore his ACL before the Mendes fight if anything, he sprained it, I saw the movie and he did not look the same way like he did in the Holloway fight. After Diakomihalis won NCAAs he was out for a crazy amount of time. We saw what happened with Ferguson when he tore his ACL and he was out for quite some time understandably so. He was out after the Holloway fight for 9 months because it happened there.

How conveniently after the Mendes fight, Kavanagh reiterated that the knee is now fully healed and that no surgery was needed. He ain't look like he was hurt in the Mendes fight. He definitely did in the Holloway fight for a split moment when he passed into Side Control.

Conor is a BJJ Brown Belt, but when somebody is rocked and already concussed from a left from hell, it'd be pretty easy to control them too. And that's just not for Conor, that's how I view it for anybody that shows 'amazing' control even though it's pretty obvious that the dude is on his way out. Ferguson is one of the few dudes out there that I've seen get rocked bad, and still manage to use the Jiu Jitsu fundamentals to stay in the fight. Aldo managed to survive a hellacious beating as long as he could from Holloway after getting dropped and even defended against a RNC while rocked, that's impressive but the finish was imminent. Eddie got served the hands of the Irish Pimp, how he remained in there was due to being too tough for his own good.


TL;DR I won't go as far as Flacco and say he's a B +, because I do acknowledge the toughness from McGregor (when he's fresh anyways), BJJ Knowledge and his bravado, along with his precise striking, but MMA Pundits had been saying this about Conor for a long time: You cannot over commit against McGregor and you cannot be hesitant against him, and if he was put against an IN SHAPE Wrestler (something Alvarez, despite having a wrestling background, does not really embrace as much as he loves to brawl)

I think, Kevin Lee, Ferguson, RDA (not dying from a bad weight cut), would give him an L as well.

I wonder how Gaethje would fare. Obviously he's hittable, a brawler, McGregor loves those, but he can take a beating (yeah I know, Eddie and Poirier are also tough) and he's going to bring it. There will be no hesitance like with Alvarez, pure relentless pressure. Plus he has a wrestling background. And he'll go to the legs hard, real hard.

I also wonder about Barboza. Obviously not a better boxer than Conor but he's a distance fighter and a kicker and it would be pretty interesting to see how that goes. I'd say a McGregor win but fights are not won on paper. Plus, I'd be interested to see what happens, not only who wins.

[metodman39]

Re: UFC 229 Stat update

^^ I wanna see Gaethje against Khabib.

i wanna see TunerSet

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[aholbert32]

Re: UFC 229 Stat update

Just wondering, was there any background to why damage was taken away from the cage slams?

I have no idea.

[Gion]

Re: UFC 229 Stat update

One, if you're effectively chain wrestling, you're not going to expend as much energy than if you were out of position trying to fight your way back into position.

Wrestlers wrestle through torn LCLs, MCLs, ACLs, a lot of combat athletes tend to be hurt in some shape or form and fight through it. Yianni Diakomihalis torn his ACL and MCL in the quarter finals of the NCAAs and wrestled through it to become an NCAA Champ.
José Aldo outgrappled Chang Sung Jung with a broken foot, a man who has an extensive submission background and holds the only Twister in UFC History (Correct me if I'm wrong). That's impressive.
My case being, these athletes are special and should definitely be commended for when they persevere through adversity.

It means something because there is a huge difference between in fight shape and just being in 'shape'.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.mmamania.com/platform/amp/2016/9/29/13109478/max-holloway-message-for-stupid-jackasses-who-think-conor-mcgregor-fought-him-with-torn-acl-mma

On Holloway's statement on this, I remember he was relatively green and he wasn't exactly the best guy off the back. At the time he was a good striker with some tricks. But he looked like a child in comparison to the size of Conor in that fight. There was no grappling threat from Holloway to add on to that as well.

IMO I really doubt that Conor tore his ACL before the Mendes fight if anything, he sprained it, I saw the movie and he did not look the same way like he did in the Holloway fight. After Diakomihalis won NCAAs he was out for a crazy amount of time. We saw what happened with Ferguson when he tore his ACL and he was out for quite some time understandably so. He was out after the Holloway fight for 9 months because it happened there.

How conveniently after the Mendes fight, Kavanagh reiterated that the knee is now fully healed and that no surgery was needed. He ain't look like he was hurt in the Mendes fight. He definitely did in the Holloway fight for a split moment when he passed into Side Control.

Conor is a BJJ Brown Belt, but when somebody is rocked and already concussed from a left from hell, it'd be pretty easy to control them too. And that's just not for Conor, that's how I view it for anybody that shows 'amazing' control even though it's pretty obvious that the dude is on his way out. Ferguson is one of the few dudes out there that I've seen get rocked bad, and still manage to use the Jiu Jitsu fundamentals to stay in the fight. Aldo managed to survive a hellacious beating as long as he could from Holloway after getting dropped and even defended against a RNC while rocked, that's impressive but the finish was imminent. Eddie got served the hands of the Irish Pimp, how he remained in there was due to being too tough for his own good.


TL;DR I won't go as far as Flacco and say he's a B +, because I do acknowledge the toughness from McGregor (when he's fresh anyways), BJJ Knowledge and his bravado, along with his precise striking, but MMA Pundits had been saying this about Conor for a long time: You cannot over commit against McGregor and you cannot be hesitant against him, and if he was put against an IN SHAPE Wrestler (something Alvarez, despite having a wrestling background, does not really embrace as much as he loves to brawl)

I think, Kevin Lee, Ferguson, RDA (not dying from a bad weight cut), would give him an L as well.

I think you just reiterated what I said about chain wrestling. We both believe chain wrestling requires less energy if done effectively. I'm saying when chain wrestling is being denied again and again shot after shot, you're going to be damn exhausted.
Ok I think we need to get on the same page for ACL tears. I'm not claiming he fought mendes with his ACL hanging off the bone. He had a tear, but not so bad you'd need surgery for. Also some people can heal remarkably quickly. Ferguson just healed in 6 months with a full ACL tear, that's incredible. Max can believe all he wants, Conor legit tore it in that fight and took an almost 2 year layoff because of it. I really dont think Conor had the size advantage you claim when he fought holloway. Back then Conor was quite lanky and didn't have the muscle mass, being a very young fighter.
I can also see RDA and Lee beating Conor, not so sure about tony though. I love that crazy weird dude but he just gets hit far too often, being hittable against Conor is just bad news20181024_114956.jpg

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[RomeroXVII]

Re: UFC 229 Stat update

I have no idea.

Because people would get somebody's head health low, immediately try to get them against the cage and knock them out with the Cage TD. I think there should be just a little bit of damage.

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