Immersive, feasible grappling mechanic with the left stick

[Kingslayer04]

Re: Immersive yet feasible grappling mechanic with the left stick

So in your idea there's still going to be filling circles? I really hope the ground game is fast and fluid, in all respects - no more clunkiness, no more waiting until the game adjusts to the ground game before you can strike, none of that. Oh, on that note, what, in your opinion, should the game keep and what should it get rid of completely when it comes to the ground game?

[Gion]

Re: Immersive yet feasible grappling mechanic with the left stick

So in your idea there's still going to be filling circles? I really hope the ground game is fast and fluid, in all respects - no more clunkiness, no more waiting until the game adjusts to the ground game before you can strike, none of that. Oh, on that note, what, in your opinion, should the game keep and what should it get rid of completely when it comes to the ground game?

Yea 100% I want the ea ufc grappling system intact. I've said it before, this system has the highest ceiling of all MMA grappling systems, it only gets better with time and additions. I love the contextual and momentum transitions I want all of that to stay. Ground and pound could be more seamless, like how in stacked guard you can just send a barrage of strikes to the head one after another I want regular GnP to feel like that. Also I'd like reversals to be optional. I'd rather keep someone in my guard with Cowboy rather than reverse them with no say in the matter. Of course I'd love wall walking to be a thing, and with that, khabibs wrist control off of get ups or wall walking. And for the love of god can we get knees for back side position

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[Kingslayer04]

Re: Immersive yet feasible grappling mechanic with the left stick

Yea 100% I want the ea ufc grappling system intact. I've said it before, this system has the highest ceiling of all MMA grappling systems, it only gets better with time and additions. I love the contextual and momentum transitions I want all of that to stay. Ground and pound could be more seamless, like how in stacked guard you can just send a barrage of strikes to the head one after another I want regular GnP to feel like that. Also I'd like reversals to be optional. I'd rather keep someone in my guard with Cowboy rather than reverse them with no say in the matter. Of course I'd love wall walking to be a thing, and with that, khabibs wrist control off of get ups or wall walking. And for the love of god can we get knees for back side position

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Reversals should absolutely be optional. I just hope it's all fluid and seamless.

[RetractedMonkey]

Re: Immersive yet feasible grappling mechanic with the left stick

Grappling with the right stick will be the same as our current system, these ideas are meant to be fused with the current system not replace it. So holding would be similar to the same action as holding in mount, so if you dont want your opponent to posture up in side control, you would hold. Want to stifle your opponents positional movement? Hold. I would like it to cost perm stamina so you can regain short term stamina. I'd like holding to be transitional though. You can deny attempts to get out of hold at the cost of long term stamina, to replenish short term stamina so you're giving something of value in exchange for not getting instantly submitted or smashed into the canvas. Any dom stamina advantage would obviously mean easier breaks from the hold and the hold can be denied.

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I don't think you understand my perspective change to your system. The right stick is still exclusively to use for the circle filling transitions, modifiers are all intact. The left stick moves the fighters around on the ground. The D-Pad causes a fighter to hold a specific area on the other player's body.

You would be able to do most of these things simultaneously. You can strike or transition using the right stick while holding a body part with the D-Pad. For example, let's say a player has a great half guard game where they isolate the wrist for a kimura by pressing the D-Pad to the left. The fighter on bottom knows this is the top's preferred move. Therefore the bottom player presses left on the D-Pad first in order to block (or make harder for) the player to isolate that arm. Ergo, the top player is forced to make another positional advancement away from his plan A in order to advance with the right stick or to open up that pathway by making the bottom player give up the hold.

You can still transition with the right stick while holding the D-Pad. The D-Pad just gives you four (five if you count not holding it) right stick position trees to climb from one position (half guard).

Let's say the top fighter successfully tricks the bottom player into giving up the hold and then isolates that arm. The top player can now advance to a kimura with the LT modifier, transition to mount by using the right stick up while simultaneously holding the D-Pad direction, or strike the body with the lower hand while isolating the arm in that sub position.

In order to get out of the position, the bottom player can either force his way out without setting it up if he sees an opening or he is forced to make two transitions (one to break the isolation and two to shrimp back into full guard).

The bottom player gets priority in regards to defense. Meaning if the top player passes guard into half guard, the bottom player can immediately guard his arm before the top can isolate it. But, if the top player does isolate it, the bottom player loses priority and can no longer use the D-Pad for a sub-position until the top player lets go or is escaped from.

This creates multiple scenarios where both the bottom and top player can try to trick and outmaneuver each other in order to advance position. Effectively destroying the static positions we have now while still maintaining the core principles of the current ground system. The devs won't have to start from scratch. They can make an immersive and complex system building off of what we already have. So casuals can still use the same basic transition scheme we have now and the guys that learn the ins-and-outs will know the sub-position directions.

Since there will be so many, even the best players will likely only focus on mastering a few different sub-position setups, creating a system that inherently promotes originality and diversity in gameplans. Think about it. I only described one setup scenario for one position based on one SUB-position out of four. Multiply that by however many positions are added. The devs can do this as long as they develop the ground with as much detail as they have with rebuilding the striking system in UFC 3. And they don't even need to rebuild entirely.

[Kingslayer04]

Re: Immersive yet feasible grappling mechanic with the left stick

I don't think you understand my perspective change to your system. The right stick is still exclusively to use for the circle filling transitions, modifiers are all intact. The left stick moves the fighters around on the ground. The D-Pad causes a fighter to hold a specific area on the other player's body.

You would be able to do most of these things simultaneously. You can strike or transition using the right stick while holding a body part with the D-Pad. For example, let's say a player has a great half guard game where they isolate the wrist for a kimura by pressing the D-Pad to the left. The fighter on bottom knows this is the top's preferred move. Therefore the bottom player presses left on the D-Pad first in order to block (or make harder for) the player to isolate that arm. Ergo, the top player is forced to make another positional advancement away from his plan A in order to advance with the right stick or to open up that pathway by making the bottom player give up the hold.

You can still transition with the right stick while holding the D-Pad. The D-Pad just gives you four (five if you count not holding it) right stick position trees to climb from one position (half guard).

Let's say the top fighter successfully tricks the bottom player into giving up the hold and then isolates that arm. The top player can now advance to a kimura with the LT modifier, transition to mount by using the right stick up while simultaneously holding the D-Pad direction, or strike the body with the lower hand while isolating the arm in that sub position.

In order to get out of the position, the bottom player can either force his way out without setting it up if he sees an opening or he is forced to make two transitions (one to break the isolation and two to shrimp back into full guard).

The bottom player gets priority in regards to defense. Meaning if the top player passes guard into half guard, the bottom player can immediately guard his arm before the top can isolate it. But, if the top player does isolate it, the bottom player loses priority and can no longer use the D-Pad for a sub-position until the top player lets go or is escaped from.

This creates multiple scenarios where both the bottom and top player can try to trick and outmaneuver each other in order to advance position. Effectively destroying the static positions we have now while still maintaining the core principles of the current ground system. The devs won't have to start from scratch. They can make an immersive and complex system building off of what we already have. So casuals can still use the same basic transition scheme we have now and the guys that learn the ins-and-outs will know the sub-position directions.

Since there will be so many, even the best players will likely only focus on mastering a few different sub-position setups, creating a system that inherently promotes originality and diversity in gameplans. Think about it. I only described one setup scenario for one position based on one SUB-position out of four. Multiply that by however many positions are added. The devs can do this as long as they develop the ground with as much detail as they have with rebuilding the striking system in UFC 3. And they don't even need to rebuild entirely.

The way you see it, should there be combinations featuring the D-Pad and Left Stick and the shoulder buttons (not just L2 for sub) and if yes, what will those do?

[Gion]

Re: Immersive yet feasible grappling mechanic with the left stick

I don't think you understand my perspective change to your system. The right stick is still exclusively to use for the circle filling transitions, modifiers are all intact. The left stick moves the fighters around on the ground. The D-Pad causes a fighter to hold a specific area on the other player's body.

You would be able to do most of these things simultaneously. You can strike or transition using the right stick while holding a body part with the D-Pad. For example, let's say a player has a great half guard game where they isolate the wrist for a kimura by pressing the D-Pad to the left. The fighter on bottom knows this is the top's preferred move. Therefore the bottom player presses left on the D-Pad first in order to block (or make harder for) the player to isolate that arm. Ergo, the top player is forced to make another positional advancement away from his plan A in order to advance with the right stick or to open up that pathway by making the bottom player give up the hold.

You can still transition with the right stick while holding the D-Pad. The D-Pad just gives you four (five if you count not holding it) right stick position trees to climb from one position (half guard).

Let's say the top fighter successfully tricks the bottom player into giving up the hold and then isolates that arm. The top player can now advance to a kimura with the LT modifier, transition to mount by using the right stick up while simultaneously holding the D-Pad direction, or strike the body with the lower hand while isolating the arm in that sub position.

In order to get out of the position, the bottom player can either force his way out without setting it up if he sees an opening or he is forced to make two transitions (one to break the isolation and two to shrimp back into full guard).

The bottom player gets priority in regards to defense. Meaning if the top player passes guard into half guard, the bottom player can immediately guard his arm before the top can isolate it. But, if the top player does isolate it, the bottom player loses priority and can no longer use the D-Pad for a sub-position until the top player lets go or is escaped from.

This creates multiple scenarios where both the bottom and top player can try to trick and outmaneuver each other in order to advance position. Effectively destroying the static positions we have now while still maintaining the core principles of the current ground system. The devs won't have to start from scratch. They can make an immersive and complex system building off of what we already have. So casuals can still use the same basic transition scheme we have now and the guys that learn the ins-and-outs will know the sub-position directions.

Since there will be so many, even the best players will likely only focus on mastering a few different sub-position setups, creating a system that inherently promotes originality and diversity in gameplans. Think about it. I only described one setup scenario for one position based on one SUB-position out of four. Multiply that by however many positions are added. The devs can do this as long as they develop the ground with as much detail as they have with rebuilding the striking system in UFC 3. And they don't even need to rebuild entirely.

Ohhh ok I understand, miscommunication. Im really liking the sound of these ideas. Grappling would become a world of it's own with different styles and techniques. ****, I wouldn't even strike anymore tbh. Now imagine slapping on a free flowing transition based submission system on top of that. EBI tournaments galore

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[Haz_____]

Re: Immersive yet feasible grappling mechanic with the left stick

Great ideas. Just get rid of the filling circle, or any filling bars or meters. The mechanic itself is fine I suppose, just render it 'under the hood'. The visual clutter when grappling really destroys the immersion.

[Gion]

Re: Immersive yet feasible grappling mechanic with the left stick

Great ideas. Just get rid of the filling circle, or any filling bars or meters. The mechanic itself is fine I suppose, just render it 'under the hood'. The visual clutter when grappling really destroys the immersion.

Do you have a problem with the UI or the bar filling system? You can turn the UI off in the options I believe

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[RetractedMonkey]

Re: Immersive yet feasible grappling mechanic with the left stick

Great ideas. Just get rid of the filling circle, or any filling bars or meters. The mechanic itself is fine I suppose, just render it 'under the hood'. The visual clutter when grappling really destroys the immersion.

Hey, I actually agree with you here. The circle is a way to show you how close you are to achieving a positional change substituting for your sense of touch in real life. This can be erased by having the animations tell you instead. If you're going to pass guard imminently, your character should be actively slicing the knee through, not holding their hands on the knee for a second while the circle fills.

In essence, it is the same system though.

[FCB x Finlay]

Re: Immersive yet feasible grappling mechanic with the left stick

Hey, I actually agree with you here. The circle is a way to show you how close you are to achieving a positional change substituting for your sense of touch in real life. This can be erased by having the animations tell you instead. If you're going to pass guard imminently, your character should be actively slicing the knee through, not holding their hands on the knee for a second while the circle fills.

In essence, it is the same system though.

Making the transitions fluid like this would go a long way. It adds the illusion of pace to the game.

This is where i think minor transitions would be great as it would speed up the bar filling mechanism, and basically replace feints.

[FCB x Finlay]

Re: Immersive, feasible grappling mechanic with the left stick

Imo the left stick should be streamlined to only be full body movements, ie moving, lunges etc. The right stick should be the more focused one, be focussed on smaller movements like in the grappling and headmovement.

Left stick should be for gets ups, strambles and takedowns. On the bottom it would be about where your having your weight. This would evolve takedowns and incorporate chain wrestling. That incombinatiom of minor transitions with the right stick, major would be right stick plus lb.

My controo scheme would be.

For LS
LT+RT+LS for Takedowns
RT+LS for Scrambles
RT+LB+LB for special scrambles, ie rolls and reversals
LS for get ups.

For RS
RS for minor
LB+RS for major
LB+RB+RS for special
RT+RS for blocks
RT+LB+RS for reversals
RT+RS for arm traps
LT+RS for subs

[HereticFighter]

Re: Immersive yet feasible grappling mechanic with the left stick

Hey, I actually agree with you here. The circle is a way to show you how close you are to achieving a positional change substituting for your sense of touch in real life. This can be erased by having the animations tell you instead. If you're going to pass guard imminently, your character should be actively slicing the knee through, not holding their hands on the knee for a second while the circle fills.

In essence, it is the same system though.

i hate the circles too, but the problem with removing them completely is, that currently its too unresponsive to rely on animations alone. But even more than that, when there is GA involved, sometimes the meters fill before the animation even starts, **** sometimes they fill completely with enough GA before you ever SEE it. So as the person performing the transition, its tough to tell when the game registers your transitional inputs based on animations alone.

On ps4 there seems to be so many little delays on the ground before you can do anything, I find the HUD helpful just to know when the delay is done.

[RetractedMonkey]

Re: Immersive yet feasible grappling mechanic with the left stick

i hate the circles too, but the problem with removing them completely is, that currently its too unresponsive to rely on animations alone. But even more than that, when there is GA involved, sometimes the meters fill before the animation even starts, **** sometimes they fill completely with enough GA before you ever SEE it. So as the person performing the transition, its tough to tell when the game registers your transitional inputs based on animations alone.

On ps4 there seems to be so many little delays on the ground before you can do anything, I find the HUD helpful just to know when the delay is done.

Right, but we're talking about UFC4 where, presumably, they would be able to fix these issues.

[1212headkick]

Re: Immersive, feasible grappling mechanic with the left stick

I think without the grey area being improved as well along with there being no dynamic scramble mechanic is most important for me as well as an authentic clinch and new positions. The biggest let down for me was there wasnt one new position added. Not even cage seated. Id of rather had that then cage takedowns. People dont like lay and pray because it doesnt look aesthetically pleasing. People wanted more from the grappling then the striking. That would of made it feel like a complete game in my eyes. We also need to have freeflowing combos and the choice between fast or hard strikes along with different animations to add dynamics for the same strike. Its realistic and must be included. I hate that instead of fast or hard modifiers(which ufc 2 and ud3 had) were forced to only throw overhands. L1 should be for fast strikes r1 for power strikes

[Irish0331]

Re: Immersive, feasible grappling mechanic with the left stick

I really like this idea. You have my vote OP.